What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?

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Grandpa

Senior Member
#241
Jun 24, 2011
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#241
Duskey said:
Yeah, like calvinists proclaiming the word world in John 3:16 doesn’t actually mean world. Next thing you’ll say is when Jesus gave sight to the blind it wasn’t literal eyesight but merely philosophical understanding.
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It does mean world.

It just doesn't mean what freewillers want it to mean.
 
Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#242
Jul 6, 2020
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#242
EleventhHour said:
I think we need to turn for scripture for this... I think we can see God gives man the responsibility to obey and believe and this in no way weakens the sovereignty of God.
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No one can choose without being given a choice. (The sovereignty of God)
Once given a choice everyone chooses. (The free will of man)

Even a child can understand.
Mom puts some apples on the table and says go choose what kind of fruit you want.
The kid knows their choice is apples or apples
Until Mom puts peaches on the table then their free will comes into play.

Our choice was slavery to sin or slavery to sin
Until God put slavery to righteousness on the table
 
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soggykitten

Well-known member
#243
Jul 3, 2020
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#243
eternally-gratefull said:
yes it is what God said

the tax collector got on he knees and cried out

the pharisee came to God and Thanked god he was not like the tax collector. And thought to himself how great he was and how God must love him.
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Even when the verse was posted you misrepresent what was written about the tax collector.

Is that your path through Exegesis or is this an exception?
 
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soggykitten

Well-known member
#244
Jul 3, 2020
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#244
eternally-gratefull said:
Romans 1 says otherwise. I would stick with the word
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But you don't. You input your own preferred wording, as in the parable of the tax collector, and even when the actual scripture is posted to your attention.

What's up with that? And how can you advise others to "stick with the word" when you do not?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#249
Jul 3, 2015
59,907
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#249
Grandpa said:
Freewillers want it to mean that they can elect themselves to Salvation.
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Or, put another way (not that I agree with "free will," preferring the term "self will" instead), perhaps they believe they have the capacity to co-operate with God's plan of redemption whie they are yet His enemy and hostile towards Him, with no help from God Himself :unsure:
 
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lenna

Guest
#250
#250
posthuman said:
in this thread in particular, maybe an algebraic approach would be an useful tool so that people wouldn't be just shouting opinions they can't substantiate. mathematics is a language of substantiated statement; if you can't justify it fully, you don't say it. that is very different from the usual BDF methodology ;)
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actually, while I understand what you are saying, I don't think we can quantify God's grace in a mathamatical formula because it does not 'add up'

the answer to our rebellion and sin would always be we need to be punished

God, gives an answer that does not make sense out of the sin equation.

the sum of rebellion and sin equals death.

God offers life instead
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#251
#251
Lion222 said:
Im not ignoring anything I am trying to open hour eyes to the context.
If I speak about the works of the law all through my letter to you and in on place I just say works
Should you not understand that I mean works of the law?

James 2:24
As you can see, a man is justified by his works and not by faith alone.

Clearly and plainly a man is justified by his works.

To reject this is to reject the very word of God.
Now Paul appears to be saying the exact opposite.
So you must ask yourself are Paul and James speaking of different kinds of works?
One kind that justifies and one kind that does not justify?
Are you to take one verse above another, or use one to negate the other?
No.
You are to understand the context and if needed move yourself to a new perspective to find the unity in the word of God that you lack.
Paul is constantly speaking about the works of the law.
James is speaking about the works of faith.

One of these works is not like the other.
One of these works just does not belong.
Sing it with me.
One of these works is not like the other
One of these works just does not belong.

Can you remember your sesame street days?

Why this is such an issue, Because people love the lie, because their deeds are evil.
If one is justified by the works faith, the works of believing then what become of all those who faith is worthless and dead?
They will hear depart from my you who practice lawlessness.
But what God is going to deny ever knowing those who don't keep the law?
How is that when the works of the law made no one righteous?
Well that is just it, the works of Faith do make one righteous and lawful and is the only way to believe and know God.
The one who practices sin has neither seen or known God.

What the law could not do (make you lawful because the outcome of your works depended on you)
God did (because the outcome of your works in faith depend on God in Christ)
As Paul says those who do not have the written law keep the law because they have the law written on their hearts, by God himself.
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Yet YOU are destroying context

you can not open my eyes if you cause the word to contradict

abraham was justified by his works. To men, but not to God,

the people james spoke to were hearers only not doers. They had no faith, that is what dead faith means, they only had mere belief.

no one, i mean no one is saved just because they believe even demons believe and tremble.

we are saved by faith. Just like abraham was in Gen 15, out of that salvation comes works, just like abraham produced, and in doing so, justified his faith was real

titus 3: 5 alone a passage you have yet to respond to, destroys your works based theology, and I have posted others,, you want to stick with James. That will not help you, because you do not understand the context of James words
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#252
#252
soggykitten said:
Even when the verse was posted you misrepresent what was written about the tax collector.

Is that your path through Exegesis or is this an exception?
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Do tell, how did I misrepresent it?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#253
#253
soggykitten said:
But you don't. You input your own preferred wording, as in the parable of the tax collector, and even when the actual scripture is posted to your attention.

What's up with that? And how can you advise others to "stick with the word" when you do not?
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What have you done here?

i started the word, that all Men know god, and know they are judged by him thus they have no excuse

and you keep insisting I got the parable wrong, yet It is clear

the tax collector went home justified

the pharisee did not

which one are you?
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#254
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#254
Lion222 said:
You mean like when the word of God says
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Yep, exactly like that.

Who do you think it was that CAUSED the person to desire the water of Life?

Here, I'll show you...

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Its the Father. Drawing the person to Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#256
#256
Lion222 said:
You mean like when the word of God says
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What does this have to do with electing yourself? did you elect yourself before time began?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#257
#257
Magenta said:
Or, put another way (not that I agree with "free will," preferring the term "self will" instead), perhaps they believe they have the capacity to co-operate with God's plan of redemption whie they are yet His enemy and hostile towards Him, with no help from God Himself :unsure:
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Again, name someone who thinks this

it seems like people want to put words in others mouths

me believing in the one who was sent (John 3:16)

or earring the food which endures to eternal life (John 6) is not me cooperating or electing myself
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#258
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#258
Magenta said:
Or, put another way (not that I agree with "free will," preferring the term "self will" instead), perhaps they believe they have the capacity to co-operate with God's plan of redemption whie they are yet His enemy and hostile towards Him, with no help from God Himself :unsure:
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I'll start using the term self will instead of freewill.

It does seem a little more fitting.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#259
#259
Grandpa said:
Yep, exactly like that.

Who do you think it was that CAUSED the person to desire the water of Life?

Here, I'll show you...

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Its the Father. Drawing the person to Christ.
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Yep. It god has drawn many. I have seen it, and many have said no in the end

we still must make a decision
 
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