Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

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FreeGrace2

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Note. You neglected to mention that Paul believed in the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus but was not filled with the Holy Ghost at that time. Jesus actually sent Paul to Ananias who told him what he must do. Acts 9:6

"And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." After Paul was filled with the Holy Ghost he arose was baptized. (Acts 9:17-18)
Acts 22:16 provides details concerning Paul's water baptism:

" And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16
Acts 22:16 actually proves that Saul wasn't saved UNTIL Ananias came to him. Recall that Saul had seen a vision about Ananias coming to him.

Acts 9
10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”“Yes, Lord,” he answered.
11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.
12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

It was when Ananias fulfilled that vision that Saul then realized that what he saw on the road to Damascus was real and that he had seen Jesus the Messiah.

So, Saul received the Holy Spirit WHEN he believed. Like all Jews did. It was the Gentiles who didn't uniformity receive the Spirit initially.
 

FreeGrace2

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Water baptism has always been necessary:
It has never been necessary. Only faith is necessary.

Paul's conversion experience: "And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." Paul was told he must be filled with the Holy Ghost and be baptized. (Acts 9:17-18) Acts 22:16 provides details concerning Paul's water baptism: "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16
The phrase "calling opon the name of the Lord" means to believe on the Name of the Lord. That's what "washes away sins"; faith in Christ, which is what Luke wrote in Acts 10:43.

Jews at Pentecost conversion experience: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:36-41
The key here is the command to "repent". These Jews were being told to CHANGE THEIR MINDS about the man Jesus, whom they participated in His death. By changing their minds and BELIEVING that the man Jesus is also the Son of God, they would be saved. What follows faith in Christ is baptism, a RITUAL and SYMBOL (1 Peter 3:21) of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the ONLY bapism that saves.

Eph 1:13 describes the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
 

Wansvic

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*** IMPORTANT NOTICE from GOD ***

#1.) Paul is saved at the appearing of the LORD to him.
#2.) Ananias lays hands on Paul and prays for him and Paul receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
#3.) LAST and LEAST = Paul is water baptized.

You said: "Water baptism has always been necessary:" = NO = it NEVER can Save you = only for obedience unto righteousness
The baptism of the Holy Ghost is when the indwelling takes place. And according to Paul a person is not a child of God if they do not have His Spirit dwelling within them. (Romans 8:9) Also, without remission of sin it is impossible to ENTER the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)
 

Wansvic

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*** IMPORTANT NOTICE from GOD ***

#1.) Paul is saved at the appearing of the LORD to him.
#2.) Ananias lays hands on Paul and prays for him and Paul receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
#3.) LAST and LEAST = Paul is water baptized.

You said: "Water baptism has always been necessary:" = NO = it NEVER can Save you = only for obedience unto righteousness
Also, no where is it stated Paul was saved the moment the Lord appeared unto him. Rather, Jesus Himself sent Paul to someone who told him what he must do.
 

Wansvic

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It has never been necessary. Only faith is necessary.


The phrase "calling opon the name of the Lord" means to believe on the Name of the Lord. That's what "washes away sins"; faith in Christ, which is what Luke wrote in Acts 10:43.


The key here is the command to "repent". These Jews were being told to CHANGE THEIR MINDS about the man Jesus, whom they participated in His death. By changing their minds and BELIEVING that the man Jesus is also the Son of God, they would be saved. What follows faith in Christ is baptism, a RITUAL and SYMBOL (1 Peter 3:21) of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the ONLY bapism that saves.

Eph 1:13 describes the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures speak for themselves. However, many have eyes but do not see. This can be remedied by accepting what is stated and being obedient to the command as stated. As Jesus said, unless a man is born again he cannot SEE the kingdom.

You and I have discussed this topic and still do not agree. However, God is the one who reveals the truth to hungry hearts. Amen.
 

DavidTree

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Also, no where is it stated Paul was saved the moment the Lord appeared unto him. Rather, Jesus Himself sent Paul to someone who told him what he must do.
Paul immediately believed the word of the LORD as soon as HE said "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting"
Paul OBEYED the WORD = Faith = It does not matter how small our faith may begin = "mustard seed"

As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.
He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?”
“Who are You, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” He replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
 

DavidTree

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The baptism of the Holy Ghost is when the indwelling takes place. And according to Paul a person is not a child of God if they do not have His Spirit dwelling within them. (Romans 8:9) Also, without remission of sin it is impossible to ENTER the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)

The NEW BIRTH is when the Holy Spirit circumcises the heart of a man to hear and believe the Word.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a Separate Annointing.

ALL who are Saved have been Born Again by the Spirit.
 

DavidTree

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The baptism of the Holy Ghost is when the indwelling takes place. And according to Paul a person is not a child of God if they do not have His Spirit dwelling within them. (Romans 8:9) Also, without remission of sin it is impossible to ENTER the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)
The Apostles and those believing diciples of Christ who were waiting for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit were ALL SAVED.

"And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Acts ch1
 
May 2, 2022
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"Outward sign of an inner grace" isn't really scripture though and I am kind of a stickler about that. Actually none of what you said seems to be scripture, but rather your own commentary.

Can you see that water baptism is for being resurrected after reading the OP?
1 Peter 3:21 is close enough.

There are some who insist baptism saves. That's not Biblical but there are those who are sticklers to that notion and insist it is.
 

Pilgrimshope

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If one's sins are not remitted they are not saved. I cannot see any way clear of that. How is me attempting to make my point clear arguing if you are not arguing in doing the same? It does seem you miss something very vital, but I cannot force you to see it.
“If one's sins are not remitted they are not saved.I cannot see any way clear of that”

Yeah that’s what God established baptism for ,they should hear and believe this and have thoer sins remitted like Gods word says

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

that way they know they have obeyed what the lord said remits sin and it witnesses to thier own conscience that thier sins are remitted.

“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

getting baptized is the believer doing what God said remits sin sort of the whole point of baptism.

that being said Jesus never said “ if anyone believes the gospel and fails to get baptized to over lost or damned
that’s sort of my point the Bible me says what it says we shouldn’t make connections That aren’t there ( just my belief ) we know Jesus said this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

so we know that believing the gospel and getting baptized for remission of sins in Jesus name he said they shall be saved. It’s important we know Jesus said that it isn’t an addition by me or anyone else it’s in everyone’s Bible

there’s salvation in that verse but the condemnation in it isn’t that the person believed the gospel and failed to get baptized it is if they refuse to believe that condemns them

baptism isn’t about condemning anyone lol it’s about remission of sins in christs name through his blood shed on the cross for remission of sins

it isn’t a “ rule “ it’s a blessing offered by God to confirm remission of sins to agree with the bloodshed of Jesus Christ and his name for remission of sins

I think your looking at it dofferent from me there’s no scriptire that says “ if you believe the gospel and repent but yet you fail to get baptized your damned “

that’s why I don’t agree with that assumption but there are many verses connecting baptism to remission of sins in Jesus name and salvation

I don’t feel Personally it’s my place to look for reasons people can’t be saved but to just accept what God said regards salvstion like baptism for remission of sins in Jesus name regards salvation

God isn’t looking to find what we fell short on but what we believe and live out. Baptism in scripture has a single ordained purpose designed by God.

because we want to say “ water doesn’t mean anything “ doesn’t change what’s in scriptire it’s Gods proscribed method of remission of sins it’s also consistent throughout the New Testament before the cross and also after the cross

you can get baptized forst and then receive the Holy Ghost like this

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or you can receive the Holy Ghost because you believe the gospel and then get baptized like this

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

It’s odd we can’t find agreement on something so basic and simple and clearly stated repetitively in scriptire esepcially when there’s no scripture that takes it away or changes it. It’s like there’s no support for one idea but the Bible is consistently saying the same thing of the other idea

but no I don’t think someone who repents and believes the gospel is going to be damned because they didn’t understand baptism . I only say that again because it’s not found in the Bible this is


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”

at that point the believer it seems like who heard that and didn’t dismiss it would receive it with joy as it is Gods promise of remission of sins and gladly get baptized and tell mothers about what they learned regarding believing the gospel and getting baptized for remission of sins

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
May 2, 2022
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1 Peter 3:21 is close enough.

There are some who insist baptism saves. That's not Biblical but there are those who are sticklers to that notion and insist it is.
It's easy to look up in a search engine . "Baptism outward sign inner grace".

It's Biblical. If one thinks biblical means it has to appear word for word, any idea, teaching, ideology, foctrine, they may want to close their bibles and read some other piece of literature.

God isn't found in structures built by human hands. Or in books. God inspired men to write the book. Bible-Biblos-book. Men didn't capture God in the book.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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The baptism of the Holy Ghost is when the indwelling takes place.
Exactly! Eph 1:13 describes this:
"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,"

Water baptism then follows, symbolizing this union with Christ, or being "included in Christ".

Rom 6
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

This passage describes the believer's UNION WITH CHRIST, as shown in the bolded words. Which relate back to Eph 1:13.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit places the believer into UNION with Christ.

And according to Paul a person is not a child of God if they do not have His Spirit dwelling within them. (Romans 8:9)
And Paul taught that those who believe have the Holy Spirit.

Gal 3
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

It's all about faith.

Also, without remission of sin it is impossible to ENTER the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)
Remission, or forgiveness, of sin occurs by faith in His Name. Acts 10:43
 
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it saves not baptism but grace

which should be received by faith

but first faith should be imputed into righteousness-it means to be correct


then God gives minimum of grace for salvation of spirit

then starts salvation of soul and body
 
May 14, 2022
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it saves not baptism but grace

which should be received by faith

but first faith should be imputed into righteousness-it means to be correct


then God gives minimum of grace for salvation of spirit

then starts salvation of soul and body

the baptism of the Holy Spirit starts the baptism into Christ-into His Body
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
It has never been necessary. Only faith is necessary.

The phrase "calling opon the name of the Lord" means to believe on the Name of the Lord. That's what "washes away sins"; faith in Christ, which is what Luke wrote in Acts 10:43.

The key here is the command to "repent". These Jews were being told to CHANGE THEIR MINDS about the man Jesus, whom they participated in His death. By changing their minds and BELIEVING that the man Jesus is also the Son of God, they would be saved. What follows faith in Christ is baptism, a RITUAL and SYMBOL (1 Peter 3:21) of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the ONLY bapism that saves.

Eph 1:13 describes the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures speak for themselves. However, many have eyes but do not see.
Do you NOT "see" Eph 1:13 then?

This can be remedied by accepting what is stated and being obedient to the command as stated. As Jesus said, unless a man is born again he cannot SEE the kingdom.
And how is a man born again? Paul equates regeneration with salvation in Eph 2:5-
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

The 2 bolded phrases are equated in this verse.

Then, v.8 tells us the means of being saved.

v.8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Do you NOT "see" how a man is saved here? THROUGH FAITH is how.

Then, the next verse is added:
v.9 - not by works, so that no one can boast.

iow, nothing a man DOES results in salvation. Water baptism is something that a man DOES.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
The words "saved by water" is totally misleading. In fact, the 8 were saved FROM the water. Everyone knows that the entire population of the earth were immersed in the flood and DIED IN the water. iow, the water KILLED them.

No one is saved BY water, unless it's a very dehydrated person. But as you know, we're not talking about that situation.

The 8 were NOT SAVED BY WATER. The ark kept them from being KILLED BY the water.

The best translation is "saved THROUGH water". And that cannot mean "by". Not by any stretch.

Two examples of people being immersed which KILLED them.

Noah's flood which killed the population of the earth, minus 8, and the Red Sea which killed all the Egyptian army.