What About Saved by Grace?

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Acts2

New member
Aug 11, 2020
9
5
3
#1
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
156
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#2
You're very first scripture...
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Believe in him "....through faith" means having trusting in Jesus ways, thus obeying him. BUT our faith may waiver. Our trust may waiver. That's a deep idea.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
31,651
9,833
113
#3
Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost
None of the 29 versions on Biblehub have the word "water" as you suggest.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,117
543
113
#4
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
They asked " what shall we do " not " what shall we do to be saved " .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,117
543
113
#5
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
The key to saved by Grace is....as obvious as it sounds
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
1,443
803
113
#6
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
But the very first verse you share to make your point regarding Salvation has no mention of obedience. Not even in the entire chapter of Ephesians 2.

1Also you -- being dead in the trespasses and the sins,
2 in which once ye did walk according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath -- as also the others,
4 and God, being rich in kindness, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together with the Christ, (by grace ye are having been saved,)
6 and did raise [us] up together, and did seat [us] together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
7 that He might show, in the ages that are coming, the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus,
8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,
9 not of works, that no one may boast;
10 for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.
11 Wherefore, remember, that ye [were] once the nations in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that called Circumcision in the flesh made by hands,
12 that ye were at that time apart from Christ, having been alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope, and without God, in the world;
13 and now, in Christ Jesus, ye being once afar off became nigh in the blood of the Christ,
14 for he is our peace, who did make both one, and the middle wall of the enclosure did break down,
15 the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace,
16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity in it,
17 and having come, he did proclaim good news -- peace to you -- the far-off and the nigh,
18 because through him we have the access -- we both -- in one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Then, therefore, ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God,
20 being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief corner-[stone],
21 in whom all the building fitly framed together doth increase to an holy sanctuary in the Lord,
22 in whom also ye are builded together, for a habitation of God in the Spirit.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#7
But the very first verse you share to make your point regarding Salvation has no mention of obedience. Not even in the entire chapter of Ephesians 2.
But It mention through faith.
What is faith mean? Entrust, or believe what ever Jesus teach.

Or believe what bible teach

Do you believe or trust or have faith this verse
1 cor 6

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Read full chapter

Do you believe If you do one of the sin oN the list above you not inherit the kingdom of God?
Or you believe Paul Lie to you, and you believe murder or what ever in that list Will inherit the Kingdom of God?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,117
543
113
#8
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED
Notice 'but he that believeth not shall be damned ' it does not say 'But he that not is baptised shall be damned '
Acts 2.38 is to ISRAEL and they continued with John the baptist messgae had to for all the reasons Peter specifically gives to this Jewish audience on the day of pentacost have to DO something . Gentiles in 2020 do not have to DO what THOSE JEWS had to DO . ( " WHAT MUST WE DO " ) Notice Acts 16.30 its" WHAT MUST I DO ...... TO BE SAVED "
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,406
639
113
#9
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
Obedience is something that man has to do in order to receive salvation. Salvation according to Greek means, "a deliverance".

There is a deliverance that the regenerated person receives here in this world by obeying God's commandments. This is not eternal deliverance, because the regenerated man already an eternal inheritance. This is salvation (deliverance), by our good works.

Our eternal deliverance (salvation) is by God's sovereign grace, and not by our works.


The men in Acts, that were "pricked" in their hearts were indicating that they had already had their stony hearts changed, in regeneration, to the soft heart of flesh with a conscience that can be 'Pricked". This is the opposite of the unregenerate men when they heard Stevens same sermon as Peters, these men were "cur to the heart" and stoned Steven to death.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,117
543
113
#10
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
born of water ( mothers waters ) ' that which is flesh is flesh .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,117
543
113
#11
Obedience is something that man has to do in order to receive salvation. Salvation according to Greek means, "a deliverance".

There is a deliverance that the regenerated person receives here in this world by obeying God's commandments. This is not eternal deliverance, because the regenerated man already an eternal inheritance. This is salvation (deliverance), by our good works.

Our eternal deliverance (salvation) is by God's sovereign grace, and not by our works.


The men in Acts, that were "pricked" in their hearts were indicating that they had already had their stony hearts changed, in regeneration, to the soft heart of flesh with a conscience that can be 'Pricked". This is the opposite of the unregenerate men when they heard Stevens same sermon as Peters, these men were "cur to the heart" and stoned Steven to death.
/// The men in Acts, that were "pricked" in their hearts were indicating that they had already had their stony hearts changed,/// this is Eisegesis at its finest here . It just says they were pricked in their hearts . They were responding the same way any other person responds to things that cause a response.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,117
543
113
#12
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
29 conversion accounts in Acts and you picked that one ? Acts is not a book to base doctrine on .
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
156
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#13
Obedience is something that man has to do in order to receive salvation.
Obedience is required, but that is not what "earns" you salvation. Faith in Jesus is what saves you, in that you believe in his teachings to the point of obedience, to the best of you ability, to do what you believe is right, though you may fall short sometimes.
 

Pilgrimshope

Active member
Sep 2, 2020
241
80
28
#14
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.


If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
I would agree baptism is something we should do when we here about what it means for us , I can’t imagine anyone arguing that it’s not necessary .

it’s an act of faith to hear and believe , not really faith to hear and then say “ that’s not necessary . I don’t think any of us here are an authority or anything but I think a persons faith is given and measured by God

it certainly doesn’t say “ if you don’t get baptized you can’t be saved “

although I do not see any reason anyone wouldn’t take that word from the lord in faith and act upon it knowing romans chapter 6-7 regarding baptism .

“ whoever believes the gospel and is baptized will be saved “ that’s what Jesus said , so faith would believe and do that . But then faith hears the gospel and believes as well baptism the act doesn’t save but it’s not faith to reject and argue it’s not necessary
 

Acts2

New member
Aug 11, 2020
9
5
3
#17
Paul emphasized justification by faith more than any other writer, yet he strongly insisted that saving faith is inseparably bound up with obedience. He taught that the mystery of God’s redemptive plan, the church, has been “made known to all nations for the obedience of faith” (Romans 16:26).

Christ worked through Paul to “make the Gentiles obedient” (Romans 15:18). Similarly, Luke recorded that a great number of priests were “obedient to the faith” (Acts 6:7). Faith and obedience are so closely linked that a lack of obedience to God is proof of a lack of faith: “But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?” (Romans 10:16).

Other passages reiterate the essential link between obedience and salvation. Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
156
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#18
So we can be saved by grace as long as we attain to it by means of faith to the point of obedience. Tough we can attain such grace, we can also fall from grace. Perhaps what we can do to attain such grace is to keep our love for God? I'm sure God is not so unjust that he would forget the love you show him.

Hebrews 6:10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
156
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#20
Since the verse you quoted says "through faith" you have substituted obedience for faith. Thus perverting the Gospel.
No, he didn't substitute, he connected. He didn't pervert, he explained.

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. "