What About Saved by Grace?

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soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#61
It is a gift of the Lord that we are saved, and that gift is not given as a payment of wages for obedience but as a free gift.

But God chooses those that he gives this gift to, and scripture tells us what He bases that choice on. God chooses those who love and obey him. Your statement "(not) necessary to obey in order to remain saved" is true in the sense that we will not be chosen if we choose to be sinners and disobedient, as we are told by the Lord, but it is our love and wish to follow him that his choice is based on.

Rev. 22:12 Behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work.
Believe as you wish. :) I don't think we can really argue someones own personal theology. Blessings.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#63
What sins have you committed today? Are you still going to heaven?
I am asking what the Bible teach, not about me, I am a sinner and I wish god cancel this verse

1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#64
Believe as you wish. :) I don't think we can really argue someones own personal theology. Blessings.
May the Lord protect me!!! I have no right to speak for the Lord, if anything I say is of my own mind and not of the Lord's, then I am sinning. Do you find anything I say that is not backed up with scripture?
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#65
If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
If the body is dead because of sin (Romans 8:10)...how do we obey?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#66
If the body is dead because of sin (Romans 8:10)...how do we obey?
You are mistaken about the message given in Romans 8:10 by leaving out the words "subject to",

Romans 8:10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#67
You are trying to relate faith and works, and they are separate.
Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit.

Salvation is a gift of the Lord and it is the Lord who decides on who to give that gift to. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
The Lord does not merely randomly or fatalistically determine who receives the gift of eternal life and the gift is not given based on works. Ephesians 2:8 (AMPC) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

When a gift is given it is not as a payment for something.
Of course it isn't. Otherwise, it would not be a gift.

Works enters in because the Lord tells us who He decides to give this gift to, and that is to ones who love and obey Him. Jesus and God the Father act as one and Christ said: “If you love me, you will obey my commandments.
You are putting the cart before the horse. We don't love and obey His commandments in order to receive the gift, but because we have received the gift.

Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 
May 19, 2020
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#68
It is a gift of the Lord that we are saved, and that gift is not given as a payment of wages for obedience but as a free gift.

But God chooses those that he gives this gift to, and scripture tells us what He bases that choice on. God chooses those who love and obey him. Your statement "(not) necessary to obey in order to remain saved" is true in the sense that we will not be chosen if we choose to be sinners and disobedient, as we are told by the Lord, but it is our love and wish to follow him that his choice is based on.

Rev. 22:12 Behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work.


What I get from this...my own thoughts,which don’t count,I know.

When God chose us,he knew before we were born,that we would be faithful servants who would love and be obedient to him.

We are made alive in Christ....he helps us to become obedient...etc,etc,we have started a personal relationship with our Father In Heaven....as he dwell in us.

Slowly changing us.....I must say I have kicked against some things....but in his Love which is never forced...he shows us areas where we need to change...
He knows exactly how to help change his children,to be more like Jesus Christ.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#69
I am asking what the Bible teach, not about me, I am a sinner and I wish god cancel this verse

1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
This is why i trust in the KJV not in the scriptures you quote..

1 Corinthians 6: KJV
9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, {10} Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. {11} And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

When people are saved and believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for the forgiveness of their sins they are washed and sanctified and deemed Rightious through faith... Paul was talking about the unsaved and why they will not enter the kingdom of heaven.. He was NOT talking about the Saints..

Romans 3: KJV
21 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; {22} Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: {23} For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#70
You are mistaken about the message given in Romans 8:10 by leaving out the words "subject to",

Romans 8:10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life.
No mistake.

Romans 8:10
King James Version

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of Righteousness.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#71
No mistake.

Romans 8:10
King James Version

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of Righteousness.
The KJV was a miraculous, wonderful translation but it was translated at a time when Christianity was in the darkness of deep antisemitism and before many scripture proofs were found. It reflects the thoughts of the time it was written. The translators lived in the time of Shakespeare. It is beautiful, but needs to be compared with many other translations for accuracy.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,423
877
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#72
Paul was talking about the unsaved and why they will not enter the kingdom of heaven.. He was NOT talking about the Saints..
Paul not talking about saint.
So your definition of saint is murder, adulterer, theft envy but believe that Jesus is God.

My definition of saint is a person that obey the Lord, not murder etc and if they do, they are repent
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
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#73
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The key to "saved by grace" is obedience.

God gave Noah specific instructions on how to build the ark.

God gave Moses specific instructions on how to build the Tabernacle.

And neither one was given any discretion or authority to by-pass those instructions. If Noah had deviated, the ark would have sunk. If Moses had deviated, the Glory and Presence of God would have never dwelled between the Cherubims.


Here are a few examples of obedience in response to very specific instructions...

John 9:11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Luke 17:12-14 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Luke 5:4-6 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net. And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

2 Kings 5:9 So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. [10] And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
[11] But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
[12] Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
[14] Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Question: Was their obedience a "work"? Would they have received the miracle had they not "obeyed"? Jesus once told Peter to go catch a fish, and take the money from its mouth to pay tribute. He could have just spoke the word, and would have been as easy as breaking bread for the multitudes. However, that wouldn't have anything to do with us exercising our Faith, or being Obedient. Remember Naaman in the above scripture, at first he was wroth and went his way. He did not receive his miracle until after he obeyed his instruction according to the saying of the man of God.


At the birth of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two, the apostles were all gathered together and were asked a very important question regarding how to be saved...

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

(verse 38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to:

1. Repent
2. Water baptism
3. Receive Holy Ghost

Remember, Jesus said in John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of born or water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What happened to baptism in John 3:15? "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We know God didn't remove baptism, so what happened?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, there's the baptism.

If we are to be saved the New Testament way, we need to follow Peter's instructions and obey Acts 2:38 - which is not a work, it is Obedience.
Grace: the divine influence upon the heart and its reflection in the life.

By God's divine influence upon your heart are you saved by believing and this belief is a gift that no man may boast.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#74
The KJV was a miraculous, wonderful translation but it was translated at a time when Christianity was in the darkness of deep antisemitism and before many scripture proofs were found. It reflects the thoughts of the time it was written. The translators lived in the time of Shakespeare. It is beautiful, but needs to be compared with many other translations for accuracy.
The only translation that can be concluded as the Word of God is a word-for-word translation, such as the King James. There are one or two other word-for-word translations; however, with these, I am not familiar.

Asking the same question:
If the body is dead because of sin (Romans 8:10)...how do we obey?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
3,090
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#75
The only translation that can be concluded as the Word of God is a word-for-word translation, such as the King James. There are one or two other word-for-word translations; however, with these, I am not familiar.

Asking the same question:
If the body is dead because of sin (Romans 8:10)...how do we obey?
Scripture tells us there are two kinds of obedience, there is the physical obedience that is doing what the rules say. It is called legalistic obedience by the church. With the new covenant, that obedience looks on the surface like the same thing but it is much deeper, it is obedience through the heart. Love is always involved with this kind of obedience.

Christ explained it well in the Sermon on the Mount when he told us about some of the commandments by telling us "you have been told" and then "but I tell you". It was giving the same commandments, but getting to the core of their meaning.

When scripture speaks of the body being dead, it is speaking of the state of our body without the saving grace of the Lord. Taking this to a deeper meaning, our bodies only contain our soul that lives on through Christ.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#76
Scripture tells us there are two kinds of obedience, there is the physical obedience that is doing what the rules say. It is called legalistic obedience by the church. With the new covenant, that obedience looks on the surface like the same thing but it is much deeper, it is obedience through the heart. Love is always involved with this kind of obedience.

Christ explained it well in the Sermon on the Mount when he told us about some of the commandments by telling us "you have been told" and then "but I tell you". It was giving the same commandments, but getting to the core of their meaning.

When scripture speaks of the body being dead, it is speaking of the state of our body without the saving grace of the Lord. Taking this to a deeper meaning, our bodies only contain our soul that lives on through Christ.
How do we obey and do what the scriptures ask of us to do?

The answer will always be by the Grace we receive through our Trust and Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ AND THE FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY CROSS WHERE THE VICTORY WAS WON, i.e., THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

Because the body is dead to sin, the Holy Spirit keeps all commandments and Laws for the Believer.

Because we are in Christ, sin cannot attach itself to a Believer. Also, if Christ is a law keeper, the Believer is a law keeper because we are in Christ.

The Believer is in Christ (Rom. 6:3-5). Therefore, we live by our Lord and Saviour Faith, His Obedience, His Love, His Works, and His Life.

It is not the Believer Faith that we live by.
It is not the Believer Obedience we live by.
It is not the Believer Love we live by.
It is not the Believer Works we live by.
It is not the Believer Life that we live by.


And how do we do this? I repeat, by the Grace, we receive through our Trust and Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ AND THE FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY CROSS WHERE THE VICTORY WAS WON, i.e., THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

If you break this LAW - “The Law of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) of Life (Jesus Christ Life) in Christ Jesus (what Christ did at the Cross), Grace Stops immediately. Galatians 2:18, 21

There is no other way can we receive Grace that gives us the help of the Holy Spirit. Rom. 8:2, 2 Cor. 4:11, John 15:5
 
Aug 4, 2020
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#77
What sins have you committed today? Are you still going to heaven?
remember you said this : //because by his grace we are saved. He sent his only begotten son Jesus, who was God in flesh, to take the sins of the whole world upon himself on the cross. To be the propitiation for the sins of all people in all the world for eternity. ///
??
 
Aug 4, 2020
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#78
How do we obey and do what the scriptures ask of us to do?

The answer will always be by the Grace we receive through our Trust and Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ AND THE FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY CROSS WHERE THE VICTORY WAS WON, i.e., THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

Because the body is dead to sin, the Holy Spirit keeps all commandments and Laws for the Believer.

Because we are in Christ, sin cannot attach itself to a Believer. Also, if Christ is a law keeper, the Believer is a law keeper because we are in Christ.

The Believer is in Christ (Rom. 6:3-5). Therefore, we live by our Lord and Saviour Faith, His Obedience, His Love, His Works, and His Life.

It is not the Believer Faith that we live by.
It is not the Believer Obedience we live by.
It is not the Believer Love we live by.
It is not the Believer Works we live by.
It is not the Believer Life that we live by.


And how do we do this? I repeat, by the Grace, we receive through our Trust and Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ AND THE FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY CROSS WHERE THE VICTORY WAS WON, i.e., THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

If you break this LAW - “The Law of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) of Life (Jesus Christ Life) in Christ Jesus (what Christ did at the Cross), Grace Stops immediately. Galatians 2:18, 21

There is no other way can we receive Grace that gives us the help of the Holy Spirit. Rom. 8:2, 2 Cor. 4:11, John 15:5
Again you are in disobedience. We HAVE obeyed, if we believed the gospel . The whole world is in disobedience to the Gospel ,until they believe by Faith . That s the 'message of the cross '. Not this virtue signalling ,Lordship ,subtle works salvation that many are peddling today sadly . Which is not saving anyone ,but pushing people away from the truth and keeping believers in bondage .
 
Jul 24, 2016
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#79
Paul not talking about saint.
So your definition of saint is murder, adulterer, theft envy but believe that Jesus is God.

My definition of saint is a person that obey the Lord, not murder etc and if they do, they are repent
Then your definition of a Saint is wrong..

NO one ceases to sin.. No not one.. And preaching sinlessness in the flesh is a lie and a stumbling stone in the way of peoples faith in the LORD..

If a person obeyed the LORD as you define it then they would never kill anyone.. Once they kill someone they have disobeyed the LORD according to you and are not a saved Saint..
 
Aug 4, 2020
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#80
Then your definition of a Saint is wrong..

NO one ceases to sin.. No not one.. And preaching sinlessness in the flesh is a lie and a stumbling stone in the way of peoples faith in the LORD..

If a person obeyed the LORD as you define it then they would never kill anyone.. Once they kill someone they have disobeyed the LORD according to you and are not a saved Saint..
Who is this in response to ?