Was Adam Made Holy

[dcontroversal]

That is out of context, when Jesus said that he was speaking about earth lightning falling from the sky the first heaven the earths atmosphere why because he said see he had given them power to tread on snakes and scorpions and the power of the enemy, he saw satan power fall like lighting meaning real quick.

Luke 10
19See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you.

Not hardly....the statement stands ALONE......WOW MAN.....how can you deny that factual truth....Jesus has always been and he, WHILE IN HEAVEN ON HIS THRONE watched clearly as Satan was cast out AND JUST LIKE LIGHTNING fell to the earth...

It is impossible to engage people that flat reject the obvious

 

[dcontroversal]

Have you studied how much power is in lightning, it contains roughly one billion (1,000,000,000) joules of energy that’s a lot of power that fell and was put to the ground rendered powerless.

AS LIGHTNING use your head man!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Dino246
Please consider that Garee may be new to Christianity, at least he is trying to discuss.
Please don't speak about fantasy, allow people to discuss and learn, thank you.
You are correct by the way in your doctrine and I appreciate your input otherwise.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

God is Holy.

that's correct

maybe stop there

 

[PS]

that's correct

maybe stop there

So you do not believe man has the freewill to accept or reject God?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

So you do not believe man has the freewill to accept or reject God?

So you do not believe man has the freewill to accept or reject God?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I’ve read accounts where folks think Adam and Eve would have lived for ever there’s nothing that says that was the case in the garden just the opposite is stated, they must not eat of the tree of life for they would have lived for ever sounds pretty much like they had a lifespan in the garden regardless of eating the forbidden fruit or not

I am one of those "folks" who believe Adam and Eve could have lived forever if they had not sinned.

Romans 5:12 tells us Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin ...

Before sin entered into the world, there was no death.

Because of what is written in Rom 5:12, I believe that if Adam had not sinned, he would not have died and he would have continued living.


You know, we will have new bodies in new heaven and new earth. Also, in new heaven and new earth, there will be a street and the tree of life (Rev 22:2). I believe I will live forever in new heaven new earth ... do you believe you will live forever in new heaven new earth?

If so, why do you not believe God would have formed, made, created Adam/Eve to live forever.

God knowing Adam would sin, and having a plan in place to redeem mankind, is not the same as Adam not having been formed, made, created by God to live forever.

 

[PS]

I am one of those "folks" who believe Adam and Eve could have lived forever if they had not sinned.

Romans 5:12 tells us Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin ...

Before sin entered into the world, there was no death.

Because of what is written in Rom 5:12, I believe that if Adam had not sinned, he would not have died and he would have continued living.


You know, we will have new bodies in new heaven and new earth. Also, in new heaven and new earth, there will be a street and the tree of life (Rev 22:2). I believe I will live forever in new heaven new earth ... do you believe you will live forever in new heaven new earth?

If so, why do you not believe God would have formed, made, created Adam/Eve to live forever.

God knowing Adam would sin, and having a plan in place to redeem mankind, is not the same as Adam not having been formed, made, created by God to live forever.

Romans 12 is talking about eternal life in heaven, not on earth. Our mortal bodies will all return to the earth, dust to dust and ashes to ashes.

 

[PS]

So you do not believe man has the freewill to accept or reject God?

Mankind has free will as demonstrated by Adam and Eve who disobeyed God and were turned out of the garden (heaven).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Romans 12 is talking about eternal life in heaven, not on earth. Our mortal bodies will all return to the earth, dust to dust and ashes to ashes.

Romans 12?

I mentioned Romans 5:12 and Revelation 22.

Our enternal life will be lived out in New Jerusalem ... a city (Rev 21:16). In this city, the nations of them that are saved will walk (Rev 21:24), the gates will not be shut (Rev 21:25), the water of life will proceed out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the midst of the street (Rev 22:1-2), on either side of the river the tree of live which bare twelve manner of fruits and the leaves of the tree for the healing of the nations (Rev 22:2).


You think the city, the gates, the street, the nations will all be in heaven?

If that's the case, why is there a need for a new heaven and a new earth?

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth


Why not just the heaven if eternal life is only in heaven?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Mankind has free will as demonstrated by Adam and Eve who disobeyed God and were turned out of the garden (heaven).

I believe the garden of Eden was on the earth:

Genesis 2:

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


I believe the ground is on the earth.

And check out Gen 2:10-14 where God tells us about the rivers and the land. I recogniz Ethiopa, Assyria, and Euphrates. I also recognize gold, onyx. These are all references to earthly things (imho).

 

[PS]

I believe the garden of Eden was on the earth:

Genesis 2:

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


I believe the ground is on the earth.

And check out Gen 2:10-14 where God tells us about the rivers and the land. I recogniz Ethiopa, Assyria, and Euphrates. I also recognize gold, onyx. These are all references to earthly things (imho).

Yes, the Garden of Eden was an earthly paradise, but the lesson to be learnt is that the wicked are far from God and will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[dcontroversal]

God began to reconcile man/the world unto himself before he cast down creation....dwell on that! What transpired in the garden was destiny!

 

[ieuan]

Jamon said:

The notion God created angels who will do nothing but obey like angel robots is taking the elect predestination thing way to far. the was a war in heaven God didn’t tell angels to wear a vest and blow them selves up yea extreme view but that is the war lord mentality control freak do everything I say.

God did indeed make, or better to say created angels, that would stay loyal.
If I could give you an earthly metapor, say for instance would a baby reject
a mother under normal circumstances, hate his/her mother? So has God
made the angels, not robots - not mechanical object that follow a pre-determined path
but rational beings, without flesh, without fleshly temptations, spiritual ethereal creatures
who love to abide by His goodness - not able to entertain any stain of wickedness in case
they offend Him, the one they glorify in; the one their whole existance is wrapped up in
just to be in His presence is their very reason for being. Such is their relationship to their
creator.

Elect men however are constantly tempted by divers lusts of the flesh, and men very
often fail, even the elect of God fail as Adam fell. Although Adam fell and through him
the whole of creation nevertheless Adam was an ancestor of Christ displaying God's
mercy to His elect. Don't be afraid of the word 'elect' it is a glorious word because it
indicates that we are chosen, not for any special reason in us but simply to display
His awesome power, His unlimited mercy, and enduring love.

See how Paul refers to these angelic creatures as being the 3rd in holiness to God.

1Tim 5: I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels,
to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

 

[posthuman]

Mankind has free will as demonstrated by Adam and Eve who disobeyed God and were turned out of the garden (heaven).

Even earlier than that,

Genesis 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;

"freely eat" - this implies Adam has will and agency to choose what he might eat in the garden. He doesn't have to sin in order to demonstrate that he truly lives - tho I believe the subtext of how Satan deceives Woman includes an implicit argument that she does not really have life unless she, like him, defies God.

 

[ieuan]

Dino246 said:

That question is best directed to PS, who made the assertion in the post #9

5.

I checked up on post#95 and I cannot see PS saying such a thing.

'All flesh sinned ' refers to mankind with the exception of one man, the perfect man, perfect God and truly man.
I am sure PS did not mean in any way to refer to our Lord.

Please exercise wisdom in your posts, gentleness so we can win a man to correct understanding of doctrine.
Please do not assign to anyone wickedness unless it is obvious, but even then deliberate the discussion
without personal assault. Even if we have had vile communication in the past, let us arm ourselves with the
righteousness of Christ Jesus in our deliberations. If we cannot conduct ourselves properly - if we snap
and tear at each other as the world does what good are we, we are no better than those dogs that licked
up the blood of Ahab from his chariot.

If anyone says that Jesus even thought of sinning I would report him.

 

[ieuan]

Dcontrversial said:

AS LIGHTNING use your head man!

Perhaps tone the attitude down a tad brother?

 

[ieuan]

Dino246 said post#71:
something about hogwash.

Perhaps tone the attitude down a tad brother?

 

[pottersclay]

Questions asked in my last thread "One Talent" were as the title
Was Adam made Holy and did he live there in Holiness
We know Adam fell, but did he live in holiness before his fall.

Request: In replying please do not attack personally or use extreme language
Please do not bring up hurts of the past with other members, leave bitterness
at the door. And for those with axes to grind, please focus on the discussion.

Remember if you bring up law then your answers and questions should reflect
that we are to love one another perfectly as God loves us.

I suppose you can say that Adam was holy. Depending on the definition. In terms of a one and only he was exclusively created.
Formed by the hands of God out of the dust of the earth, God breathed life into his nostrils, placed in the garden given the task of it's care taker and to name the creatures in it.
Did he remain holy after the fall? I would say yes again depending on the definition. We learn that his son's offered up sacrifice or offerings to the Lord. We also learn that there was one excepted and one not. Ouestion is who taught his sons of this practice? I believe it was Adam.
Scriptures shows us that Jesus is compared to Adam as the second Adam. Although Jesus was not created but was formed exclusively of the Holy Spirit and placed in the womb of a virgin.
Given the task to save the world.
There is much to glean from these scriptures but one thing is clear. The intervention to save man from the stain of sin had to come from above a perfect and holy one. Pointing to Jesus the Christ and him alone.

 

[PS]

Romans 12?

I mentioned Romans 5:12 and Revelation 22.

Our enternal life will be lived out in New Jerusalem ... a city (Rev 21:16). In this city, the nations of them that are saved will walk (Rev 21:24), the gates will not be shut (Rev 21:25), the water of life will proceed out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the midst of the street (Rev 22:1-2), on either side of the river the tree of live which bare twelve manner of fruits and the leaves of the tree for the healing of the nations (Rev 22:2).


You think the city, the gates, the street, the nations will all be in heaven?

If that's the case, why is there a need for a new heaven and a new earth?

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth


Why not just the heaven if eternal life is only in heaven?

I have to admit to consulting the "Believers Bible Commentary," I think the first two paragraphs answer your question?

REV 21:1 There is a question whether chapters 21 and 22 deal with the Eternal State alone or whether they alternate between the Millennium and the Eternal State. Since the Millennium and eternity are similar in many ways, it is not surprising if they seem to merge at times in the writings of the Apostle John.

Here the Eternal State is called a new heaven and a new earth. These are not to be confused with the new heaven and earth described in Isa_65:17-25. There the Millennium is in view, because sin and death are still present. These will be completely excluded from the Eternal State.

21:2 John sees the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. The fact that it is never said to land on the earth leads some to see it as hovering over the new earth. The fact that the names of the tribes of Israel are on the gates indicates that redeemed Israel will have access to the city, even if they are not part of the church itself. The distinction between the church (the Bride, the Lamb's Wife, v. 9), Israel (v. 12), and the Gentile nations (v. 24) is maintained throughout.

Rev 21:15, 16 With a gold measuring rod, the angel determined that the city was approximately twelve thousand furlongs (1400-1500 miles) in length, breadth, and height. Whether shaped like a cube or a pyramid, it extended far beyond the bounds of restored Israel.

REV 21:22, 23 Certain things are missing from the city. No temple is necessary because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are there. There is no sun or moon because the glory of God illuminates it, and the Lamb is the lamp.
21:24 Gentile nations will enjoy its beauty, and the kings of the earth will come with their tribute to the Lord.
21:25 There are no closed gates because there is perfect security and freedom of access. There is no night there; it is a land of fadeless day.

22:1, 2 A pure river of water of life flows from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street. On either side of the river grows the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, no longer forbidden. This suggests God's ceaseless provision for every season. The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations is a figurative way of saying that they will enjoy perpetual health.