Was The Book Of Revelation Written Pre-70AD As Many Claim?

[Truth7t7]

ChristianCourier

When Was the Book of Revelation Written?
By Wayne Jackson

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence

The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus

Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30).

The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus

Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome

Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,
In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence

The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

 

[GraceAndTruth]

TRUTH 7t7.........what am I to do with you????
I'd loved to give you a few great reasons why it has an earlier date.........but would you even consider them?

 

[Scribe]

TRUTH 7t7.........what am I to do with you????
I'd loved to give you a few great reasons why it has an earlier date.........but would you even consider them?

give your reasons. So far late date is in the lead.

 

[Dino246]

This too has been discussed at great length. It's unlikely that anyone's position will be changed.

That said, I lean more towards the early date, because it is internally consistent and aligns with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70. The external evidence put forth in the OP is all based on a single reference from a single source who was going on second-hand information, and who also believed that Jesus was closer to 50 when He was crucified.

The internal evidence presented in the OP depends largely on speculation and circular reasoning.

 

[Scribe]

This too has been discussed at great length. It's unlikely that anyone's position will be changed.

That said, I lean more towards the early date, because it is internally consistent and aligns with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70. The external evidence put forth in the OP is all based on a single reference from a single source who was going on second-hand information, and who also believed that Jesus was closer to 50 when He was crucified.

The internal evidence presented in the OP depends largely on speculation and circular reasoning.

The source he used was an example of many who have listed quotes from the early church fathers or leaders who wrote. They are more than one source. You can google these individual authors and make your own list. The internal evidence of the spiritual condition of the 7 churches having declined suggests a later 95AD date because how could they have declined to such conditions if they were founded in the 50s and it be written in the 60s. More likely since they were founded in the 50s and early 60s that they had declined to such conditions by 90s. There is really no getting around the dates. We can narrow it done from details in Acts about Ephesus as just one example. By tracing Pauls conversion, his missionary journeys when these churches were founded we know within a few years on some of them.

The later date is wining the debate so far.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Earlier date for Revelation
According to many bible “scholars”, Revelation was written around 90+AD. This would make John somewhere between 75 and 80 years old. Not impossible but also John was pastoring in the Ephesus church before AND after, Patmos.

The old Syriac version of the bible has Revelation written by John “while on Patmos where he was exiled by Nero Caesar”.

Considering God’s timetables of 7 year periods, this 3 ½ years would begin around 64AD with John on Patmos writing Revelation and the next 3 ½ year period beginning the siege of the Roman army in 67AD of Jerusalem ending with the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Nero Caesar died in June of 68 AD, and according to Roman law those banned “political prisoners” by the prior Caesar would be released by the succeeding Caesar. Thus, John would have been released from Patmos in 68 AD by Galba Caesar. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation).It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero. So if John was still IN Patmos then he could not have written Revelation after 65AD.

The identity of the 7 kings mentioned in Rev. 17:10 sets the timing.
The 7 kings have to be these early Caesers because only those Caesars fit the criteria:
* five of whom have fallen, *one is, the *other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
NOTE: The count is from Augustus (AD14)because his reign began the Imperial period, his status as the founder of the Roman Principate

Five fallen: Augustus Julius, Tiberius, Gaius, Caligula, Claudius – before Nero
One is: Nero (presently ruling)
One yet to come for little while: Galba – future (reigned 7 months and 7days, shortest reign of all Caesars)

John’s noting the 7 kings with 5 dead, the 6th in power, which is Nero, and one to come makes the timing between 14AD and 69AD…Augustus to Galba… (Nero ruling years 55-68AD…his senate helped him commit suicide in June of 68AD) The fact that John is under persecution as a political prisoner, shows that Nero The Beast had begun his reign of terror on the Christians before that. Galba, succeeding Nero Caesar, would have released John from Patmos in 68 AD*. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation), making the Revelation being written before or during 1st half of 68AD while John was still on Patmos.
*Galba was dead by January 15, 69AD………ruled for 7 months and 7 days

NOTE: It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero.
Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen
Tertullians letter to the Jews was about the reason for them going thru the trib.

 

[Dino246]

The later date is wining the debate so far.

In your mind perhaps.

 

[Scribe]

Earlier date for Revelation
According to many bible “scholars”, Revelation was written around 90+AD. This would make John somewhere between 75 and 80 years old. Not impossible but also John was pastoring in the Ephesus church before AND after, Patmos.

The old Syriac version of the bible has Revelation written by John “while on Patmos where he was exiled by Nero Caesar”.

Considering God’s timetables of 7 year periods, this 3 ½ years would begin around 64AD with John on Patmos writing Revelation and the next 3 ½ year period beginning the siege of the Roman army in 67AD of Jerusalem ending with the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Nero Caesar died in June of 68 AD, and according to Roman law those banned “political prisoners” by the prior Caesar would be released by the succeeding Caesar. Thus, John would have been released from Patmos in 68 AD by Galba Caesar. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation).It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero. So if John was still IN Patmos then he could not have written Revelation after 65AD.

The identity of the 7 kings mentioned in Rev. 17:10 sets the timing.
The 7 kings have to be these early Caesers because only those Caesars fit the criteria:
* five of whom have fallen, *one is, the *other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
NOTE: The count is from Augustus (AD14)because his reign began the Imperial period, his status as the founder of the Roman Principate

Five fallen: Augustus Julius, Tiberius, Gaius, Caligula, Claudius – before Nero
One is: Nero (presently ruling)
One yet to come for little while: Galba – future (reigned 7 months and 7days, shortest reign of all Caesars)

John’s noting the 7 kings with 5 dead, the 6th in power, which is Nero, and one to come makes the timing between 14AD and 69AD…Augustus to Galba… (Nero ruling years 55-68AD…his senate helped him commit suicide in June of 68AD) The fact that John is under persecution as a political prisoner, shows that Nero The Beast had begun his reign of terror on the Christians before that. Galba, succeeding Nero Caesar, would have released John from Patmos in 68 AD*. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation), making the Revelation being written before or during 1st half of 68AD while John was still on Patmos.
*Galba was dead by January 15, 69AD………ruled for 7 months and 7 days

NOTE: It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero.
Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen
Tertullians letter to the Jews was about the reason for them going thru the trib.

Ooo... now we have a debate! Bring it sister!

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Ooo... now we have a debate! Bring it sister!

Start your engines!
Keep it nice. State your case, but it would be nice if we could take it in small bites.
I'll just tell you what I know...I'm not asking anyone to march to my drum.

 

[Truth7t7]

Earlier date for Revelation
According to many bible “scholars”, Revelation was written around 90+AD. This would make John somewhere between 75 and 80 years old. Not impossible but also John was pastoring in the Ephesus church before AND after, Patmos.

The old Syriac version of the bible has Revelation written by John “while on Patmos where he was exiled by Nero Caesar”.

Considering God’s timetables of 7 year periods, this 3 ½ years would begin around 64AD with John on Patmos writing Revelation and the next 3 ½ year period beginning the siege of the Roman army in 67AD of Jerusalem ending with the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Nero Caesar died in June of 68 AD, and according to Roman law those banned “political prisoners” by the prior Caesar would be released by the succeeding Caesar. Thus, John would have been released from Patmos in 68 AD by Galba Caesar. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation).It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero. So if John was still IN Patmos then he could not have written Revelation after 65AD.

The identity of the 7 kings mentioned in Rev. 17:10 sets the timing.
The 7 kings have to be these early Caesers because only those Caesars fit the criteria:
* five of whom have fallen, *one is, the *other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
NOTE: The count is from Augustus (AD14)because his reign began the Imperial period, his status as the founder of the Roman Principate

Five fallen: Augustus Julius, Tiberius, Gaius, Caligula, Claudius – before Nero
One is: Nero (presently ruling)
One yet to come for little while: Galba – future (reigned 7 months and 7days, shortest reign of all Caesars)

John’s noting the 7 kings with 5 dead, the 6th in power, which is Nero, and one to come makes the timing between 14AD and 69AD…Augustus to Galba… (Nero ruling years 55-68AD…his senate helped him commit suicide in June of 68AD) The fact that John is under persecution as a political prisoner, shows that Nero The Beast had begun his reign of terror on the Christians before that. Galba, succeeding Nero Caesar, would have released John from Patmos in 68 AD*. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation), making the Revelation being written before or during 1st half of 68AD while John was still on Patmos.
*Galba was dead by January 15, 69AD………ruled for 7 months and 7 days

NOTE: It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero.
Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen
Tertullians letter to the Jews was about the reason for them going thru the trib.

Searched everywhere for your (Syriac Claim) this is all that was found.

The old, or original Syriac didnt even contain the book of Revelation, this alone suggest the later date.

I look forward to your provision of a citation that would show the (Old Syriac) containing your claim?

Murdock Syriac (5th Century)
The Revelation, which was made by God to John the Evangelist, in the island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero the Emperor."

 

[iamsoandso]

ChristianCourier

When Was the Book of Revelation Written?
By Wayne Jackson

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence

The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus

Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30).

The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus

Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome

Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,
In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence

The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

Also look close at this in chapter 11 https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0136.htm where Polycarp(Bishop of Smyrna) says "for we had not yet known him" ,that is Smyrna(one of the 7 Churches in Rev.) had not been established nor had known(converted) to Christianity at the point in time of Paul's letters or while he was alive.

 

[Truth7t7]

Earlier date for Revelation
According to many bible “scholars”, Revelation was written around 90+AD. This would make John somewhere between 75 and 80 years old. Not impossible but also John was pastoring in the Ephesus church before AND after, Patmos.

The old Syriac version of the bible has Revelation written by John “while on Patmos where he was exiled by Nero Caesar”.

Considering God’s timetables of 7 year periods, this 3 ½ years would begin around 64AD with John on Patmos writing Revelation and the next 3 ½ year period beginning the siege of the Roman army in 67AD of Jerusalem ending with the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Nero Caesar died in June of 68 AD, and according to Roman law those banned “political prisoners” by the prior Caesar would be released by the succeeding Caesar. Thus, John would have been released from Patmos in 68 AD by Galba Caesar. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation).It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero. So if John was still IN Patmos then he could not have written Revelation after 65AD.

The identity of the 7 kings mentioned in Rev. 17:10 sets the timing.
The 7 kings have to be these early Caesers because only those Caesars fit the criteria:
* five of whom have fallen, *one is, the *other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
NOTE: The count is from Augustus (AD14)because his reign began the Imperial period, his status as the founder of the Roman Principate

Five fallen: Augustus Julius, Tiberius, Gaius, Caligula, Claudius – before Nero
One is: Nero (presently ruling)
One yet to come for little while: Galba – future (reigned 7 months and 7days, shortest reign of all Caesars)

John’s noting the 7 kings with 5 dead, the 6th in power, which is Nero, and one to come makes the timing between 14AD and 69AD…Augustus to Galba… (Nero ruling years 55-68AD…his senate helped him commit suicide in June of 68AD) The fact that John is under persecution as a political prisoner, shows that Nero The Beast had begun his reign of terror on the Christians before that. Galba, succeeding Nero Caesar, would have released John from Patmos in 68 AD*. (John himself mentions he was at Patmos when he received the Revelation), making the Revelation being written before or during 1st half of 68AD while John was still on Patmos.
*Galba was dead by January 15, 69AD………ruled for 7 months and 7 days

NOTE: It was the historic position of the church’s earliest belief that John was exiled by Nero.
Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen
Tertullians letter to the Jews was about the reason for them going thru the trib.

The only place your claim is found, according to my research, ole James Murdock's translation of a 5th century manuscript in 1851

Murdock Syriac (5th Century)
The Revelation, which was made by God to John the Evangelist, in the island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero the Emperor."

James Murdock (1776–1856) was an American biblical scholar, born in Westbrook, Connecticut.
He made the first translation of the New Testament from the Syriac Peshitta into English in 1851.[1]

William E. Paul English Language Bible Translators 1476610231 2009 Page 170 "Murdock,. James. (1776–1856) [NT] James Murdock was born in Westbrook, Connecticut, of Scotch-Irish descent. He entered Yale College, New Haven, at the age of 17, and graduated in 1797 (A.B.), second in his class ... Having been somewhat familiar with the Syriac language, Murdock says that, when he was nearly 70 years old, he began reading the Peshitta Syriac Version of the New Testament “to extend (my) own long cherished but scanty knowledge of the Syriac language."

 

[iamsoandso]

Also if John was released from exile at Patmos in ad68/69 by Galba then the Revelation events were not "soon" to take place, they would have been "almost over with", and so the Revelation would be of no benefit to the seven Churches of Asia.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The old, or original Syriac didnt even contain the book of Revelation, this alone suggest the later date.

I look forward to your provision of a citation that would show the (Old Syriac) containing your claim?

Murdock Syriac (5th Century)
The Revelation, which was made by God to John the Evangelist, in the island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero the Emperor."[/QUOTE]

So you did my homework for me......the Murdock Syriac stating (according to your post) that Nero banished John sets the date as early.

The “Muratorian Fragment,” dating back to 170-190 A.D., states that this work of John was written during the reign of Nero. The Muratorian fragment, also known as the Muratorian Canon or Canon Muratori, is a copy of perhaps the oldest known list of most of the books of the New Testament.

Justin Martyr mentions the gospels as being FOUR in number and quotes from them, also quotes some of the epistles of Paul and from the Revelation of John
"Moreover also among us a man named John, one of the apostles of Christ, prophesied in a revelation made to him that those who have believed on our Christ will spend a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that hereafter the general and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all will likewise take place." (Dial. 81.4)

The “Monarchian Prologues,” that dates back to 250-350 A.D., claims that Paul also wrote to these seven churches (possibly Romans which was a “circular letter,” it went out to many addressees) following John’s Book, thus, placing the book even before some of the other Pauline epistles.

Including your Murdock refence, that makes 4 witness to early date.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The only place your claim is found, according to my research, ole James Murdock's translation of a 5th century manuscript in 1851

Murdock Syriac (5th Century)
The Revelation, which was made by God to John the Evangelist, in the island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero the Emperor."

James Murdock (1776–1856) was an American biblical scholar, born in Westbrook, Connecticut.
He made the first translation of the New Testament from the Syriac Peshitta into English in 1851.[1]

William E. Paul English Language Bible Translators 1476610231 2009 Page 170 "Murdock,. James. (1776–1856) [NT] James Murdock was born in Westbrook, Connecticut, of Scotch-Irish descent. He entered Yale College, New Haven, at the age of 17, and graduated in 1797 (A.B.), second in his class ... Having been somewhat familiar with the Syriac language, Murdock says that, when he was nearly 70 years old, he began reading the Peshitta Syriac Version of the New Testament “to extend (my) own long cherished but scanty knowledge of the Syriac language."

If Murdock did his translation from an actual Peshitta it may have had those word in it. I don't know about that person.

 

[Truth7t7]

The old, or original Syriac didnt even contain the book of Revelation, this alone suggest the later date.

I look forward to your provision of a citation that would show the (Old Syriac) containing your claim?

Murdock Syriac (5th Century)
The Revelation, which was made by God to John the Evangelist, in the island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero the Emperor."

So you did my homework for me......the Murdock Syriac stating (according to your post) that Nero banished John sets the date as early.

The “Muratorian Fragment,” dating back to 170-190 A.D., states that this work of John was written during the reign of Nero. The Muratorian fragment, also known as the Muratorian Canon or Canon Muratori, is a copy of perhaps the oldest known list of most of the books of the New Testament.

Big Smiles!

The Murdoc 5th century claim wasn't taken from the (Old Syriac) it was a 5th century translation.

This claim evolves around a man (James Murdoc) in 1851, who didn't even have a grip of the Syriac Language

James Murdock (1776–1856) was an American biblical scholar, born in Westbrook, Connecticut.
He made the first translation of the New Testament from the Syriac Peshitta into English in 1851.[1]

William E. Paul English Language Bible Translators 1476610231 2009 Page 170 "Murdock,. James. (1776–1856) [NT] James Murdock was born in Westbrook, Connecticut, of Scotch-Irish descent. He entered Yale College, New Haven, at the age of 17, and graduated in 1797 (A.B.), second in his class ... Having been somewhat familiar with the Syriac language, Murdock says that, when he was nearly 70 years old, he began reading the Peshitta Syriac Version of the New Testament “to extend (my) own long cherished but scanty knowledge of the Syriac language."

 

[Truth7t7]

If Murdock did his translation from an actual Peshitta it may have had those word in it. I don't know about that person.

It appears that that in 1851, James Murdoc added the claim relating to his personal views.

Just showing how the foundation for a pre-70AD claim is built upon quicksand

In Love

 

[Truth7t7]

The “Muratorian Fragment,” dating back to 170-190 A.D., states that this work of John was written during the reign of Nero. The Muratorian fragment, also known as the Muratorian Canon or Canon Muratori, is a copy of perhaps the oldest known list of most of the books of the New Testament.

I read your claim above, but where did this come from?

Source with a link is requested?

The infor beliw shows it's a copy of a Greek manuscript dated 170-400AD, any pre-70AD claim would be false

The Muratorian fragment, also known as the Muratorian Canon[1](18:02) or Canon Muratori, is a copy of perhaps the oldest known list of most of the books of the New Testament. The fragment, consisting of 85 lines, is a 7th-century Latin manuscript bound in a 7th- or 8th-century codex from the library of Columbanus's monastery at Bobbio Abbey; it contains features suggesting it is a translation from a Greek original written about 170 or as late as the 4th century. Both the degraded condition of the manuscript and the poor Latin in which it was written have made it difficult to translate. The beginning of the fragment is missing, and it ends abruptly. The fragment consists of all that remains of a section of a list of all the works that were accepted as canonical by the churches known to its original compiler. It was discovered in the Ambrosian Library in Milan by Father Ludovico Antonio Muratori (1672–1750), the most famous Italian historian of his generation, and published in 1740.[2]

 

[GraceAndTruth]

It appears that that in 1851, James Murdoc added the claim relating to his personal views.

Just showing how the foundation for a pre-70AD claim is built upon quicksand

In Love

so address the other three references I gave you

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I read your claim above, but where did this come from?

Source with a link is requested?

The infor beliw shows it's a copy of a Greek manuscript dated 170-400AD, any pre-70AD claim would be false

The Muratorian fragment, also known as the Muratorian Canon[1](18:02) or Canon Muratori, is a copy of perhaps the oldest known list of most of the books of the New Testament. The fragment, consisting of 85 lines, is a 7th-century Latin manuscript bound in a 7th- or 8th-century codex from the library of Columbanus's monastery at Bobbio Abbey; it contains features suggesting it is a translation from a Greek original written about 170 or as late as the 4th century. Both the degraded condition of the manuscript and the poor Latin in which it was written have made it difficult to translate. The beginning of the fragment is missing, and it ends abruptly. The fragment consists of all that remains of a section of a list of all the works that were accepted as canonical by the churches known to its original compiler. It was discovered in the Ambrosian Library in Milan by Father Ludovico Antonio Muratori (1672–1750), the most famous Italian historian of his generation, and published in 1740.[2]

There are photos of that text......much more there than 85 lines. GO TO WIDIPEDIA.
Matters not anyway, YOUR post verifed the early date.