Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
5,837
2,218
113
#61
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptised shall be saved, those who believe not are condemned.

Water Baptism shows that you are a believer its an outward act of an inward reality. This is why Jesus was baptised in the river Jordan. So that the world may know. He could have said I dont need to be water baptised, Ive already got the Holy spirit, but he didnt.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#62
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptised shall be saved, those who believe not are condemned.

Water Baptism shows that you are a believer its an outward act of an inward reality. This is why Jesus was baptised in the river Jordan. So that the world may know. He could have said I dont need to be water baptised, Ive already got the Holy spirit, but he didnt.
That verse does not say water baptism. It would be an error to Assume it does.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,526
465
83
#63
Hello Wansvic,

I have a couple of questions.

In post #1 you talked about John water baptizing in the wilderness.

And in this post you site Pentecost.

My questions are:

1) Are there any gentiles being water baptized in the wilderness?

2) During Pentecost, are there any gentiles on the Temple Mt that get baptized in the Holy Spirit? Thx in advance, FD
1. it is important to understand that the introduction of the need for water baptism, and the saving grace of water baptisms performed in Jesus name after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection are two entirely different matters.
2. All of mankind is in the wilderness until they are spiritually reborn by the hand of God and become His child.
3. John the Baptist was a vessel used by God to introduce the need for water baptism to the New Testament church.
4. The water baptisms John introduced, and performed on those who wanted to obey the command was void of God's power because Jesus had not died, been buried, and resurrected yet. There is POWER in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
5. The bible record seems to indicate that Jews alone were present on the Day of Pentecost.
6. The way for Gentiles was opened afterward for we see in Acts 10:44-48 after hearing the entire message they took action and their obedience spoke of their indwelling faith.
7. God is all knowing. He set the salvation plan in motion and He alone knows the intricacies of His overall design. Our job is to by faith be obedient submitting ourselves to His commands-Faith in operation.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#64
1. it is important to understand that the introduction of the need for water baptism, and the saving grace of water baptisms performed in Jesus name after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection are two entirely different matters.
Grace means unmerited, Not by works

If grace is bound on the work of water baptism. It is not grace..By adding water baptism your makimg the gospel a gosel of works. NOT grace.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
5,837
2,218
113
#65
I never said it was water baptism I am just quoting what the Bible says and giving an illustration that Jesus himself was baptised in water and he did not refuse to do this.
Even John questioned Jesus wanting to be baptised in water by him but Jesus did it anyway.

So if Jesus did this, why would we not do as Jesus did.

Baptism in water is only efficious if the person has repented and believes. If they do not believe, its just a dunk in the water. To quibble about it being water is neither here nor there, we know water reperesents washing away sin, and also burial and raising. When you plant a seed, do you not water it in?

Just as baptism of fire is like refining. Its illustrating a spiritual truth. None of us right now is being baptised in fire. Otherwise there would be fiery furnaces in all churches. I dont see anyone arguing that we shall all be put in the fire though. Hmmm anyone brave enough?
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#66
I never said it was water baptism I am just quoting what the Bible says and giving an illustration that Jesus himself was baptised in water and he did not refuse to do this.
Even John questioned Jesus wanting to be baptised in water by him but Jesus did it anyway.

So if Jesus did this, why would we not do as Jesus did.

Baptism in water is only efficious if the person has repented and believes. If they do not believe, its just a dunk in the water. To quibble about it being water is neither here nor there, we know water reperesents washing away sin, and also burial and raising. When you plant a seed, do you not water it in?

Just as baptism of fire is like refining. Its illustrating a spiritual truth. None of us right now is being baptised in fire. Otherwise there would be fiery furnaces in all churches. I dont see anyone arguing that we shall all be put in the fire though. Hmmm anyone brave enough?
No one is saying do not be baptised

What people are saying is do not get baptised thinking it will save you or have any part of your salvation, But in appreciation and love for what God has already done for you (Salvation the washing of regeneration of the holy spirit)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,526
465
83
#67
I never said it was water baptism I am just quoting what the Bible says and giving an illustration that Jesus himself was baptised in water and he did not refuse to do this.
Even John questioned Jesus wanting to be baptised in water by him but Jesus did it anyway.

So if Jesus did this, why would we not do as Jesus did.

Baptism in water is only efficious if the person has repented and believes. If they do not believe, its just a dunk in the water. To quibble about it being water is neither here nor there, we know water reperesents washing away sin, and also burial and raising. When you plant a seed, do you not water it in?

Just as baptism of fire is like refining. Its illustrating a spiritual truth. None of us right now is being baptised in fire. Otherwise there would be fiery furnaces in all churches. I dont see anyone arguing that we shall all be put in the fire though. Hmmm anyone brave enough?
Something else interesting in the biblical record of Jesus' water baptism is the fact that he told John it must be done to fulfill all righteousness.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#68
Something else interesting in the biblical record of Jesus' water baptism is the fact that he told John it must be done to fulfill all righteousness.
Yes why

To show the world. That the one to whome it witnesses the spirit of God descending like a dove on immediately after he is baptised is the one who baptises with the HS. (Like Arron when moses washed (baptised) him in the jordan in front of the people of Israal who would be high priest)


Not because jesus needed saved.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,374
2,506
113
#69
So wansvic what about that speaking in tongues as evidence of getting the Holy Spirit? Yes or no? what do you believe?

And one more thing: Why would Jesus reject someone for being baptized the way He said? (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)?

I believe both ways are BIBLICAL and VALID because God sees the heart and because the Bible cant contain errors AND because when you know Jesus, you know He wont just say to someone on judgment day "Oh well too bad you used to wrong baptism formula, its over for you" I just dont see that as a realistic option.

Here is an article about this topic: https://carm.org/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name

"
Therefore, the Oneness Pentecostal people are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done with the formula "In Jesus name." Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," (Matt. 28:19).

The proper way to baptize in Jesus' name is to say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.""

This article agrees with me in that the name of the Lord is abbreviation on the baptismal formula laid out by Jesus. This is not just my imagination the early church witness confirms this! I can look up the references IF you take any interest in what they thought, i realize some people believe they were all heretics.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,526
465
83
#70
No one is saying do not be baptised

What people are saying is do not get baptised thinking it will save you or have any part of your salvation, But in appreciation and love for what God has already done for you (Salvation the washing of regeneration of the holy spirit)
Something to ponder. To deny the salvation plan concepts that God has established is to deny the complete work of Jesus. Faith is seen in one's actions of obedience to all of God's commands. Whether one understands them or not. That's walking in Faith. We are not called to figure out something then be obedient. Upon seeing the printed words on the pages of the bible in Acts 2:38 each is called to obey. Upon obedience light/understanding begins to grow.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#71
Something to ponder. To deny the salvation plan concepts that God has established is to deny the complete work of Jesus. Faith is seen in one's actions of obedience to all of God's commands. Whether one understands them or not. That's walking in Faith. We are not called to figure out something then be obedient. Upon seeing the printed words on the pages of the bible in Acts 2:38 each is called to obey. Upon obedience light/understanding begins to grow.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
Well I do not need to ponder this, Because as with ALL of Gods children, People who have faith in God tend to do what God desires. Thats why they would follow his first command and be baptised.
But when we are obeying God only because we expect something in return (like say salvation) Then we are trying to earn somthing whihc we can not earn.

If we could be saved by baptism God would have just told us to be baptised. And not suffer the cross.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,374
2,506
113
#72
People who have faith in God tend to do what God desires. Thats why they would follow his first command and be baptised.
This this this. I have always said this is christianity's self inflicted wound this baptism debate. I dont know of many christians who havent gotten baptized within a month of their coming to the faith. Its just something "standard" that everyone does.

Unfortunately im not the protestant pope so people still have to wait WEEKS to get baptized, instead of being dunked immediately the SAME DAY, so there is no room for procrasinating and doubts and wondering. And no "stage freight". If we did that this debate would be non-existant.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,526
465
83
#73
Well I do not need to ponder this, Because as with ALL of Gods children, People who have faith in God tend to do what God desires. Thats why they would follow his first command and be baptised.
But when we are obeying God only because we expect something in return (like say salvation) Then we are trying to earn somthing whihc we can not earn.

If we could be saved by baptism God would have just told us to be baptised. And not suffer the cross.
No one is saying obedience to water baptism alone saves a person. Obedience to ALL of the instructions given on the Day of Pentecost is mandatory. Mankind is called to follow all of God's instructions not make up their own mind as to those they are willing to accept and those they feel can be rejected.

The scripture noted, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
Jesus Himself is stating the words, in this particular scripture, that only those doing the will of the father will enter Heaven.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#74
No one is saying obedience to water baptism alone saves a person. Obedience to ALL of the instructions given on the Day of Pentecost is mandatory. Mankind is called to follow all of God's instructions not make up their own mind as to those they are willing to accept and those they feel can be rejected.
So we are saved by works, Not by grace. Thank you. You just showed your true gospel.

]The scripture noted, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
Jesus Himself is stating the words, in this particular scripture, that only those doing the will of the father will enter Heaven.
Actually this speaks of peole like you. People who try to tell God he mist save them because they did all these works. (Got baptised. Went to church, Healed people and all the possible works one can thin of doing) and What does God say? Depart from me FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU WHO PRACTICE UNRIGHTEUSNESS.

We are saved by Gods mery, Not by works of righteousness which we have done (titus 3: 5) Your teaching we ARE saved by works of righteousness.

I chose to trust Paul and place my faith in christ, Not my self righteous deeds.


People who are saved DO do the works of God. There is no MIGHT about it. So of course those who are saved are those who obey. However, they do not obey to GET SAVED (like your preaching) they obey BECAUSE THEY GOT SAVED! (By Gods mercy not by their own works)
 

Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
180
69
28
#75
GOD places us INTO the body of Christ.

What is so hard about this?
I'm a victim of public education. See, I grew up with teachers standing over my desk reading my school work and speaking aloud my wrong answers to the class. So I'm very familiar with the backhanded insult: "What's so hard about this?" that you put out there.
 

Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
180
69
28
#76
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptised shall be saved, those who believe not are condemned.

Water Baptism shows that you are a believer its an outward act of an inward reality. This is why Jesus was baptised in the river Jordan. So that the world may know. He could have said I dont need to be water baptised, Ive already got the Holy spirit, but he didnt.
I would also agree that it's water baptism. I don't think you are assuming anything, as suggested by one. Assuming you are assuming, is an assumption itself.
 

Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
180
69
28
#77
No one is saying obedience to water baptism alone saves a person. Obedience to ALL of the instructions given on the Day of Pentecost is mandatory. Mankind is called to follow all of God's instructions not make up their own mind as to those they are willing to accept and those they feel can be rejected.

The scripture noted, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
Jesus Himself is stating the words, in this particular scripture, that only those doing the will of the father will enter Heaven.
Saved by grace will (has popped up) in one of the replies to what you wrote. I see the gospel and the command of Peter, the inspired apostle of Jesus Christ all part of grace. Verse 37 is a cry: What shall we do? Do this: Repent and be baptized.
All part of God's plan to save, His grace. Not my definition, but an actual example from ACTS.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#78
I'm a victim of public education. See, I grew up with teachers standing over my desk reading my school work and speaking aloud my wrong answers to the class. So I'm very familiar with the backhanded insult: "What's so hard about this?" that you put out there.
But you Can’t refute what I said. (If you could have you wuld have)

Thanks, Thats all thats needed to be shown.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,572
12,708
113
#80
That's your assumption. Eternally grateful! Grateful? Come across arrogant, belittling.
All I did was ask a question.

Your the one who assumed my motive, and you were wrong. Now you continue to try to blame shift.

again, I ask, what is so hard about what I said, can you answer or not?