We should probably spend more time in prayer asking for understanding

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ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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#21
It's funny, the church I've been going holds studies but I've yet to see them hold a prayer meeting. Just Wednesday we started another new study, and I asked when are we going to stop studying and put what we've learned to use in prayer. Didn't really get an answer.
LOL, not surprising. Hopefully you can prod them into more prayer time.
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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#23
in my church of ~ 150-200 people, about 80-100 would show up every sunday. about 25 would show up for wednesday Bible study. about 3 would show up for a prayer vigil. close to all 200 would show up for a picnic.
I've taken a hiatus from regular church attendance. They seem to be looking for an excuse to close the doors rather than a reason to keep them open. The primitive church met every day and one of the reasons they met was prayer. I realize people have families and jobs and every day might not be doable for everyone; but maybe we should learn a lesson from the early believers.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
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#24
We need to stop spiritualizing jesus. After all he is alive and willing to answer all who ask.
Searching scripture, prayer and patience is what the word suggest.
Does anyone realize that when they use commentaries, you tube, ect. they are taken in by another's thought process.
The Lord says "my people fail because of lack of knowledge."
The bible is its own commentary. The Holy Spirit is our helper.
Seeing the whole bible as the word of God not just the so called new testament.
Building upon foundational truth is the key to understanding.
Did you know that God's word says to speak out loud what is written when you read?
God's ways are higher than our ways but he did not leave out any how to understand his word.
We are to be a peculiar people if we believe that God's word is truth we must also believe that his ways of searching his truth is also truth.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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#25
I think also in addition to prayer, time dedicated to studying is also essential, like the Bereans.
Agree. If the great weakness of the church used to excessive intellectualism, now it is excessive emotionalism. I was once told, "Word without the Spirit and you'll dry up. Spirit without the Word and you'll blow up. Word and the Spirit and you'll grow up". I agree with that 100%.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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#26
I've taken a hiatus from regular church attendance. They seem to be looking for an excuse to close the doors rather than a reason to keep them open. The primitive church met every day and one of the reasons they met was prayer. I realize people have families and jobs and every day might not be doable for everyone; but maybe we should learn a lesson from the early believers.
It is possible if the group is small. I left denominational Christianity in 1982 to join a home based group. We met most days, even if it was for a few minutes before and after work. The pastor worked. He had one day to himself and his family. We got together without him.

It does not have to be overtly Christian things either. We regularly had a day to wash our cars. Everyone pitched in. What could be a chore became a bit of fun and fellowship. We got the shortest of us to wash the wheels, for example. Afterwards a bit of lunch. If someone struggled to keep their garden in shape, the guys would mow the lawn and such. Sunday we would have a morning breakfast meeting down the beach. Eggs, bacon and Jesus. Unbeatable.
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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#27
Amen. We need the Spirit of Wisdom and revelation. I heard a preacher on this subject not long after I was saved. I pray this often for myself and I believe that I have received much revelation over the years. We also need to know that it is the Holy Spirit's job to lead us into the truth (John 16:12-15).

The mind is an excellent servant but a terrible master. Simply looking at a Bible verse and working out what it means is a recipe for confusion and deception. We need to "see" with our spiritual faculties. The mind enables us to understand what we see and then we can communicate that to others.

I've been looking at the Welsh revival again recently. It began with people becoming desperate about the condition of the church and praying. One man prayed that God would raise up a particular kind of man, a worker, not a professional, theologically trained preacher. Evan Roberts was exactly that, a miner but with a heart for God. In two years, at least 100,000 people were saved. The retention rate was 82%. Billy Graham said that he would have been happy with 4%.

The revival spread to other places, including the Azusa Street revival. God can do it again. The question is, does anyone care enough?
I've read that At Azuza Street, they would start their services with PRAYER.. not A prayer...PRAYER. They would simply pray until God moved.

When on a trip with a pastor, he said to me "Wouldn't it be great if Revival started with our trip?". I said "Starting a revival is easy. All we have to do is park somewhere and start praying. Revival is a function of prayer, Not of having a location, printing banners, passing out paphlets and having a sound system." Then I asked if he was ready for the middle and END of the revival. That last part kind of blew his mind, until I explained why revivals end (and it's not because they're all false).

God said His house is a house of PRAYER... not singing, preaching, etc. There's a reason for that, and a 'reason' churches don't do it like they should. Not a real reason they don't, but I don't know what word to use.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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#28
I've read that At Azuza Street, they would start their services with PRAYER.. not A prayer...PRAYER. They would simply pray until God moved.

When on a trip with a pastor, he said to me "Wouldn't it be great if Revival started with our trip?". I said "Starting a revival is easy. All we have to do is park somewhere and start praying. Revival is a function of prayer, Not of having a location, printing banners, passing out paphlets and having a sound system." Then I asked if he was ready for the middle and END of the revival. That last part kind of blew his mind, until I explained why revivals end (and it's not because they're all false).

God said His house is a house of PRAYER... not singing, preaching, etc. There's a reason for that, and a 'reason' churches don't do it like they should. Not a real reason they don't, but I don't know what word to use.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Oops. That was supposed to be a reply to @ResidentAlien 's OP, not @Gideon300 's reply. No trickery intended. I just hit reply at the wrong time, I guess.

Love in Jesus to you both,
Kelby
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#29
.
Truth isn't meant to be learned by means of discussion; it's meant to be
learned by instruction, taught by someone especially enabled by God for that
purpose. (Eph 4:11-14)

1Cor 12:29 . . Are all teachers?

The answer to that is a great big NO.

Some years ago I was invited to a home Bible study. Before considering his
invitation; I asked the man if his group was led by a competent Bible
teacher. He said: No; we don't have a teacher. The group teaches itself. In
other words: we speak as the Spirit leads us to speak.

They say iron sharpeneth iron. But that doesn't work when both irons are
soft; all they end up doing is chafing each other. That's why files are
hardened and tempered. Well; that man's group lacked a file, so to speak;
so I declined.
_
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#30
I've read that At Azuza Street, they would start their services with PRAYER.. not A prayer...PRAYER. They would simply pray until God moved.

When on a trip with a pastor, he said to me "Wouldn't it be great if Revival started with our trip?". I said "Starting a revival is easy. All we have to do is park somewhere and start praying. Revival is a function of prayer, Not of having a location, printing banners, passing out paphlets and having a sound system." Then I asked if he was ready for the middle and END of the revival. That last part kind of blew his mind, until I explained why revivals end (and it's not because they're all false).

God said His house is a house of PRAYER... not singing, preaching, etc. There's a reason for that, and a 'reason' churches don't do it like they should. Not a real reason they don't, but I don't know what word to use.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I welcome revival, but heaven forbid that Azusa would be our model for what revival is supposed to look like.
 
Nov 12, 2021
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#31
I always start my prayer when reading Scripture thanking God for the Revelation knowledge that the Holy Spirit will impart freely to me uninterrupted or hindered by any Satanic or demonic force -

In my opinion ----it is good to read different commentaries and you can ask the Holy Spirit to guide you and give you discernment on what commentary actually represent the best context of the scripture ---

Many of us try to read more into the Scripture than is necessary ------many can't believe that some scripture can be understood in a easy fashion --they have to make the Scripture mysterious and deep and that in my view is not what God intended at all -----there are some difficult passages that are hard to understand for sure but with the Help of the direction of the Holy Spirit you can find the best understanding of what the Context of the Scripture is saying ---and you will know when you have that peace that your answer for you is right ----

For instance ------this scripture says what it says ----no interpretation needed --you take it as literal --as it tells you straight up what you need to do to get the victory of answered prayer ---


1 John 5:14-15 ESV

14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

I say
Another thing is everyone is at a different level of maturity in their Faith and understanding of the Scripture ----a Carnal Christian on milk will not have the level of understanding as a more mature Christian who is is advancing to veggies and then to meat ------so you will have different interpretations in that respect ---The Holy Spirit will only impart understanding that you are able to handle ------

Scripture will always answer Scripture ----we just don't know where to look to find the answer ----the Old Testament is the foreshadowing of the New Testament ----and many times we need to reference the Old Testament to answer Scripture in the New Testament ------

Foe example ---In the Book of Revelation all the imagery a lot of the answers of what they means are found in Daniel and Ezekiel -----


Another thing is -----we need to know the Culture and their customs in Jesus Times ----everything Jesus refers to --the Jewish communities were familiar with ----- and we are not ------so research is needed ---when reading and understanding Scripture and the culture of that time -----

For instance -----from google ---

In the Torah, one is prohibited from wearing shatnez only after it has been carded, woven, and twisted, but the rabbis prohibit it if it has been subjected to any one of these operations. Hence felt made with a mixture of wool compressed together with linen is forbidden.

Jesus speaks on Mixing things here ------the Jews would have been very familiar with what He was saying ---and would have been able to understand it -------but if we did not know the culture at that time was not allowed to mix things ------this would be confusing to us -------

Matthew 9:17 NIV
17 Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”


Revelation 3:15-16 NIV
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.


I say -----So now we can understand that you cannot mix the old Covenant with the New Covenant ---as the Old ruins the New -----and you are strattling a fence having one foot in the Law and one in Grace which makes you a luke warm ---double minded Christian---unstable in all your ways ----and you can't receive anything from God ------it says He will spit you out of His mouth ------better to have both feet planted in the one Covenant you choose to be in --------

I say
so all things things are important to understand when trying to grasp what the real meaning is of the scripture -------and again the Holy spirit meets you where you are in your understanding -----
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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#32
I welcome revival, but heaven forbid that Azusa would be our model for what revival is supposed to look like.
:) They had so much faith in God's ability that there was a young girl who would pray for people's teeth to be regrown in their mouth. And she would do it one by one, watching them regrow.

I get it that people don't like (or aren't comfortable with) power like that. But when you're on the receiving end of that kind of healing , you rejoice and praise God (not the devil) like the lame man who followed Peter and John into the temple. (and persecution will follow)

And you're beginning to touch on the reason those kinds of revivals fail. (You can simply go to Acts 2 to see it start happening) People see stuff happening and begin to associate it with narcotics, or the devil, or the occult, or....etc. And that's not even mentioning when people start trying to minister in the FLESH, instead of faith. That will eventually happen as people start focusing on the outcome (manifestations) instead of the input (PRAYER). Whether in the finances of a country, or the manifestations of a revival... as soon as the withdrawals exceed the inputs... it's about to get ugly.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#33
:) They had so much faith in God's ability that there was a young girl who would pray for people's teeth to be regrown in their mouth. And she would do it one by one, watching them regrow.
How do you know this? Were you there?

I'd prefer a revival where people came to repentance and cried out to God for mercy, not new teeth.
 
Jan 15, 2022
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#34
I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how so many people can read the same scriptures and come away with so many different views. .
Spiritual truth and agreement come through the Holy Spirit:
then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Phil2:2

But how many totally rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth?
 
Nov 12, 2021
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#35
But how many totally rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth?

I would say not many -----maybe this is why -----read all if interested ---just posting this part -----

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Com...y-is-the-subject-of-holy-spirit-neglected.cfm

Summary –
Why Is the Subject of the Holy Spirit Neglected?

Unfortunately, the subject of the Holy Spirit has been neglected by Bible-believing Christians. There are a number of reasons for this. We can make the following observations.

For one thing, other teachings have been perceived to be more important than the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. God the Father and Jesus Christ have been assumed to be more crucial for understanding Christian theology. Therefore, we do not study about the Holy Spirit with the same intensity.

Indeed God the Father and God the Son are often linked together in Scripture without any mention of the Holy Spirit. This is a further reason for the neglect of the study of the Spirit of God.

There has been a general neglect from the pulpit, which, in turn, has caused neglect by the people. Christians also tend to major on the minors spending more time on non-essentials than on this doctrine.

Add to this, there is also the fear of being classed as a fanatic. Since there is often much sensationalism concerning the person and work of the Holy Spirit from some segments of Christianity, others neglect to study about Him for fear of being linked with these people.

In addition, the Holy Spirit works inwardly and invisibly, which also makes Him harder to identify with than the Father figure of God or the historical person of Jesus. His mission is to speak of others rather than Himself.

Finally, there is the fact that believers do not have a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit as we do with God the Father and God the Son. His ministry is to testify of Jesus – never Himself.

Each of these factors has lead to a general neglect of the subject
 

Gardenias

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#36
Revival is a renewing of something that was once alive and producing but is now dying or dead!

If God sends another revival period it will start as a fire among the ember of believers.

He will also send it as he sees fit. Azusa was a revival as in Acts that started with the apostles then spread outward.

Don't presume to tell God how to move!

He had Hosea marry a whore.
Had Isaiah walk naked through the streets for three years.Ect.ect............

Who are we that he seeks council of us!
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#37
Revival is a renewing of something that was once alive and producing but is now dying or dead!

If God sends another revival period it will start as a fire among the ember of believers.

He will also send it as he sees fit. Azusa was a revival as in Acts that started with the apostles then spread outward.

Don't presume to tell God how to move!

He had Hosea marry a whore.
Had Isaiah walk naked through the streets for three years.Ect.ect............

Who are we that he seeks council of us!
I'm not telling God how to move. I'm saying why should we accept a counterfeit? Yes, Azusa was counterfeit revival.
 

Gardenias

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Oct 27, 2020
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#38
How do you know it was counterfeit?
Reading your post you don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost!
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#39
How do you know it was counterfeit?
Reading your post you don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost!
I know. I won't try to convince you. You'll figure it out on your own eventually if you love truth.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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#40
How do you know this? Were you there?

I'd prefer a revival where people came to repentance and cried out to God for mercy, not new teeth.
I don't accurately remember if I'd read it or if it was the testimony of someone who was there, but it rings true for how a child would pray when they have full confidence in God to answer. And it fits with how God answered me when I'd learned to pray with complete confidence that he would give whatever I asked in faith, believing. He was VERY faithful to his end of that bargain.

But I chuckled when I re-read your desire to hear people cry out for mercy. The ones I read about in Jesus' day who were crying out for mercy were asking for (and receiving) healings. Seems the two go together when Jesus is around.

I still like your realization that prayer is the lacking ingredient. Jesus warned Peter on the night he (Jesus) was arrested "if you don't pray, you'll give in to temptations no matter how much your spirit would rather do well" (greatly paraphrased) Instead of praying, Peter fell asleep because his eyes were heavy. And when temptations came, Peter fled and also denied Jesus thrice. Even repentance (turning away from sin) needs prayer to function properly.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby