Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,248
25,719
113
then knowing my rule for myself if it’s not in scripture don’t make it be there , you should see my point about. Ot bekieving anyone’s damned simply for not getting baptized seems like you want to argue sort of lol
If one's sins are not remitted they are not saved. I cannot see any way clear of that. How is me attempting to make my point clear arguing if you are not arguing in doing the same? It does seem you miss something very vital, but I cannot force you to see it.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
If one's sins are not remitted they are not saved.

To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).
To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).
Partially correct...please keep trying.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).
Scripture specifically states that the name of the Lord Jesus is to be used in association with water baptism. The result of belief and obedience to the command brings about remission of one's sin. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).
Scripture specifically states that the name of the Lord Jesus is to be used in association with water baptism.
And Acts 10:43 isn't even about water baptism. It is about believing in the Name of Jesus for forgiveness.

The result of belief and obedience to the command brings about remission of one's sin. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
Acts 2:38 was to a special group of Jews who had SEEN Jesus' miracles yet participated in His crucifixion as a criminal.

Most likely the baptism mentioned here would be John's baptism, in which EVERYONE would have been familiar with.

They would be identifying with a change of mind (repentance) in what THEY DID TO JESUS.

Acts 2:38 has NO BEARING on the church age.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
FreeGrace2 said:
To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).

And Acts 10:43 isn't even about water baptism. It is about believing in the Name of Jesus for forgiveness.


Acts 2:38 was to a special group of Jews who had SEEN Jesus' miracles yet participated in His crucifixion as a criminal.

Most likely the baptism mentioned here would be John's baptism, in which EVERYONE would have been familiar with.

They would be identifying with a change of mind (repentance) in what THEY DID TO JESUS.

Acts 2:38 has NO BEARING on the church age.
Acts 10:43- says those who believe in Jesus will receive forgiveness of sins. How? Through His name. Scripture shows water baptism was consistently administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. For what? For the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

The NT church was birthed on the Day of Pentecost after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Jesus actually stated His name would begin to be used in Jerusalem in connection with repentance and remission of sin and spread into all nations. (Luke 24:47) His statement confirms the message given on the Day of Pentecost was not exclusive to the Jews as some suppose. Further confirmation is seen in the detailed accounts of all groups of people. They too were commanded to be baptized in the name of the Lord. These baptisms are in fact water baptisms. How can this be known? God is the one who baptizes with the Holy Ghost. Whereas mankind is given the command and must choose whether to submit to water baptism.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
You and i are not the Authority of when the NT began = only JESUS the MESSIAH

i agree and believe the Way the Truth and the Life = the New Testament = Jesus the Christ

His Death on the Cross was to fulfill the Prophecy of God spoken to satan, Adam & Eve in the Garden and all that followed.
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world = Rev 13:8

His Blood shed on the Cross is the NEW TESTAMENT(COVENANT).

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying,
“This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."
Luke 22:19-20

His Blood for the NEW TESTAMENT began when??? It began when the LORD Jesus said so = therefore believe HIM.
The NT was not ratified until Jesus' blood was applied to the mercy seat:

After Jesus' resurrection He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father:
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17) Relevance? This scripture speaks of His blood having yet to be applied to the mercy seat in heaven.

",,,but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb. 9
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).

And Acts 10:43 isn't even about water baptism. It is about believing in the Name of Jesus for forgiveness.
Acts 10:43- says those who believe in Jesus will receive forgiveness of sins. How? Through His name.
Through FAITH in His Name, specifically, as so many other verses clearly communicate.

Scripture shows water baptism was consistently administered in the name of the Lord Jesus.
This is irrelevant to the verse. It is faith in His Name that results in forgiveness of sin. If water baptism was a requirement, this verse WOULD HAVE PLAINLY SAID SO. But it makes no mention of water. You are just grasping at straws.

Acts 3:16 - And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
FreeGrace2 said:
To be "remitted" means to be forgiven. Acts 10:43 tells us HOW they are forgiven.

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Through faith in Christ. The words "through His name" is claimed to be a reference to water baptism but that is incorrect. The believing here is defined by "through His hame". iow, it is believe IN His Name that brings forgiveness (remittance).

And Acts 10:43 isn't even about water baptism. It is about believing in the Name of Jesus for forgiveness.

Through FAITH in His Name, specifically, as so many other verses clearly communicate.


This is irrelevant to the verse. It is faith in His Name that results in forgiveness of sin. If water baptism was a requirement, this verse WOULD HAVE PLAINLY SAID SO. But it makes no mention of water. You are just grasping at straws.

Acts 3:16 - And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
Peter states those who believe in Jesus will receive remission of sin through Jesus' name. It is after the people believe in Jesus that they are commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is a direct parallel to the initial message. Wherein according to Peter everyone is to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38)
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Peter states those who believe in Jesus will receive remission of sin through Jesus' name. It is after the people believe in Jesus that they are commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Only in Acts 2:38 is anyone "commanded" to be baptized.

It is faith in Christ, or "in His Name" that one is forgiven. There is no water in Acts 10:43.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
Only in Acts 2:38 is anyone "commanded" to be baptized.

It is faith in Christ, or "in His Name" that one is forgiven. There is no water in Acts 10:43.
You are mistaken.

Peter commanded Cornelius and others:
"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." Acts 10:47-48
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,046
113
The NT was not ratified until Jesus' blood was applied to the mercy seat:

After Jesus' resurrection He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father:
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17) Relevance? This scripture speaks of His blood having yet to be applied to the mercy seat in heaven.

",,,but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb. 9
The New Covenant was Officially Implimented at the Last Supper and Completed on the Cross when the LORD said it was FINISHED.

ALL that followed was for MORE Blessings from ABOVE as PROMISED.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,046
113
The NT was not ratified until Jesus' blood was applied to the mercy seat:

After Jesus' resurrection He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father:
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17) Relevance? This scripture speaks of His blood having yet to be applied to the mercy seat in heaven.

",,,but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb. 9
ALL that followed was for MORE Blessings from ABOVE as PROMISED.

The Thief on the cross next to the New Covenant died by Faith under the New Covenant.

Anyone who says other is exalting their words above the LORD'S which is very bad to do and forbidden by GOD.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:-5-6


You need to have the same Faith as the Thief who was Saved by the New Covenant.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
Only in Acts 2:38 is anyone "commanded" to be baptized.

It is faith in Christ, or "in His Name" that one is forgiven. There is no water in Acts 10:43.
As I noted in my previous response the word command is used as seen in Acts 10:47-48. In addition, even though the specific word "command" was not specifically stated in other accounts it is clear the hearers were told of the necessity to submit to water baptism as confirmed by their obedience

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half Jewish-half Gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
You are mistaken.

Peter commanded Cornelius and others:
"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." Acts 10:47-48
You are mistaken thinking that water baptism has effects.

They were ALREADY saved and ALREADY received the Holy Spirit. So what's left.

As to Peter's command, since there were 6 believers with him, you cannot prove that his command wasn't to them to do it.

iow, having NOTHING to do with making Cornelius get baptized.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
As I noted in my previous response the word command is used as seen in Acts 10:47-48. In addition, even though the specific word "command" was not specifically stated in other accounts it is clear the hearers were told of the necessity to submit to water baptism as confirmed by their obedience

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half Jewish-half Gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

.
Acts 10:43 sinks your boat. Oh, yeah, like being immersed.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
ALL that followed was for MORE Blessings from ABOVE as PROMISED.

The Thief on the cross next to the New Covenant died by Faith under the New Covenant.

Anyone who says other is exalting their words above the LORD'S which is very bad to do and forbidden by GOD.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:-5-6


You need to have the same Faith as the Thief who was Saved by the New Covenant.
I do have faith. And realize every word of God is flawless. The biblical record confirms God gave believers specific commands in both the OT and NT. The thief died prior to the resurrection and glorification of Jesus. Therefore, the NT commands were not in effect. That occurred when the Holy Ghost was poured out after Jesus was glorified. (Acts 2)

The initial message to the NT church is outlined in Acts chapter 2. It includes the need to believe in Jesus death, burial and resurrection and stated requirements. Peter gave specific instructions to individuals who asked what they must do. They were told to repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost. Peter later commanded the Gentiles to get baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus after they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10) And assisted in the Samaritans conversion as well. (Acts 8)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
You are mistaken thinking that water baptism has effects.

They were ALREADY saved and ALREADY received the Holy Spirit. So what's left.

As to Peter's command, since there were 6 believers with him, you cannot prove that his command wasn't to them to do it.

iow, having NOTHING to do with making Cornelius get baptized.
Sadly you deflect when shown from the word that your understanding is not accurate. And that is not wise.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Sadly you deflect when shown from the word that your understanding is not accurate. And that is not wise.
I haven't deflected. It is your understanding that is inaccurate.

I agree, that's not wise.