people don't understand why love fulfills the law because they don't understand spiritual love this isn't any ordinary love this is the love of God that is in you, that is how we receive spiritual love when God dwells within us and through that we live in love and fulfill the law, remember love works no ill treatment against their neighbor that is why love is the fulfilling of the law,
We know about throwing out law, does the law have anything good about it??
- Thread starter RedTent
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Let's say you against law are all correct, it is what God wants of us. That "nailed to the cross" does not mean that God forgives us, but it means the law was only temporary. That the 613 laws were not given to help establish a safe world, but are just something we can be thankful for to be rid of. That when Christ came with a new covenant, Christ didn't give us something more but Christ came to replace everything old of His Father. That what Christ had against the Pharisees was that they tried to obey. I see things differently, but let's say you are all right about what God says, and I am wrong. That isn't the point of this thread at all. I would like to explore what effect the law had on the life here on the people who used it for a life guide. Not for eternal life, but how it affects their contemporary life. Even the ritual law that Paul spoke so against teaching instead of teaching gospel.
Even living under ceremonial law of Moses, as well as moral law has attracted people through the ages. Even in the OT it talks of gentiles wanting to join them. In the dark ages, even though Christians killed and persecuted them, their colonies thrived. The colonies of law keeping Jews today are attractive to many Jews, even though the media laughs at them and most Jews have abandoned their God. This thread is about exploring what there is that is so attractive about the law's ability to produce happiness in the people who use it for a living style, even the ceremonial law we consider useless.
Even living under ceremonial law of Moses, as well as moral law has attracted people through the ages. Even in the OT it talks of gentiles wanting to join them. In the dark ages, even though Christians killed and persecuted them, their colonies thrived. The colonies of law keeping Jews today are attractive to many Jews, even though the media laughs at them and most Jews have abandoned their God. This thread is about exploring what there is that is so attractive about the law's ability to produce happiness in the people who use it for a living style, even the ceremonial law we consider useless.
can i ask everyone a series of questions please, did you truly receive christ? what events took place when you received him? it's the same spirit in different persons so everyone who receive christ will experience the same thing, and what i felt when i let God come into me was the love of God that enabled me to just live in love no matter what emotions i felt, i could not look at a woman and lust anymore because of that love, i could not ill treat anyone and the people i once hated i had no choice but to forgive because i could not help myself but love, that is the fulfillment of the law right there and everyone that receives christ receive this love and are able to live in this spiritual love
Hasidic Judaism not only has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, it has nothing to do with Moses.
makes for a good life? because Lis Harris says so?
what does any of that have to do with the God of the Bible, Redtent?
Holy Days: The World Of The Hasidic Famil
Holy Days: The World Of The Hasidic Family: Lis Harris: 9780684813660: Amazon.com: Books
here's another look - from a former insider.
My name is Shmarya Rosenberg...
About Me - FailedMessiah.com
i find it pretty sad that you dare to mix Orthodox Judaism, which places the Oral Law (from BABYLON) above Moses and the prophets, nullifying them....the very thing Jesus condemned - in a thread on a Christian forum - while trying to claim you even understand Moses and the Prophets - saying things like:
let us explore how the Law works without Jesus?
and your own exploration took you to THIS:?
...
The Oral Law and the Sinai Revelations
To understand this, one must first know about the traditional Jewish belief that there were two revelations at Mt. Sinai, the Written Law and the Oral Law.
According to Orthodox Jewish belief, the Written Law that Moses received from the Lord is only part of God's revelation. Another Law was revealed as well, and handed down orally through generations. This Oral Law is said to be the necessary accompaniment that makes the commandments of the Written Law intelligible.
For example, the Written Law tells us "...you may slaughter from your herd and from your flock...just as I have commanded you" (Deuteronomy 12:21). But when you search the Scriptures for specific instructions about slaughtering, you will search in vain. From these and many such instances in the Bible, the Jewish sages have posited an Oral Law that completes the written letter of the Lord's commands.1
So, if the Written Law is the "point A to point B" of the Lord's roadmap, the Oral Law is the indispensable "travel guide" that will get you there.
The Talmud - The Oral Law and Commentary
For centuries, the Oral Law was just that-a tradition passed down by "word of mouth" by the great teachers of Israel. However, the destruction of the Temple in A.D.70 and the devastation of Jerusalem in A.D. 135 created a national and religious emergency. Religious leaders were scattered and scarce. For this reason, in about the year 200, the great Jewish sage, Rabbi Yehudah ha Nasi (Judah the Prince), did what no one had ever done before-he began to write down the Oral Law....
The Oral Law: Judaism's Roadmap for Righteousness | Chosen People Ministries
makes for a good life? because Lis Harris says so?
what does any of that have to do with the God of the Bible, Redtent?
Holy Days: The World Of The Hasidic Famil
Holy Days: The World Of The Hasidic Family: Lis Harris: 9780684813660: Amazon.com: Books
here's another look - from a former insider.
My name is Shmarya Rosenberg...
About Me - FailedMessiah.com
i find it pretty sad that you dare to mix Orthodox Judaism, which places the Oral Law (from BABYLON) above Moses and the prophets, nullifying them....the very thing Jesus condemned - in a thread on a Christian forum - while trying to claim you even understand Moses and the Prophets - saying things like:
let us explore how the Law works without Jesus?
and your own exploration took you to THIS:?
...
The Oral Law and the Sinai Revelations
To understand this, one must first know about the traditional Jewish belief that there were two revelations at Mt. Sinai, the Written Law and the Oral Law.
According to Orthodox Jewish belief, the Written Law that Moses received from the Lord is only part of God's revelation. Another Law was revealed as well, and handed down orally through generations. This Oral Law is said to be the necessary accompaniment that makes the commandments of the Written Law intelligible.
For example, the Written Law tells us "...you may slaughter from your herd and from your flock...just as I have commanded you" (Deuteronomy 12:21). But when you search the Scriptures for specific instructions about slaughtering, you will search in vain. From these and many such instances in the Bible, the Jewish sages have posited an Oral Law that completes the written letter of the Lord's commands.1
So, if the Written Law is the "point A to point B" of the Lord's roadmap, the Oral Law is the indispensable "travel guide" that will get you there.
The Talmud - The Oral Law and Commentary
For centuries, the Oral Law was just that-a tradition passed down by "word of mouth" by the great teachers of Israel. However, the destruction of the Temple in A.D.70 and the devastation of Jerusalem in A.D. 135 created a national and religious emergency. Religious leaders were scattered and scarce. For this reason, in about the year 200, the great Jewish sage, Rabbi Yehudah ha Nasi (Judah the Prince), did what no one had ever done before-he began to write down the Oral Law....
The Oral Law: Judaism's Roadmap for Righteousness | Chosen People Ministries
i really don't know about your condition, RedTent.
if you want to live under the secretive; repressive; inward and extremist Babylonian Oral Law keepers in Judaism - go for it.
it has NOTHING to do with the Living God.
shocking...whether this is naïveté or deception on your part matters little at this point.
"Now lets explore how the law works without Jesus.
That should tell us if God wants us to add the law to Jesus."
God does not want us to add Babylon Talmudism and kabbalistic Oral Traditions to Jesus.
you seem to think He does.
if you want to live under the secretive; repressive; inward and extremist Babylonian Oral Law keepers in Judaism - go for it.
it has NOTHING to do with the Living God.
shocking...whether this is naïveté or deception on your part matters little at this point.
"Now lets explore how the law works without Jesus.
That should tell us if God wants us to add the law to Jesus."
God does not want us to add Babylon Talmudism and kabbalistic Oral Traditions to Jesus.
you seem to think He does.
No one who looks for truth can say that the living God had nothing to do with what is written in the bible. God does not write secretive, repressive, Babylonian law.
Also, I am not afraid to even explore this law. Why are you so afraid of even thinking about it? God is not the author of fear.
Jews are living the law without acknowledging the Jesus of the year 33. If we look at what the law is doing in their life, it could show us what God gave us the law for. I am not afraid to look at it, even though there is no way that living without Jesus in my life could be possible. I am not afraid of the law or of thinking about it. If you are, I wonder if you truly have Jesus? I know you look at many things that do not even start with God, things I wouldn't think of going into. Yet you are afraid of something that comes from scripture!
Also, I am not afraid to even explore this law. Why are you so afraid of even thinking about it? God is not the author of fear.
Jews are living the law without acknowledging the Jesus of the year 33. If we look at what the law is doing in their life, it could show us what God gave us the law for. I am not afraid to look at it, even though there is no way that living without Jesus in my life could be possible. I am not afraid of the law or of thinking about it. If you are, I wonder if you truly have Jesus? I know you look at many things that do not even start with God, things I wouldn't think of going into. Yet you are afraid of something that comes from scripture!
you think i'm afraid to consider it?
i'll tell you what. you start a thread on Babylonian Oral Law and we'll see all about it.
maybe it's time we did.
nice try. you and your rituals and your astonishing belief that Judaism has anything whatsoever to do with God reveals where your heart is.
you want to take Jesus OUT OF THE EQUATION, and look to Judaism, where jews are supposedly keeping the law (without Christ, mind you, and with the Oral Law which boasts that the TALMUD is the burial ground of Moses), and are honoring God, and He is honoring THAT?
really?
THE Jesus of the year 33AD?
who is that redtent?
well well well.
it is time for a new thread then.
i'll tell you what. you start a thread on Babylonian Oral Law and we'll see all about it.
maybe it's time we did.
nice try. you and your rituals and your astonishing belief that Judaism has anything whatsoever to do with God reveals where your heart is.
you want to take Jesus OUT OF THE EQUATION, and look to Judaism, where jews are supposedly keeping the law (without Christ, mind you, and with the Oral Law which boasts that the TALMUD is the burial ground of Moses), and are honoring God, and He is honoring THAT?
really?
THE Jesus of the year 33AD?
who is that redtent?
well well well.
it is time for a new thread then.
That is what I said "Hasidic Judaism has nothing to do with Jesus". If we look at it, we are looking at the law only, to find out why God gave the law. Understanding the law is not something Jesus would say not to do, Jesus would say that this is what He came to forgive us for so the law does not lead to death. He would not say it is wrong it think about and find out all we can about it.
Being Hasidic Jews even obey ceremonial law, your book recommendation about the negative results of this is helpful for this thread. It is exploring law.
I thought you were preaching that we may not even think about law? Now you give a book about it. Or are you saying we may study the negatives of law, but never the positive?
We are not given the oral law, I don't think it applies. We are given scripture, and law is included in scripture. Oral law is not.
Being Hasidic Jews even obey ceremonial law, your book recommendation about the negative results of this is helpful for this thread. It is exploring law.
I thought you were preaching that we may not even think about law? Now you give a book about it. Or are you saying we may study the negatives of law, but never the positive?
We are not given the oral law, I don't think it applies. We are given scripture, and law is included in scripture. Oral law is not.
i mean to unbelievers brother don people not don't know christ they need to see something is real our testimonies are powerful, you see people knew how i was before and then i suddenly changed so they would see something made me that way from my testimony, understand? i'm off to church though, God bless everyone
N
Some one here said "" the "law" is nailed to the cross."" One big problem with a statement like that , Anyone ???
That is NOT written!
Doses anyone, anymore , actually confirm in the scriptures , what is said before you say it ? Or are you just going off of what people are telling you what the Bible says & means ?
There is a little thing called ORDINANCES .
People who do not study, often get these things confused, because in the English, when you read about laws, it can also be talking about the laws in ORDINANCES, and Not the ten commandments and laws of that nature. They are two separate things. . What ordinance am I talking about ?
Num. 28:15–29:38 ; Lev. 4 and 5 ( where the ORDINANCES , prescribed in the law going to save you ? ) Again try to separate the differences in your mind between LAW AND BLOOD Ritual ORDINANCES.
Colossians 2:10-14
King James Version (KJV)
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The "handwriting of ordinances" is not the Ten Commandments which were written on two tables of stone by God's own hand ( Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, )
Dose it say the Law was nailed to the cross , or dose it say Ordinances was nailed to the cross ? I mean, we can either take God's words for this, or mans words. Who authored the Bible ? What it man or God ?
So if man says, the Law was nailed to the cross, are we going to listen to man now ?
Or are we going to Listen to God's words, which state the Ordinances were nailed to the Cross ?
Are we going to listen to Christ, who says the Law will not ever bee changed so long as heaven and earth exist ?
Hey I know who I'm going to listen to, and its certainly not going to be the traditions of men.
Psalm 119:97
King James Version (KJV)
97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
The handwriting of ordinances Paul says is , "contrary to us". This is not the Ten Commandments.
Psalms 119:97 .
King David, the patriarchs, and Yahshua Himself kept and obeyed Gods law.
We might act contrary to His Law, but certainly His Law is not against or contrary to us.
The problem was always with man, never with the law.
Romans 7:
( 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. )
- 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
God's law was never blotted out, or erased.
Revelation 12:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Paul elsewhere uses the term tables of stone (2Cor. 3:3), but he does not do so here in the letter to the Colossians. This cannot be referring to the Ten Commandments, which were placed inside the ark (Hebrews 9:3-4). The writer of Hebrews refers to them as the tables of the covenant.
Neither were the ordinances referred to here the sacrificial law of animal offerings. The animal offerings did indeed cease when Christ became the complete sacrifice for our sins by offering up His sinless life for us.
All the animal offerings & sacrifices in the Old Testament pointed to some phase of the redemptive work of the Messiah. The ceremonial law was set in abeyance at that time.
There is No mention of God's Ten commandments, Nor God's other commandments in the Law.... What is , taught that was stopped and contrary to us, was the animal scarifies prescribed by the law to forgive sins. That, is what """law"""" you could not live under, was the ordinances of burnt offerings to forgive sins ( also the Circumcision of the flesh of the old covenant )
Hebrews 10
King James Version (KJV)
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul........................
This is NOT about God's laws found in the ten commandments nor His other laws. We just read it.
The word from which ordinances is translated is the Greek dogma, and it occurs six times in the New Testament.
The Strong's Concordance shows the word Ordinance and that it means here :
Colossians 2:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
δόγμα
dogma
dog'-mah
From the base of G1380 ; a law ({civil} ceremonial or ecclesiastical ): - {decree} ordinance.
Just note, Ordinances are separate from God's commandments in; the Law of the ten commandments, the laws against homosexuality , food laws even, and many many others.
Note like I said some times in the English, the word law, is used, but often in those cases that confuse people into thinking its talking about the ten commandments, its talking really about the Ordinances and the law of the old covenant such as circumcision .
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Colossians 2:8-12
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Now men are going to tray and deceive you by saying things like " the Law was nailed to the cross". That's vain deceit right there. That is after the traditions of men today. After he evil of the world, and Not after Christ .
You just better be on guard, because man can lead you on a road to hell without you even realizing it. I would stay studying God's words so that you can be deceived by ignorant people.
That is NOT written!
Doses anyone, anymore , actually confirm in the scriptures , what is said before you say it ? Or are you just going off of what people are telling you what the Bible says & means ?
There is a little thing called ORDINANCES .
People who do not study, often get these things confused, because in the English, when you read about laws, it can also be talking about the laws in ORDINANCES, and Not the ten commandments and laws of that nature. They are two separate things. . What ordinance am I talking about ?
Num. 28:15–29:38 ; Lev. 4 and 5 ( where the ORDINANCES , prescribed in the law going to save you ? ) Again try to separate the differences in your mind between LAW AND BLOOD Ritual ORDINANCES.
Colossians 2:10-14
King James Version (KJV)
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The "handwriting of ordinances" is not the Ten Commandments which were written on two tables of stone by God's own hand ( Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, )
Dose it say the Law was nailed to the cross , or dose it say Ordinances was nailed to the cross ? I mean, we can either take God's words for this, or mans words. Who authored the Bible ? What it man or God ?
So if man says, the Law was nailed to the cross, are we going to listen to man now ?
Or are we going to Listen to God's words, which state the Ordinances were nailed to the Cross ?
Are we going to listen to Christ, who says the Law will not ever bee changed so long as heaven and earth exist ?
Hey I know who I'm going to listen to, and its certainly not going to be the traditions of men.
Psalm 119:97
King James Version (KJV)
97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
The handwriting of ordinances Paul says is , "contrary to us". This is not the Ten Commandments.
Psalms 119:97 .
King David, the patriarchs, and Yahshua Himself kept and obeyed Gods law.
We might act contrary to His Law, but certainly His Law is not against or contrary to us.
The problem was always with man, never with the law.
Romans 7:
( 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. )
- 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
God's law was never blotted out, or erased.
Revelation 12:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Paul elsewhere uses the term tables of stone (2Cor. 3:3), but he does not do so here in the letter to the Colossians. This cannot be referring to the Ten Commandments, which were placed inside the ark (Hebrews 9:3-4). The writer of Hebrews refers to them as the tables of the covenant.
Neither were the ordinances referred to here the sacrificial law of animal offerings. The animal offerings did indeed cease when Christ became the complete sacrifice for our sins by offering up His sinless life for us.
All the animal offerings & sacrifices in the Old Testament pointed to some phase of the redemptive work of the Messiah. The ceremonial law was set in abeyance at that time.
There is No mention of God's Ten commandments, Nor God's other commandments in the Law.... What is , taught that was stopped and contrary to us, was the animal scarifies prescribed by the law to forgive sins. That, is what """law"""" you could not live under, was the ordinances of burnt offerings to forgive sins ( also the Circumcision of the flesh of the old covenant )
Hebrews 10
King James Version (KJV)
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul........................
This is NOT about God's laws found in the ten commandments nor His other laws. We just read it.
The word from which ordinances is translated is the Greek dogma, and it occurs six times in the New Testament.
The Strong's Concordance shows the word Ordinance and that it means here :
Colossians 2:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
δόγμα
dogma
dog'-mah
From the base of G1380 ; a law ({civil} ceremonial or ecclesiastical ): - {decree} ordinance.
Just note, Ordinances are separate from God's commandments in; the Law of the ten commandments, the laws against homosexuality , food laws even, and many many others.
Note like I said some times in the English, the word law, is used, but often in those cases that confuse people into thinking its talking about the ten commandments, its talking really about the Ordinances and the law of the old covenant such as circumcision .
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Colossians 2:8-12
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Now men are going to tray and deceive you by saying things like " the Law was nailed to the cross". That's vain deceit right there. That is after the traditions of men today. After he evil of the world, and Not after Christ .
You just better be on guard, because man can lead you on a road to hell without you even realizing it. I would stay studying God's words so that you can be deceived by ignorant people.
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is it? show me you saying that.
this is a pretty short thread and your OP is very clear.
are we? you think they follow God's Law?
ya...you do.
and you recommend looking at Orthodox Judaism as an example of looking at the Law?
if you want to find out about the Law, why don;t you read the New Testament, RedTent?
there's a little book written to the Galatians that lays it out for you.
that was YOUR BOOK recommendation...i posted the link to it.
so what other historical sources did you go to (after reading Lis Harris' report on Hasidic Judaism) which you incredibly believe makes for a "good life".
i posted a second resource on YOUR subject, from Shmarya Rosenberg, who knows quite a bit more than Lis Harris, or you apparently.
My name is Shmarya Rosenberg...
FailedMessiah.com
why don't you write Shmarya and ask him about the "good life". i did.
he'll write you back.
amazing.
then what are mixing it in for?
you are not to be trusted as a teacher or example to anyone claiming the name of Christ.
get your house in order RedTent. decide who you belong to.
2 Corinthians 6
14Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
...
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple.
All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a pretty short thread and your OP is very clear.
are we? you think they follow God's Law?
ya...you do.
and you recommend looking at Orthodox Judaism as an example of looking at the Law?
if you want to find out about the Law, why don;t you read the New Testament, RedTent?
there's a little book written to the Galatians that lays it out for you.
that was YOUR BOOK recommendation...i posted the link to it.
so what other historical sources did you go to (after reading Lis Harris' report on Hasidic Judaism) which you incredibly believe makes for a "good life".
i posted a second resource on YOUR subject, from Shmarya Rosenberg, who knows quite a bit more than Lis Harris, or you apparently.
My name is Shmarya Rosenberg...
FailedMessiah.com
why don't you write Shmarya and ask him about the "good life". i did.
he'll write you back.
amazing.
then what are mixing it in for?
you are not to be trusted as a teacher or example to anyone claiming the name of Christ.
get your house in order RedTent. decide who you belong to.
2 Corinthians 6
14Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
...
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple.
All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Zone, make sense!! Babylon? You don't know about the resurrection? Looking at law without Jesus is saying Jesus is not fundamental? You must be trying to fight rather than think!!! If you were one of God's people, you would want to reason about God, not fight. You have an excellent mind, why use it like this?
i am using my mind.
reads my posts on this thread.
and we'll see about who you think is keeping the Law....a new thread.
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple.
All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
reads my posts on this thread.
and we'll see about who you think is keeping the Law....a new thread.
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple.
All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia