We will abandon it ALL for the sake of the cross, yet, some then abandon 'the faith.'

GreenNnice · Sep 22, 2012

Abandon the faith of a life in Christ after having accepted Him?

I will not ever do that to you, Lord !!!

Caw.
Caw.
Caw.

Some will do things they don't want to do, lured away by THEIR lusts of desire, abandoning their Master's care, leaving His hand.

$cripture to back this claim is rich in Truth...

From Jesus words in Luke 8, telling the parable of the sower: ” They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. ”

And 1 Timothy 4:1 is wrought with tne reality of some departing the precious,life God's set in place by His plan (Jer. 29:11) for them:

King James Bible ”Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.”

=========_========

Christ peeps, don't abandon the faith of Jesus Christ, in so believing God's put so much FAITH in you, do not let it depart from the bowels of your body, your hope rests in His having cleansed you by His blood innocenntly shed for sinful you and I. Don't let it. Stay with Hope, His is great, DON't abandon His Hope for Satan's illusionary gain that will well to TASTE beautiful for all of a few seconds as the Lord will THEN let you fall in your folly and life choice which will be to go back to your own vomit. Ick!! Now why would you EVER want to go back to what God deserted you from with so much peace of the everafter in the first place. Why?? God gives you so much beauty of presence when you accept His presence, miladies and gents, do not go to the ugly filth that Satan silvery 'plates' the fine silver that underneath is pure worthless steel and by then it's too late you are dead , Satan stealed you away.

There is NOTHING that can seperate you from Christ except one person, you

So c'mon, let'$ not just get happy, let's experiende real joy that comes from a faith that unequivocally, completely, wholly, follows Him

RickyZ · Sep 22, 2012

Indeed, in the end people will abandon Him en masse because they weren't properly taught and prepared for the heat that will be put on them. The Apostacy, or mass turning... everyone knows about the antichrist but no one hears about the apostacy. Which is sad because Paul put them on equal footing. But you're right, it's always our choice. God doesn't turn away from us, we do.

GreenNnice · Sep 22, 2012

RickyZ said:

Apostate?
Indeed !

This going to heaven deal is a suffering and shame gateway to eternal riches, just as Jesus suffered in His life, and, certainly suffered in torture, and, death, we, too, WILL suffer. But God's peace is to THOSE WHO LOVE HIM, and, not just some itty-bitty kind of love, or, love, love, or, love-love. But those who will be saved will ENDURE as Scrioture states , they will fight the good fight of faith, realize their 'wretched man' was CRUCIFIED @t the cross, and, that they (sinful old self) no longer are who lives in themselves, governed and ruled their flesh and lusts of burning, passionate desire, but it is Christ who lives in them.

Their is only one one love that is what THE WORLD needsnow and it's His kind of Love, that is beyond compare and explanation, in it is the peace of the nations and the changer of all things bad to good.
Choose His good while yoy can, for will come a day when Satan becomes more and more powerful through His manifestation as a man called 'the anti-Christ,' his deception will rival.the sickly sweet, powerful, questioning, vibing of Adam and Eve sins !

Do not let yourself become inebriated by the Devil's doings noe, because once drunken the stupor takes on a new state. Let the Lord establish His spiritual things on earth more and more , shunning earthly, His grace is sufficient, soo paCKed with His Love for you. Peace and Love, I pray for you, to stand strong to the call, to NEVER EVER NEVER FALL

1 Samuel 5:6 The LORD's hand was heavy upon the people of Ashdod and its vicinity; he brought devastation upon them and afflicted them with tumors.

1 Kings 3:3 Solomon showed his love for the LORD by walking according to the statutes of his father David, except that he offered sacrifices and burned incense on the high places.

Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 31:23 Love the LORD, all his saints! The LORD preserves the faithful, but the proud he pays back in full.

Psalm 37:38 But all sinners will be destroyed; the future of the wicked will be cut off.

Psalm 91:14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

Psalm 97:10 Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

cfultz3 · Sep 22, 2012

There was one thing which popped into my head while reading your OP. In order for someone to have left something, then they must have been a part of that something in the first place. In your mentioning of 1Tim 4:1, it was said that some would 'depart from the faith'. So, if they leave the faith, then they must have been a part of the group who is of faith. My point is, some say that they who backslide (apostate) were never saved in the first place. But, on the other hand, Scripture says that faith is what saves. And if it is faith which saves, then they were saved but decided to turn back. So, I guess what I am saying is that this argument of not being saved in the first place is voided when looked in the light of 1Tim 4:1.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 22, 2012

cfultz3 said:

you can also look at the epistle John wrote. who also spoke of those who left, and departed. He makes it clear, so there is no debate, that those who left (apostated) were never of us to begin with. For if they had been truly of us (of the faith) they never would have left.

cfultz3 · Sep 22, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Point taken and noted. Indeed we are warned about wolves in sheep's clothing, coming in as spies, destroying with gained knowledge. May I ask about your thoughts of faith's walk: can one willfully abandon it?

eternally-gratefull · Sep 22, 2012

cfultz3 said:

I think John made it clear. NO!, then we should ask this question. Will someone with TRUE faith who has the HS given to them, indwells them, and seals them, ever walk away from faith?

GreenNnice · Sep 22, 2012

Satan's pride led to his FALL. He ABANDONED his given faith by God. Isn't that so amazing, that one could be that big-headed, really to have it all right in front of you from God and talk your mind into thinking you can become bigger than God. Amazing !

God has it all, controls all, and, one day, will in plain view be known to.all as Saviour and Lord, EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord !

His control, NOT any one else's.
” The LORD preserves all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy. ” Psalms 145:20

And this 'amazing' one , who.is no one of God, wants you, too, to burn, burn, burn, forevermore IF only he can light a fire around you of seeming warmth before, when, it's slowly dying out, and, you expect him to put more fuel on the fire, he will SNUFF YOU OUT

Dead and gone, locked up in eternity, with nothing left to look.forward to but pain and suffering and shame to think about forevermore

Christ peeps, get others to abandon the fall, to prodigal back to Jesus again, for the sake of having it all from Him and not all of nothing from the one who will only bring you pride and joy forevermore of 'your fall.'

Answer His call, forevermore, ruling with Him it will only be one thing for all time, which never ends, at all. Weeeee! Wee-wee-weee.....fun, fun, fun, and, Daddy NEVER will take the T-bird away

cfultz3 · Sep 22, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Before this turns into a spectrum debate, I humbly bow out peacefully. I hope no offense was taken EG, as none was meant. God bless.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 22, 2012

cfultz3 said:

No offense taken. I thought you just asked my opinion.

I believe a man of God can backslide (take a step back from growing in Christ) I believe a man of God can become a prodigal son (although he is still a son) but I can not believe a man can claim to have faith, then do a 180, and say Christ is not real, he was just a great prophet. or whatever (no faith) or in other words, become Anti-Christ. and believe he lost salvation. I believe as John said, they never were a part of us (saved) or THEY WOULD HAVE STAYED.

GreenNnice · Sep 22, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Yes. They can leave their 'love,' the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a choice we choose, it is power from Him to do good, to receive spiritual gifts but we, too, can lose that love of His ways, get tired of using our spiritual.gifts and apostate. Why can't one chooose to leave Him? Is He going to stop you? No, but if we wander He will still look for His sheep. Will He force them back into the pasture? No. He will ask them why they left, He will chastise, correct, scourge, rebuke them, even CONVICT them of their guilt because they chose to QUIT LOVING HIM, and, become a part of the world again, but He will not FORCETHEMINTOHISHAND. God is not like that. He says 'Come,' and 'I will give you rest.'

But, the wicked choose not to come and there is, therefore, at their own choosing, no rest for the wicked.

Why would John say this 'remove lampstands,' leave your 'love,' if this reality of departing the faith possibility is not true? All Scripture is good for correction, reproof...” 1 Tim. 3:16

All things are possible with God, even the seemingly impossible choice of falling away from God once the Spirit is inside their temple.

just because 'our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit' does not mean we can't choose sin . God will not live inside us if we choose sin. It is our CHOICE to free will live with the blood of Christ covering us , some decide to leave that covering .

cfultz3 · Sep 22, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Perhaps, I misunderstood your 'NO!". From either case, I am sure you and I both can come up with as many verses as needed to make our points, and in the end, neither spectrum would have changed. With that in mind, and as a friend reminded me, 'Live in peace with all, if at all possible', I do not wish, and I am sure you neither, wish to turn God's word into a specular.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 22, 2012

GreenNnice said:

ahh, but this is not the same as chosing to no longer have faith in Christ. a huge difference. I have been a prodigal son, left for 5 years. at no time in those 5 years did I change my view about who christ was and what he did. in fact it was this and guilt (conviction of the HS) which brought me back.

In other words, they never lost salvation. They never stopped being a child of God. they just lost the wonderous things God wanted to give us on earth, His blessings here on earth, and his help while here on earth. As scripture says, only those who are chastened by god are his children, if they have not recieved chastening they are illegitimate. I was chastened by my father when I was a child. when I left and went my own way and decried his ways, but I never stopped being a son. This is what scripture says about those who are Gods true children.

we can be children of God and have no light. we only are a light when we are walking with God and allow God to work in us, this is what draws others to him (the lampstand) Also note. John was talking about Churches, not individual people. many a church has after generations lost their faith. and turned from the ways of God as impostors came in and destroyed it from the inside out. It has nothing to do, however, with a person losing their salvation.

God said I have eternal life. He said I am sealed with the spirit until the day of redemption and this seal is the guarantee of my inheritance. he said he WILL raise me (never said might) He said I will never die, and I am assured of spending eternity with him, not based on what I did or did not do. But based on his son, His promise, and his assurance. If that can be taken away because of something I did,

1. god is a liar
2. It is not based on Christ or his son, but on me
3. God can not keep his promise.

God said even though we may be faithless, or become faithless, he will remain faithfull, he can not deny himself. To take his gift back for any reason, even if we try to hand it to him (which I still say we who are true children of God would never do, as John said clearly) then God has to deny himself.

God must live inside us BECAUSE OF SIN, If we could be sinless, God would not need to live inside us, Read scripture. God will remain in us until our redemption. It is ONLY then that we will not have sin and no longer need the seal of the spirit. because only then will be righteous of our own merit. So what your saying does not make sense. and is placing us back under law.

GreenNnice · Sep 22, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Scripture is clear here, eg, so, question becomes, who are the ones who were not saved in the first place?
The true Christians, who have an unquenchable Love for the Spirit, are the ones, but who are they even?

Is it you, is it me, I am secure in my salvation and belief of Christ , I assume you are too.

So what becomes of us? Do we let the Lord lead us, indwelt in us, and, hope and pray we will stay up when the chips, inevitably, turn down at points in our,life, at ALL points of suffering and shame in our life.

Good verse, 1 John 2 there, Christbro, so, you and, I are saved. Great. What now ?

Also, God didn't convict you through His Spirit IF you are His, He only chastised, corrected, scourged, rebuked you of your falling away, or, backsliding, as you put it, God disciplines His own ONLY in Love, for God is Love

That's good , you came back. Me too

eternally-gratefull · Sep 22, 2012

GreenNnice said:

Those who never had faith in the first place. their faith was dead (james) or they are now anti-Christ (1 john) Or those who are like the jews and trying to work to earn salvation and not trust in Christ (scripture speaks of them all as not being saved, or never have been saved.)

I think Only God knows this, there are many impostors. and would be futile to try to see who is real and who is not. We can only guess

I am, but only because it is not based on me, I will have failed many times, I was a prodigal son for many years. I have questioned my faith many times, but I never doubted the promise of God. I only doubted because of self, not because of who and what God is.

What no?? I wrote these things so you can KNOW you HAVE eternal life, and continue to believe in his name when you struggle, when you fail,m when you fall backward, when you struggle with sin, when you are weak in faith, In all these, you can KNOW you have been given the gift of God. And hopefully this gratitude helps you move forward, and we can reach to be like paul, knowing our sufferings are a momentary light affliction, and we start to look and act like Christ. Many will make it. Many will not, but we can know wherever we fit in this spectrum, we HAVE eternal life. And look forward to the day we WILL be like Christ.

starfield · Sep 22, 2012

GreenNnice said:

Satan's pride led to his FALL. He ABANDONED his given faith by God. Isn't that so amazing, that one could be that big-headed, really to have it all right in front of you from God and talk your mind into thinking you can become bigger than God. Amazing !

God has it all, controls all, and, one day, will in plain view be known to.all as Saviour and Lord, EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord !

His control, NOT any one else's.
” The LORD preserves all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy. ” Psalms 145:20

And this 'amazing' one , who.is no one of God, wants you, too, to burn, burn, burn, forevermore IF only he can light a fire around you of seeming warmth before, when, it's slowly dying out, and, you expect him to put more fuel on the fire, he will SNUFF YOU OUT

Dead and gone, locked up in eternity, with nothing left to look.forward to but pain and suffering and shame to think about forevermore

Christ peeps, get others to abandon the fall, to prodigal back to Jesus again, for the sake of having it all from Him and not all of nothing from the one who will only bring you pride and joy forevermore of 'your fall.'

Answer His call, forevermore, ruling with Him it will only be one thing for all time, which never ends, at all. Weeeee! Wee-wee-weee.....fun, fun, fun, and, Daddy NEVER will take the T-bird away

Amen!
Satan is bad bad bad. He fell from grace to disgrace and wants others to fall with him. Real faith abides.

The fire of God burn forever; He never puts it out unlike Satan who will give fake peace (fire) for a while then blow it out when you least expect. There is no peace is Satan's camp.

GreenNnice · Sep 22, 2012

We, true Christians, can't lose our faith.

But, how do you know you (or I) is considered a true Christian and not one of those who.was never a Christian in the first place?

And, does it change our thinking if the Holy Spirit does 'seal' our guarantee of 'inheritance,' and, yes, we must have Holy Spirit in us, or, we are dead, just like faith without works makes us (spiritually dead)?

And where are the words 'Holy Spirit seals our redemption' in Scripture ?

eternally-gratefull · Sep 22, 2012

GreenNnice said:

As I said, I can't know. Only God knows. all I can do is teach truth and pray those who accept it really have, and are not one of the impostors.

It should. If the HS is in me, I know I can't lose salvation and will not lose hope when I fail.

Eph 1: 13 - 14:

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

GreenNnice · Sep 22, 2012

Eternally grateful: It should. If the HS is in me, I know I can't lose salvation and will not lose hope when I fail.

Eph 1: 13 - 14:

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Can a seal be broken?

Promise only offers promise.

Redemption only offers redemption.

Being promised something, can't we still break that promise?
The Holy Spirit does not break the promise, we do

But redemption, nope, that is a word of utter, well, redemption

Signed, sealed, delivered

eternally-gratefull · Sep 22, 2012

GreenNnice said:

1. If this seal could be broken, paul would have told us
2. God is the one who seals. Can God break his own seal
3. Are you able to break the seal of God, are you more powerful than God?

is this promised based on Gods word? or is it based on me? and will god break his promise? think of titus, God promised eternal life before time began, and he can not lie

The cross paid the price of redemption in full, there is no other payment we can make.

Not based on us, based on God, is God going to break his promise? if he can, what kind of God is he?

how can we break the promise when the promise was NEVER based on us?

We will abandon it ALL for the sake of the cross, yet, some then abandon 'the faith.'

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