Was Simon the Sorcerer saved?
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For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(Romans 10:11-17)
wow!
conspicuous absence of 'laying on of hands' and 'being filled with the Spirit in power' here!
what's all this talk about belief, if it's the laying on of hands from an apostle that actually saves??
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as i said from the beginning, all of you who wish to judge the salvation of Simon the believer, judge in the same way you yourselves would be judged.
damn him in the same way you yourself would be damned,or forgive him in the same way you would wish to be forgiven -- but in either case God does not ask your opinion before He Himself decides to have mercy or not on this man.
damn him in the same way you yourself would be damned,or forgive him in the same way you would wish to be forgiven -- but in either case God does not ask your opinion before He Himself decides to have mercy or not on this man.
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posthuman
A note from John Piper on Simon ---read all for yourself
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/simons-perversion-of-signs-and-wonders
Simon's Perversion of Signs and Wonders
Four Steps in Luke's Warning to Us
1. Simon's Non-Saving Faith
First, there is a "faith," there is a "believing," that does not save, even though it rises in the presence of true preaching and true miracles.
2. The Object of Simon's Faith
The second step of Luke's warning is that the object of Simon's faith—the thing in which he believes—is the power of supernatural phenomena—the power of miracles that you can see with the physical eye, not Jesus Christ and the glory of his grace.
Simon was a sorcerer. That means he dealt in supernatural power before he ever heard Philip preach or ever heard of Jesus Christ. He used his magical arts for a long time in Samaria (according to Acts 8:9–11), and amazed the people. He knew real power when he saw it.
3. Simon's "Faith" as Mere Amazement
The third step of Luke's warning is that the experience of Simon's "faith" was simply amazement—amazement at Philip's signs, not brokenness for sin and not humble trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
4. Simon's Crooked Heart
The final step in Luke's warning is that the root of Simon's false faith is a crooked heart.
A note from John Piper on Simon ---read all for yourself
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/simons-perversion-of-signs-and-wonders
Simon's Perversion of Signs and Wonders
Four Steps in Luke's Warning to Us
1. Simon's Non-Saving Faith
First, there is a "faith," there is a "believing," that does not save, even though it rises in the presence of true preaching and true miracles.
2. The Object of Simon's Faith
The second step of Luke's warning is that the object of Simon's faith—the thing in which he believes—is the power of supernatural phenomena—the power of miracles that you can see with the physical eye, not Jesus Christ and the glory of his grace.
Simon was a sorcerer. That means he dealt in supernatural power before he ever heard Philip preach or ever heard of Jesus Christ. He used his magical arts for a long time in Samaria (according to Acts 8:9–11), and amazed the people. He knew real power when he saw it.
3. Simon's "Faith" as Mere Amazement
The third step of Luke's warning is that the experience of Simon's "faith" was simply amazement—amazement at Philip's signs, not brokenness for sin and not humble trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
4. Simon's Crooked Heart
The final step in Luke's warning is that the root of Simon's false faith is a crooked heart.
meaningless innuendo with regard to the matter at hand.
the text does not say Simon denied Christ or renounced his faith.
it says Simon believed, and was baptized.
then it records Simon expressing a doctrinal error.
shall we list Mssr. Piper's doctrinal errors and declare him unsaved? is that the takeaway?
equally applies to everyone in Samaria -- the text says Philip was performing signs and miracles, and that the people in Samaria had been amazed at the signs Simon had done.
the text does not say that either Simon or the rest of Samaria believed because of signs ((c.f.e. Acts 2:22 -- this in of itself is not a bad thing, even if it were the case here)). the mention of Philip performing miracles ((v.13)) is after the mention of him preaching the gospel ((v. 12)), and all the people, Simon included, believing ((v. 12)). the clear indication is that Simon believed the Word preached to him.
Mssr. Piper therefore wrests scripture here. shall we declare him unsaved because he has made an error?
but the text does say that Simon believed & was baptized, exactly as it says of the others in Samaria, and moreover, Simon "continued" with Philip. he left his home and followed him - this is not said of anyone else there.
the text does not say this is the extent of Simon's belief.
it says no more of anyone else in Samaria but that they believed and were baptized.
Mssr. Piper, if he were consistent, should equally condemn all of those of whom scripture simply states "they believed"
previously discussed: the same is said of Peter.
do we condemn Peter?
why not?
the text does not say Simon denied Christ or renounced his faith.
it says Simon believed, and was baptized.
then it records Simon expressing a doctrinal error.
shall we list Mssr. Piper's doctrinal errors and declare him unsaved? is that the takeaway?
equally applies to everyone in Samaria -- the text says Philip was performing signs and miracles, and that the people in Samaria had been amazed at the signs Simon had done.
the text does not say that either Simon or the rest of Samaria believed because of signs ((c.f.e. Acts 2:22 -- this in of itself is not a bad thing, even if it were the case here)). the mention of Philip performing miracles ((v.13)) is after the mention of him preaching the gospel ((v. 12)), and all the people, Simon included, believing ((v. 12)). the clear indication is that Simon believed the Word preached to him.
Mssr. Piper therefore wrests scripture here. shall we declare him unsaved because he has made an error?
but the text does say that Simon believed & was baptized, exactly as it says of the others in Samaria, and moreover, Simon "continued" with Philip. he left his home and followed him - this is not said of anyone else there.
the text does not say this is the extent of Simon's belief.
it says no more of anyone else in Samaria but that they believed and were baptized.
Mssr. Piper, if he were consistent, should equally condemn all of those of whom scripture simply states "they believed"
previously discussed: the same is said of Peter.
do we condemn Peter?
why not?
Paul's message pertains to all those living in the NT. The spiritual rebirth was not available until after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Being filled with the Holy Ghost, it is an essential part of the spiritual rebirth. Scripture witnesses it can occur in a variety of ways; i.e., spontaneously, prompted through prayer, through laying on of hands.
What Paul is expressing in the Ephesians scripture concerns the word of truth, the gospel of one's salvation as first presented on the Day of Pentecost. Those who believe the gospel message in it's entirety place their trust in Jesus and through obedience to the commands experience the reality of the NT spiritual rebirth.
The account in Acts 19:1-7 provides further evidence that speaking in tongues is the evidence of being filled with the Holy Ghost. Paul's initial question to the group clarified the point that believing does not automatically cause one to be filled with the Holy Ghost; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?"
The account in Acts 19:1-7 provides further evidence that speaking in tongues is the evidence of being filled with the Holy Ghost. Paul's initial question to the group clarified the point that believing does not automatically cause one to be filled with the Holy Ghost; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?"
According to Paul a person does not automatically receive the Holy Ghost at the moment they believe. See Acts 19:1-7. Paul's initial question makes this clear; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" This is revealed in the Samaritan experience as well. See Acts 8:12-18. The Samaritans did not receive the Holy Ghost until days after believing and being water baptized in the name of Jesus.
Heard and believed what?
"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:29-41)
Confirming biblical evidence confirms tongues accompanied receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost:
Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-42)
Relevant to the experience:
Sound—sign of the Spirit’s coming and availability.
Fire—sign that the Spirit was for each individual.
Tongues—sign that the Spirit filled each person.
Cornelius (Acts 10:43-48)
Tongues was the evidence that convinced skeptical Jews the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost.
Tongues identified this as the Pentecostal experience (Acts 11:15-17).
Ephesus (Acts 19:5-6)
This expresses the Spirit baptism with tongues did not just happen once to each national group; it is for every believer.
Prophecy came after the tongues or the tongues-speaking was prophetic.
Samaria (Acts 8)
They knew they had not received the Spirit, despite their belief, and obedience to water baptism.
Afterward they knew when they received the Spirit.
Simon the Magician "saw" when the group actually received the Spirit and wanted to buy the power to perform the experience.
Paul (Acts 9:17).
Acts 9 gives no description of the experience, however, Paul later indicates he spoke in tongues often. (I Corinthians 14:18)
"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:29-41)
Confirming biblical evidence confirms tongues accompanied receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost:
Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-42)
Relevant to the experience:
Sound—sign of the Spirit’s coming and availability.
Fire—sign that the Spirit was for each individual.
Tongues—sign that the Spirit filled each person.
Cornelius (Acts 10:43-48)
Tongues was the evidence that convinced skeptical Jews the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost.
Tongues identified this as the Pentecostal experience (Acts 11:15-17).
Ephesus (Acts 19:5-6)
This expresses the Spirit baptism with tongues did not just happen once to each national group; it is for every believer.
Prophecy came after the tongues or the tongues-speaking was prophetic.
Samaria (Acts 8)
They knew they had not received the Spirit, despite their belief, and obedience to water baptism.
Afterward they knew when they received the Spirit.
Simon the Magician "saw" when the group actually received the Spirit and wanted to buy the power to perform the experience.
Paul (Acts 9:17).
Acts 9 gives no description of the experience, however, Paul later indicates he spoke in tongues often. (I Corinthians 14:18)
Obedience is the key. True faith prompts action. Those who believe on Jesus will be obedient and the spiritual rebirth will be the result as He promised.
According to Hebrews 5:9, Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him. Jesus is the Word! And the word expresses all must receive the Holy Ghost in order to be a part of the family of God. And it conveys that receiving the Holy Ghost comes in various ways; .i.e. spontaneously, prompted through prayer, and laying on of hands. God brings about the experience as He sees fit.
According to Hebrews 5:9, Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him. Jesus is the Word! And the word expresses all must receive the Holy Ghost in order to be a part of the family of God. And it conveys that receiving the Holy Ghost comes in various ways; .i.e. spontaneously, prompted through prayer, and laying on of hands. God brings about the experience as He sees fit.
Not so. The NT began after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection when the Holy Ghost was first given. Paul's encounter with the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19 happened over 20 years after the message was first presented to all groups of humanity; Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans. The Ephesus account speaks to the truth that the experience is required of all individuals. And provides confirmation of what Peter stated when the message was first presented. Those who believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, and obey the command to repent, and be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus were given the promise of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost at some point.
Hmm.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Who is the "we" in this verse?
John 3:11
Most assuredly, I say to you, we speak what we know and testify what we have seen, and you do not receive our witness.
Because Christ had just said that no one can see the kingdom of God without being born of the Spirit, yet whoever "we" is there, has been testifying of its being at hand, and Jesus says they are testifying of what they have "seen"
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Who is the "we" in this verse?
John 3:11
Most assuredly, I say to you, we speak what we know and testify what we have seen, and you do not receive our witness.
Because Christ had just said that no one can see the kingdom of God without being born of the Spirit, yet whoever "we" is there, has been testifying of its being at hand, and Jesus says they are testifying of what they have "seen"
posthuman said:
i would like to know why people are quick to damn Simon but not Simon Peter . . ?
This Scripture below answers your Question ----
Jesus here has prayed for Peter that when He denies Him that His Faith would not Fail --------
and-------- you see that Satan has ask Permission to sift Peter and is Granted that by God ---Why because it was in God's Plan from the start -------God needed Peter to deny Jesus 3 times but made provisions for him to regain his status as a true Disciple of Jesus -----verse 32
Luke 22 NIV
1 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.
32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
33 But he replied, “Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death.”
34 Jesus answered, “I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me.”
I say
-Simon the magician was completely under Satan rule with his magic====and if you really get to the understanding of this ---you can understand Satan will try to infiltrate the Church ----and that is what Simon through the influence of Satan was deceitfully trying to do ----get himself planted in the Church -and Philip was blinded to this but Peter wasn't -----and called Simon out ---
Peter was Protected by God so he would not lose his Faith in Jesus ----his faith was kept for him by and through Jesus praying to His Father ------
Satan is today always trying to infiltrate God's Church and there are many Minister's --Priests --Pastors today who have infiltrated God's Church and are Preaching False Doctrine to their Flocks ----Satan is alive and active in many Churches today
Gretta Vosper is an atheist and she is allow to preach in the United Church of Canada -----she is spreading her atheism in the so called ----Church Of God -----
Infestation of Satan at its best here in that Church ----
i would like to know why people are quick to damn Simon but not Simon Peter . . ?
This Scripture below answers your Question ----
Jesus here has prayed for Peter that when He denies Him that His Faith would not Fail --------
and-------- you see that Satan has ask Permission to sift Peter and is Granted that by God ---Why because it was in God's Plan from the start -------God needed Peter to deny Jesus 3 times but made provisions for him to regain his status as a true Disciple of Jesus -----verse 32
Luke 22 NIV
1 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.
32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
33 But he replied, “Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death.”
34 Jesus answered, “I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me.”
I say
-Simon the magician was completely under Satan rule with his magic====and if you really get to the understanding of this ---you can understand Satan will try to infiltrate the Church ----and that is what Simon through the influence of Satan was deceitfully trying to do ----get himself planted in the Church -and Philip was blinded to this but Peter wasn't -----and called Simon out ---
Peter was Protected by God so he would not lose his Faith in Jesus ----his faith was kept for him by and through Jesus praying to His Father ------
Satan is today always trying to infiltrate God's Church and there are many Minister's --Priests --Pastors today who have infiltrated God's Church and are Preaching False Doctrine to their Flocks ----Satan is alive and active in many Churches today
Gretta Vosper is an atheist and she is allow to preach in the United Church of Canada -----she is spreading her atheism in the so called ----Church Of God -----
Infestation of Satan at its best here in that Church ----
My comment included the mention that the spiritual rebirth of the NT was not available to people until after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.
The "we" spoken of pertains to those proclaiming the beginning of the gospel; John the Baptist, et al. (Mark 1) The need to accept the counsel of God by being water baptized in accordance with one's belief in the soon coming Messiah. The message as referenced by John the Baptist indicated Jesus would be baptizing with the Holy Ghost. Scripture confirms this outpouring of the Holy Ghost did not occur until after Jesus was glorified. It occurred on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2) It was at Pentecost as well that water baptism was modified to included the use of the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin in association with His death, burial and resurrection. (Acts 2:38-42) As such, the reality of being born of water and Spirit became a reality for those living in the New Testament era.
God has demanded different acts of obedience from mankind in various dispensations of time. All relevant to Jesus; the promised Messiah.
The "we" spoken of pertains to those proclaiming the beginning of the gospel; John the Baptist, et al. (Mark 1) The need to accept the counsel of God by being water baptized in accordance with one's belief in the soon coming Messiah. The message as referenced by John the Baptist indicated Jesus would be baptizing with the Holy Ghost. Scripture confirms this outpouring of the Holy Ghost did not occur until after Jesus was glorified. It occurred on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2) It was at Pentecost as well that water baptism was modified to included the use of the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin in association with His death, burial and resurrection. (Acts 2:38-42) As such, the reality of being born of water and Spirit became a reality for those living in the New Testament era.
God has demanded different acts of obedience from mankind in various dispensations of time. All relevant to Jesus; the promised Messiah.