What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#121
Nov 22, 2015
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#121
Crazy religious ideas come when we do not look at scripture through the "lens" of the finished work of Jesus.. Every scripture needs to be interpreted through the cross first and then through the finished work of Jesus after His resurrection.

Jesus is perfect theology, He is the exact representation of the nature and character of the Father.
 
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#122
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
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#122
wow! I urge you to get you a bible and read it. (seriously)

here is the replacement of Judas
Acts 1:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Jesus said Judas was LOST in book of John
John 17:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

if Judas was not saved how could he have "fallen" (acts 1)
if Judas wasn't saved there is no reason to believe the any of the others were

Jesus also called peter a devil (Matthew 16:23) was peter saved?
 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#123
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#123
here is the replacement of Judas
Acts 1:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Jesus said Judas was LOST in book of John
John 17:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

if Judas was not saved how could he have "fallen" (acts 1)
if Judas wasn't saved there is no reason to believe the any of the others were
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#124
#124
Goodnewsman said:
you asked me to "repent before it's too late"

to late for what? I went to the altar along time ago and was gloriously saved. are you confused sir?
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You did? WHy do you not trust God to keep you completely then? Why do you doubt?

on one hand your telling me that when I got saved I cant leave my salvation, on the other hand your urging me to repent quickly before it's TOO LATE. which is it? that's what I meant by "heaven bound with the hammer down"
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Now your being deceitful

I am telling you to repent, because I doubt you really repented on that altar. You just said a prayer with no faith whatsoever that God could save you completely. If you did that, we would not even be having this discussion. You would agree. there is no change you can ever be lost. Because you could never save yourself to begin with.

You see, If you can never earn it to begin with you can never un-earn it after you got it.

 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#125
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
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#125
Jesus gave Judas the power to lay hands on the sick and see them recover.........but he wasn't saved?

Judas travelled farther than any other disciple to be a disciple.......but he wasn't saved?

Judas cast out devils (see matthew 10:1)........but he wasn't saved?

mark 3:23 says satan can cast out satan........if Judas wasn't saved, how did he cast out devils?

wow! who am I to believe? I think i'll stick with Jesus on this this one;)
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#126
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#126
Acts 1:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

"Fallen" is not in the text....here is the meaning of the greek word used here...

Turn aside, transgress, break.


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Pi-Rho.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#127
#127
Goodnewsman said:
Jesus gave Judas the power to lay hands on the sick and see them recover.........but he wasn't saved?

Judas travelled farther than any other disciple to be a disciple.......but he wasn't saved?

Judas cast out devils (see matthew 10:1)........but he wasn't saved?

mark 3:23 says satan can cast out satan........if Judas wasn't saved, how did he cast out devils?

wow! who am I to believe? I think i'll stick with Jesus on this this one;)
Click to expand...
What exactly do you think it is to be "saved"?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#128
#128
Goodnewsman said:
wow! I urge you to get you a bible and read it. (seriously)

here is the replacement of Judas
Acts 1:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Jesus said Judas was LOST in book of John
John 17:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

if Judas was not saved how could he have "fallen" (acts 1)
if Judas wasn't saved there is no reason to believe the any of the others were

Jesus also called peter a devil (Matthew 16:23) was peter saved?
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Peter was a thief from the begining.

is a man who claims to be saved, but continues to sin saved or not?

Jesus told Peter who was speaking for the devil to get behind him, He was not calling peter satan.

Judas never believed, he was in it for the money and the magic shows.

John 6: [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#129
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#129
In order to be "saved" as in a Christian is saved now....Jesus had to die for our sins first....then be resurrected....we are new creations in Christ now.....Behold...new things have come 2 Cor 5:17..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#131
#131
only two men are called sons of perdition in scripture. The final world leader or anti Christ, And Judas Iscariot. Was the final world leader who will desecrate the temple and declare himself to be God saved too??
 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#132
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
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#132
no sir, i'm saying that as a 19 year old I went to the altar and wept my way through to salvation. at that time I had no idea about the doctrine we are discussing right now. I honestly repented of my sin. afterwards as I studied the scriptures I came to understand as I do now.

now your telling me that you doubted I ever was saved?

now that I think about it, I guess that's how you guys rationalize all this out. if someone goes out into the world and "backslides" then you can say "well they never got saved to begin with"

I've heard Baptist pastors preach and say "we had 5 deacons get saved during revival"!!!!!! ??????? what! i guess they never was saved to begin with.

but then it gets scary because we all have the ability to "fall". so is any of us saved?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#133
#133
Goodnewsman said:
no sir, i'm saying that as a 19 year old I went to the altar and wept my way through to salvation. at that time I had no idea about the doctrine we are discussing right now. I honestly repented of my sin. afterwards as I studied the scriptures I came to understand as I do now.

now your telling me that you doubted I ever was saved?

now that I think about it, I guess that's how you guys rationalize all this out. if someone goes out into the world and "backslides" then you can say "well they never got saved to begin with"
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See you do not know me at all. I backslid for 5 years. Yet I never questioned my salvation, It is people like you who would say I was never saved or "lost it"

I do not rationalise anything, I listen to what a man says he believes in, and I judge him by that, nothing else. Ones actions does not prove ones salvation.

I've heard Baptist pastors preach and say "we had 5 deacons get saved during revival"!!!!!! ??????? what! i guess they never was saved to begin with.

but then it gets scary because we all have the ability to "fall". so is any of us saved?
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We do? Thats not what God says, He said he would never let go of us, Never let us fall.. So again, Who are you trusting? God or yourself. Everything yuo say screams self. I see no trust in God in what you say. So how else should I judge you?

if You trusted in God, you would realize when you fall. God lifts you back up, Even as his child, you do not have the power to lift yourself up.
 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#134
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#134
wow! i don't know if i should respond or urge you to "read" my post you just responded to. lol

acts 1 said Judas fell and had to be replaced!
john 17 Jesus said he was lost!

i doubt seriously Jesus giving Judas the power of the Holy Ghost to cast out devils if he was in it for the money and magic shows..........absolutely make no since.....and it contradicts scripture

Judas cast out devils (see matthew 10:1)........but he wasn't saved?

mark 3:23 says satan can cast out satan........if Judas wasn't saved, how did he cast out devils?

wow! who am I to believe? I think i'll stick with Jesus on this this one;)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#135
#135
Goodnewsman said:
wow! i don't know if i should respond or urge you to "read" my post you just responded to. lol

acts 1 said Judas fell and had to be replaced!
john 17 Jesus said he was lost!

i doubt seriously Jesus giving Judas the power of the Holy Ghost to cast out devils if he was in it for the money and magic shows..........absolutely make no since.....and it contradicts scripture

Judas cast out devils (see matthew 10:1)........but he wasn't saved?

mark 3:23 says satan can cast out satan........if Judas wasn't saved, how did he cast out devils?

wow! who am I to believe? I think i'll stick with Jesus on this this one;)
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ok james, Ignore John 6. And make believe you are listening to jesus. Thats all your doing anyway.

Go ahead and condemn all us sinners while your excuse your own sin..
 
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#136
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#136
2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

if we die in a backslide condition we will go to hell for eternity.

honesty, i hope you guys are right on this, i really do.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#138
#138
Goodnewsman said:
2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

if we die in a backslide condition we will go to hell for eternity.

honesty, i hope you guys are right on this, i really do.
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How far do we have to slide back? What's the line there that once crossed means one has officially "backslid"? Cause it seems it would be important to know.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#139
#139
Goodnewsman said:
2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

if we die in a backslide condition we will go to hell for eternity.

honesty, i hope you guys are right on this, i really do.
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There are alot of impostors in our churches. People who claim to have faith in Christ, But have no faith whatsoever.

Judas resembled these people. He had seen all of Gods miracles. Witnessed many things, yet when push came to shove, He did not need a savior. like most Jews, he wanted a king who would free them from roman tyrany,

If your a child of God. Security in God is your only hope. if you fear falling away, your faith is not in God, your faith is in how well you can continue walking, and not fall back.. You sound religious, may even act religious, But your religion is futile. When you get to heaven can proudly show God all these great works you did (like I am sure Judas will) and how you have been so blessed to work for God and hold your hand out teo recieve your reward (eternal life) only to get the shock of a lifetime that Jesus never knew you, not even for a microsecond. Your salvation was all a sham, because you did not trrust him to save you complete. and give you his security.


As peter said, it will be better for you not to have known the way, then to have escaped the world and have gained nothing. Because you may have found religion, which makes this world alot easier to deal with. But you did not find Christ.
 
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#140
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#140
I'm not here to draw lines and start saying "your saved" and "your lost"....not my job

but when we as Christians willfully sin and turn our back on God and continue to reject the conviction of the Holy Ghost we can harden our hearts and stiffen our necks and be "cut off"......i'm certainly not God, his mercy is beyond my comprehension
Proverbs 29:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
 
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