Was Paul Really A False Apostle?

[aMessianic]

if paul is a false prophet then how this things possible
how can paul cast out demons in the name of jesus then?
how can paul heal the people in the name jesus

Matthew 24:24.

 

[aMessianic]

Paul did in the Scriptures.

Apostle = one sent by Christ.

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:​

I suppose that Paul was not sent by Christ?

Hey, brother, I have some letters here that I wrote ... it says a couple of times too, "hear aMessianic, mine apostle". Oh, and my associate (let's call him "Luke") is writing a book "The Acts of aMessianic" with an account of my encounter.

Will you believe on faith alone?
Or will you test me according to my doctrines and how they match up (or don't match up) with what Messiah taught?

 

[aMessianic]

Christ taught the law of God, and Paul followed Christ. So Paul also, taught the law.

Your conclusion is based on a premise which I reject.

Christ did not say follow the old blood covenant, like circumcision of the foreskin. The circumcision of today is a spiritual one of the heart, meaning a Christians love for God. This is written even in the old testament.

Do you believe Messiah was circumcised? Are we not called to follow His example?

Paul is repeating verse two , that every person that is circumcised for a religious purpose, he is required to keep every last word of the law, and he/she will be judged by them all. When you put yourself under the law, then even the laws that are unknown to you, you will be judged on them by God. Only Christ was perfect and able to keep it all."Repentance of your sins in Jesus name " gives us the credentials to go before the throne of God, and have a sin blotted out of the book of life. You are either under the grace given under the blood of Christ, or you are under the law, and it is you that does the choosing. When you teach that there is no forgiveness, under a specific one of those laws, you have condemned your self under the whole law, for Christ's blood is sufficient to cover any sin that is repented to; the Father in Jesus name. Love is the most powerful thing in the world. "Circumcision" that is done under religious beliefs, has nothing to do with salvation. It is done to fulfill part of the law, so when it is done for religious beliefs, it takes you out of your "hope of righteousness by faith in Jesus Christ". This is why in the time of Grace that we are now under, all circumcision is of the heart, and that is why it is for both men and women, for it becomes a spiritual matter, and not a physical act. Both male and female have an active part in serving the living God. There is more to Paul writings, and no one can say in all honestly that Paul taught people not to observe it, he taught the law in the completeness of Christ, once you understand all of the letters.Remember, most of the people he addresses in the scripture you quoted, where being taught by the Pharisees that they had to observe the old covenant blood letting practices. And this is against what is written.

What other writer testified to these doctrines?

This not not all easy to understand, and to claim without a doubt what you are, shows me a unwillingness to study before forming conclusions . I don't understand this completely ,but I don't allow myself to jump to conclusions when I had inadequate time, ( years ) to study everything ; that being the case with most people, who would dare call Paul, who Christ chose , false ? That would be a grave mistake. You would be ignoring a lot of scriptures.

False witness. As I've written, I've spent years studying this issue from both sides.

 

[aMessianic]

Either you are saying that Scripture written by Paul is not God inspired and the Holy Spirit failed in preserving His written word or you are saying that all of Scripture is corrupt. Your attack is not on Paul, your attack is on God.

Either you are saying that Scripture written by Enoch or Sirach is not God inspired and the Holy Spirit failed in preserving His written word or you are saying that all of Scripture is corrupt. Your attack is not on Enoch or Sirach, your attack is on God.

 

[cfultz3]

Hey, brother, I have some letters here that I wrote ... it says a couple of times too, "hear aMessianic, mine apostle". Oh, and my associate (let's call him "Luke") is writing a book "The Acts of aMessianic" with an account of my encounter.

Will you believe on faith alone?
Or will you test me according to my doctrines and how they match up (or don't match up) with what Messiah taught?

I truly hope that the administrators are reading your posts. You set here and say that the Bible teaches us falsely by having the false teachings of Paul included and yet you still stand righteously in some people's eyes.

Either Scripture is from God and is held to be True or you are mocking Scripture. Your mockery of God and what He has chosen to deliver to us reeks.......

If what you say is true, 27% of New Testament Scripture is false, then all of Christianity is based on a lie. If you are able to stand here without Christians coming to defend their God's Scripture, then all I can say.....

 

[aMessianic]

know this

if anybody persucate you they are not only persucate them they are persucating jesus
if anybody rejects you consider they rejected jesus first(luke 10:16)

so dont reject paul amessainic

Were there any saved believers before Paul came on the scene? Was the thief on the cross unsaved, because he didn't have a chance to hear Paul's message?

 

[cfultz3]

Either you are saying that Scripture written by Enoch or Sirach is not God inspired and the Holy Spirit failed in preserving His written word or you are saying that all of Scripture is corrupt. Your attack is not on Enoch or Sirach, your attack is on God.

Either the Holy Scripture we call the Bible is from God and what He has chosen to given us as His written word, or it is you who adds to His Scripture and imply that what He has chosen is not enough.

 

[nathan3]

Your conclusion is based on a premise which I reject.

Do you believe Messiah was circumcised? Are we not called to follow His example?

What other writer testified to these doctrines?

False witness. As I've written, I've spent years studying this issue from both sides.

Scriptures are clear, as even Peter states, Paul served Christ. And Paul dedicated his life to that mission.


No we do Not circumcise for religious reasons, as Christians. It would be sacrilegious and an insult to Christ. Christ shed His blood of the new covenant, for one and all time that whosoever believes on His should be saved and have eternal life.


Hebrews 10:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Just one time.



Years is not enough to study anything, its a daily life long commitment, even the most learned scholars admit, if they want to continue to learn God;'s words, they have to be willing to learn with an open mind. They say they never learn it all. And we all have a long way to go. In your 20's you should definitely realize your still in the process of grasping these concepts.


Your going to have to throw out a lot of scriptures. Because scholars now believe God used Paul to write Hebrews. Instead of continuing on your current thought, i would give more time to study. and not say, well i studied for years, therefore i know this . Because its very risky if you end up being wrong

:/

 

[aMessianic]

I truly hope that the administrators are reading your posts. You set here and say that the Bible teaches us falsely by having the false teachings of Paul included and yet you still stand righteously in some people's eyes.

Either Scripture is from God and is held to be True or you are mocking Scripture. Your mockery of God and what He has chosen to deliver to us reeks.......

If what you say is true, 27% of New Testament Scripture is false, then all of Christianity is based on a lie. If you are able to stand here without Christians coming to defend their God's Scripture, then all I can say.....

Was YHVH wrong in placing the Tree in the Garden?

Which Scripture canon is True?

Mine simply happens to exclude Paul's writings. Are you denying that people were saved before Paul ever came on the scene?

 

[laura_charlotte]

The apostle Paul knew that, in his role as a leader of the Galatian Christians, God had called him to navigate the church, but he did much more than that, Paul knew what to navigate his fellow Christians toward.

False teachers were trying to convince the Galatians to rely on their own works for slavation instead of the grace God had poured out on them in the person of Jesus. This Paul could not ignore.

Paul attempted to correct the errant course the Galatians had chosen by pointing out that no one can add anything to what Jesus has already accomplished on the Cross. No one can do a single thing to make themselves 'more acceptable' to God.

Paul released the Galatians to become all God intended them to be. They felt free and empowered by God's spirit and Paul's leadership. As a secure leader, Paul freely gave power to others.


Only in the book of Galatians does Paul fail to affirm anything or anyone as he begins his letter. After a brief salutation, the apostle jumps right in and contends with the erring Galatian believers. The letter contains the most emphatic statement of salvation apart from the Law to be found in Scripture. It is the only letter in which Paul develops a lengthy allegory to explain how God saves the unsaved. It provides us with a tremendous case study of a leader who must lead an erring group of followers back to God's original plan.

 

[aMessianic]

Scriptures are clear, as even Peter states, Paul served Christ. And Paul dedicated his life to that mission. No we do Not circumcise for religious reasons, as Christians. It would be sacrilegious and an insult to Christ. Christ shed His blood of the new covenant, for one and all time that whosoever believes on His should be saved and have eternal life. Hebrews 10:14 ...

I believe this:

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." Mt 10:38
"For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." Jn 13:15
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1Jn 2:6
"Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps" 1Pe 2:21
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind" 1Pet 4:1
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12
"Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps." Psa 85:13

The main difference between me and mainstream Christianity is that I believe salvation comes through a true loving relationship with Messiah, expressed through trust, repentance, faithfulness, and obedience in Him ... as any true wife would for her true and perfect husband, working alongside Him towards shared goals, bearing his yoke and burden with Him, being His helper.

Is this doctrine offensive to you?

Years is not enough to study anything, its a daily life long commitment, even the most learned scholars admit, if they want to continue to learn God;'s words, they have to be willing to learn with an open mind. They say they never learn it all. And we all have a long way to go. In your 20's you should definitely realize your still in the process of grasping these concepts.

Not meaning to be haughty, but how long have you studied both sides of this one issue? Are you willing to learn with an open mind as well, studying the other side of the story?

 

[nathan3]

I believe this:

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." Mt 10:38
"For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." Jn 13:15
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1Jn 2:6
"Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps" 1Pe 2:21
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind" 1Pet 4:1
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12
"Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps." Psa 85:13

The main difference between me and mainstream Christianity is that I believe salvation comes through a true loving relationship with Messiah, expressed through trust, repentance, faithfulness, and obedience in Him ... as any true wife would for her true and perfect husband, working alongside Him towards shared goals, bearing his yoke and burden with Him, being His helper.

Is this doctrine offensive to you?

Not meaning to be haughty, but how long have you studied both sides of this one issue? Are you willing to learn with an open mind as well, studying the other side of the story?

I believe all the scripture quoted in their entirety. But scripture is not against scripture.


I'm never willing to toss out God's words.

I have an open mind to learn God's words, but its not open to allow trash into it. Saying Paul is false, is trash. Trash in trash out. To avoid that, we have to listen to whats written. If not, then good luck, your going to need it.

You very well may find yourself at the wrong end of the rope, pulling in the wrong direction: on the other end will be God. And you'll end up loosing.

Are you also going to toss out 1 Thess4 and 2 Thess 2 ?


Your view about Paul makes no logical sense. If and if you have studied trash for so many years, you will eventually believe the trash. All that time, you should have been studying God's words, which God authored, that included Paul's letters.

 

[aMessianic]

I believe all the scripture quoted in their entirety. I'm never willing to toss out God's words. I have an open mind to learn God's words, but its not open to allow trash into it. Saying Paul is false, is trash. Trash in trash out. To avoid that, we have to listen to whats written. If not, then good luck, your going to need it. You very well may find yourself at the wrong end of the rope, pulling in the wrong direction: on the other end will be God. And you'll end up loosing. Are you also going to toss out 1 Thess4 and 2 Thess 2 ? Your view about Paul makes no logical sense. If and if you have studied trash for so many years, you will eventually believe the trash. All that time, you should have been studying God's words, which God authored, that included Paul's letters.

No offense meant ... but I've spent 3+ years prayerfully studying both sides of this one issue, and you claim I have not studied enough ... and, by your lack of response, you have not apparently studied this issue to any significant depth, and you know for sure it's "trash"? Fascinating.

How do you know your canon is true? Why not the Catholic's canon? Why not the Ethiopian Orthodox's canon? Or Luther's canon? Or mine? Which is this so-called "the Scripture" you are referring to?

Messiah commends the Ephesians for rejecting a lying, false apostle. The Ephesians had no right to test an "apostle", right?

 

[nathan3]

No offense meant ... but I've spent 3+ years prayerfully studying both sides of this one issue, and you claim I have not studied enough ... and, by your lack of response, you have not apparently studied this issue to any significant depth, and you know for sure it's "trash"? Fascinating.

How do you know your canon is true? Why not the Catholic's canon? Why not the Ethiopian Orthodox's canon? Or Luther's canon? Or mine? Which is this so-called "the Scripture" you are referring to?

Look, you cant learn anything in just 3 years. You claim you studied for 3+ years of both side, but both side may be trash of whoever you were listing to. God has his own side, and we need to be on the same page as Him. Not people


By ""my cannon" you mean Paul's letters ? The scripture I been referring to is the entire Bible, if you have not recognized that, then what have you been referring to ? It makes no sense. total confusion .

Matthew 12 :

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?


God's words are not against Himself. Paul would not be in the scriptures if God did not want Him there. Paul's letters is not just some misuse of a letter, or a scribes mistake, it makes up a large part of the New testament.

And to say Paul dose not belong, is to actually go against God's written words.

It makes no sense seeing Paul taught Christ to the letter. And his wisdom is given to Paul by God. I would not throw away ,

Paul's letters just because your confused about a hand full of verses. out eventually Luke, Acts, and Hebrews, also, if men have not convinced you to do that already .

 

[aMessianic]

Look, you cant learn anything in just 3 years. You claim you studied for 3+ years of both side, but both side may be trash of whoever you were listing to. God has his own side, and we need to be on the same page as Him. Not people

I can't learn anything in 3 years? How long were the apostles learning from Messiah when He was on earth? How long have you studied this, again?

By ""my cannon" you mean Paul's letters ? The scripture I been referring to is the entire Bible

I have an entire Bible too. Why are you trying to add to my Bible?

 

[nathan3]

I can't learn anything in 3 years? How long did the apostles take to learn from Messiah when He was on earth? How long have you studied this, again?

I have an entire Bible too. Why are you trying to add to my Bible?

Do you know how many times they had to ask Christ what dose His parables means ? They did not grasp it right away.
Even the arch angel in Daniel saying, seal up those writings until the end, because the understanding of them is for the end.

Your subtracting from scriptures . Like I asked before, what are you going to do about 1 Thess 4, and 2 Thess 2 ?

 

[aMessianic]

Do you know how many times they had to ask Christ what dose His parables means ? They did not grasp it right away. Even the arch angel in Daniel saying, seal up those writings until the end, because the understanding of them is for the end. Your subtracting from scriptures . Like I asked before, what are you going to do about 1 Thess 4, and 2 Thess 2 ?

You may claim that I am taking away from Scripture. I can also claim that you are adding to Scripture. There are commandments against that as well.

 

[nathan3]

You may claim that I am taking away from Scripture. I can also claim that you are adding to Scripture. There are commandments against that as well.

What are you going to do about this verse ? Listen to it, or water it down, muddy it, or how ? Maybe close your eyes, or tare out this page from your Bible ?


2 Peter 3:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;


I'll never understand how people can be duped so easily into believing men, over God. . And It will not effect me one iota in the end.

 

[aMessianic]

What are you going to do about this verse ? Listen to it, or water it down, muddy it, or how ? Maybe close your eyes, or tare out this page from your Bible ? 2 Peter 3:15 King James Version (KJV) 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

I've addressed this particular set of verses multiple times in this thread. Long story short, I believe this is a warning from Peter, not a commendation.

 

[GreenNnice]

No offense meant ... but I've spent 3+ years prayerfully studying both sides of this one issue, and you claim I have not studied enough ... and, by your lack of response, you have not apparently studied this issue to any significant depth, and you know for sure it's "trash"? Fascinating.

How do you know your canon is true? Why not the Catholic's canon? Why not the Ethiopian Orthodox's canon? Or Luther's canon? Or mine? Which is this so-called "the Scripture" you are referring to?

Messiah commends the Ephesians for rejecting a lying, false apostle. The Ephesians had no right to test an "apostle", right?

Why do you want to believe your canon as opposed to the one that nate is relating to you, or, Christ, I mean, Christ, I mean, cee, I mean, cfultz? (Dratted green brains , always a little behind schedule )

What is the difference in your canon and theirs, messiahCfollower ? Why so stout and tied to believe it

By the way, Nate & Cfultz both have given you anything BUT a lack of response, as you put it, Mess

------
I'm curious, too, brother, messianic, could you post your canon's verse for this one that Nate posted:

2 Peter 3:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;


Thank you.