What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

[Runningman]

I have already posted Revelation 14:9-11. And proven beyond doubt that it concatenates perfectly with all the other Scriptures about eternal torment and everything else that Jesus had to say about it.

Denial of clear-cut Scripture and spreading heresies is a sin.

You're projecting eternal torment into the scriptures where it isn't explicitly stated. That's the difference between and interpretation and scripture. Your interpretation is that it says "eternal torment" but the actual verses say no such thing.

Now, by interpreting Revelation 14:9-11 to mean eternal torment did you add to God's word? That's between you and God now. You might want to check yourself.

 

[Runningman]

You are taking one description of a part of the text and making or trying to formulate a doctrine.

FYI Destroy both soul and body in hell that is done forever.

You failed to read the full context of John chapter three too. verse 16 is not the only part of the context. You must read above 3:16 and below it what does Jesus say?

18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Condemned means judged not eternal torment. Jesus already established those those who are condemned will perish, not live forever.

Jesus also says in chapter 5:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.



25Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself(eternal life ), so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,(salvation) 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Look at verse 24 again:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Can you see that Jesus taught that those who do not believe in Him are spiritually dead, i.e. will not live forever? That means they will not be conscious or be tormented.

 

[Laura798]

Your vain, humanistic philosophy doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Annihilationism is an unbiblical heresy. This isn't even a debate. The Scripture makes it abundantly clear that BOTH unredeemed mortal men AND unredeemable fallen angelic beings ARE CAST INTO THE SAME PLACE....Ghenna fire.
ETERNAL FIRE = ETERNAL PUNISHMENT = ETERNAL TORMENT

Matt 25:41, 46
Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed (MORTAL MEN), into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
And they (SAME MORTAL MEN) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Jude 1:6-7
And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.

Mark 9:43-48
And if your hand should cause you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you (MORTAL MEN) to enter into life crippled, than having two hands to go away into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire. And if your foot should cause you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you (MORTAL MEN) to enter into life lame, than having the two feet, to be cast into Gehenna. And if your eye should cause you to stumble, cast it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into Gehenna, where ‘their (MORTAL MEN) worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

2 Thes 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them (MORTAL MEN) that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Rev 20:10
And the devil (FALLEN ANGEL) who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur (aka Gehenna), into which the beast and the false prophet (MORTAL MEN) had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Again all of this is figurative language. Revelation tells us that the Lake of fire is the second DEATH. eternal punishment/fire/destruction all mean the same thing. DESTRUCTION / DEATH If a fire were to burn eternally that would mean the thing it burns would be completely obliterated. God is raising our physical bodies-- only the believers are getting new immortal bodies, not unbelievers. Show one verse where it says unbelievers also receive new bodies and they also receive the gift of immortality--this is nowhere to be found in scripture. Again scripture needs to be tested against scripture--not picking and choosing of verses -- ALL of which use symbolic/figurative language.

We've asked this many times; Please share a few literal verses saying man's end is eternal conscious torment not using symbolic/figurative language--so far no one on the ETC side has. 'tormented day and night forever and ever'--is figurative for Eternal Punishment. What does the bible say that punishment is? DEATH.

Again hundreds of LITERAL verses say the wicked perish are destroyed are punished. This is not the dark ages everyone has access to the internet and can easily find all these verses for themselves. Again, in literal language the bible says "The wages of sin is DEATH."

Note: Angels and Satan are immortal beings --they do not have physical bodies there for cannot burn. God will simply destroy them with "the breath of His mouth and the glory of His appearing." He will speak them out of existence.

 

[cv5]

You're projecting eternal torment into the scriptures where it isn't explicitly stated. That's the difference between and interpretation and scripture. Your interpretation is that it says "eternal torment" but the actual verses say no such thing.

Now, by interpreting Revelation 14:9-11 to mean eternal torment did you add to God's word? That's between you and God now. You might want to check yourself.

You got wrecked buddy. You and your bogus doctrine.

 

[Laura798]

IT IS APPOINTED TO MAN ONCEto DIE THEN THE JUDGMENT HEBREWS 9:27


ONCE TO DIEas in physical death!

"...And then the judgment." What does the scripture say is that Judgment? DEATH. Over and over and over again the bible says "the wages of sin is DEATH."

The problem with those who believe in ETC is they only use the verses that have figurative language--
"All fanaticism comes from the isolation of verses" --we know what those figurative verses mean by reading all the literal ones.

 

[Laura798]

You got wrecked buddy. You and your bogus doctrine.

Ad hominem: reacting in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

 

[Laura798]

You are taking one description of a part of the text and making or trying to formulate a doctrine.

FYI Destroy both soul and body in hell that is done forever.

You failed to read the full context of John chapter three too. verse 16 is not the only part of the context. You must read above 3:16 and below it what does Jesus say?

18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Jesus also says in chapter 5:


24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

25Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself(eternal life ), so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,(salvation) 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Now this is very odd--Runningham quoted SCRIPTURE, then he simply pointed out the fact--the fact that is right there for anyone to read-- that only those who received Christ, the bread of life would live forever. Also what is the condemnation? The scriptures are clear--DEATH and DESTRUCTION--you can open your bible almost anywhere--Romans in particular literally says the punishment for sin is DEATH. But there are so many more....

 

[Laura798]

I have already posted Revelation 14:9-11. And proven beyond doubt that it concatenates perfectly with all the other Scriptures about eternal torment and everything else that Jesus had to say about it.

Denial of clear-cut Scripture and spreading heresies is a sin.

Yes heresy is a sin--it is heresy to attribute evil to God--and that is exactly what the false doctrine (the doctrine of demons spoken of in scripture) of Eternal Conscious Torment does.

 

[Laura798]

do you really read what was posted?

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Rev 20:10 says :

10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


FYI forever and ever in Greek is FOREVER AND EVER.

DICE IT SLICE IT, call in any Greek theologian you want, and commentary The full context of Hell which Jesus is the final authority on the SubJect of HELL HE said it is a place of eternal conditions.

Jesus is recorded in Mathew, Mark. Luke and John and in the Book of Rev and in other writings of the eternal place of hell and is torment, suffering, and gnashing of teeth. But you know better.

Again--you all use the same figurative verses over and over again--completing ignoring the hundreds of literal verses that state that DEATH and DESTRUCTION is man's end. And again if you do not believe "The wages of sin is DEATH", then that means you believe that Jesus Himself will be or is now in Eternal Conscious Torment!

 

[Laura798]

Wrong. The many Scriptures I posted clearly indicate that it is "tormented, tortured" eternally forever and ever no doubt about it.

Read my posts completely. It's all there. Undeniable despite your denials. I am not going to waste time reposting the same thing over and over again.

Annihilationism is a heresy. I have provided far more than sufficient Scriptural evidence to solidify beyond a shadow of a doubt the doctrine of eternal punishment and torture OF UNREDEEMED MORTAL MEN in the very same Gehenna fire PREPARED for the devil and his angels.

Should you choose not to listen to the words of Jesus that is your problem not mine.

CV5 said: "I am not going to waste time reposting the same thing over and over again." Good!

Yes as I said yesterday in this thread--you post the same few figurative verses over and over again and have yet to post any literal verses.

 

[Laura798]

What do you say the "eternal punishment is" in light of Jesus' own words:

Matthew 10:28
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:51
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (My words: The offer only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)

Runningman, even if the few on the ETC side never change their mind, I have been encouraged and strengthened by all the verses you and others have shared--I had never considered the multitude of ways scripture tells us there is only one eternal life and that is only for the believer--case in point John 6:51-- I had not thought of that one. Thank you for sharing that!

 

[Laura798]

That word (punishment) is actually "kolasis" Strongs G2851. But it carries with it a very similar thought. And it fits the framework of an eternal prison with eternal torments.

All of this is a surely bitter pill for the vain humanistic philosophers on this thread to swallow. But it is an abject Biblical truth nevertheless.

Never in the history of the world will you see humanistic philosophers quoting scripture to support their position.

 

[Gardenias]

"...And then the judgment." What does the scripture say is that Judgment? DEATH. Over and over and over again the bible says "the wages of sin is DEATH."

The problem with those who believe in ETC is they only use the verses that have figurative language--
"All fanaticism comes from the isolation of verses" --we know what those figurative verses mean by reading all the literal ones.

We have a truce so therefore we must just agree to disagree.
The word says what the Lord says and I believe how the Holy Spirit has led me!
I doubt very seriously on the day we are judged this will matter much.... unless we have been deceived and are not true believers of God!

 

[Laura798]

"...And then the judgment." What does the scripture say is that Judgment? DEATH. Over and over and over again the bible says "the wages of sin is DEATH."

The problem with those who believe in ETC is they only use the verses that have figurative language--
"All fanaticism comes from the isolation of verses" --we know what those figurative verses mean by reading all the literal ones.

Hi Gardenias,

I see you disagree with my post. Please then share with us the literal verses, not the figurative ones that support eternal conscious torment.

 

[Laura798]

We have a truce so therefore we must just agree to disagree.
The word says what the Lord says and I believe how the Holy Spirit has led me!
I doubt very seriously on the day we are judged this will matter much.... unless we have been deceived and are not true believers of God!

Oh but it matters a great deal--to attribute evil to God is to malign His character to the world and is blasphemy. The bible says God is just. The bible says God IS Love. We are told not to add to scripture--etc is nowhere to be found in scripture--again, Protestants got it from the Roman Catholics who in turn got this myth from the pagans--the bible tells us "do not turn aside to myths.'

PS My understanding of calling a truce is to stop being argumentative or attacking.

 

[Gardenias]

Yes heresy is a sin--it is heresy to attribute evil to God--and that is exactly what the false doctrine (the doctrine of demons spoken of in scripture) of Eternal Conscious Torment does.

Isaiah 45:5-8
Is there a book,chapter,and verse in context that states it is a sin and heresy to attribute evil to God?
Thanks

 

[Gardenias]

Oh but it matters a great deal--to attribute evil to God is to malign His character to the world and is blasphemy. The bible says God is just. The bible says God IS Love. We are told not to add to scripture--etc is nowhere to be found in scripture--again, Protestants got it from the Roman Catholics who in turn got this myth from the pagans--the bible tells us "do not turn aside to myths.'

PS My understanding of calling a truce is to stop being argumentative or attacking.

I am not attacking you but I will continue to hold my beliefs as truth. Truce only means to stop the battle not change our minds. We wrestle not against flesh and blood....each other.
Neither of us can be persuaded at this point so its time to let it rest.
I'll accept if we disagree!
I attribute nothing to God except what he says in HIS WORD!
Isaiah 46:5-8t

 

[Laura798]

Isaiah 45:5-8
Is there a book,chapter,and verse in context that states it is a sin and heresy to attribute evil to God?
Thanks

"31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."--Matthew 12:31 (this was in response to the Pharisees saying Jesus cast the demon out of a man by the power of Satan)


Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!--Isaiah 5:20

" “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.” "--Revelations 22:18


Understand that the Word of God was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gardenias]

"31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."--Matthew 12:31 (this was in response to the Pharisees saying Jesus cast the demon out of a man by the power of Satan)


Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!--Isaiah 5:20

" “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.” "--Revelations 22:18


Understand that the Word of God was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Im sorry that you seem to lack understanding of exactly WHAT the word truly says.
Remember the Holy Spirit NOT MAN is our teacher and quide.
Rightly dividing the word must be done NOT WITH ISOLATED VERSES, but in the context of what is being said.
Please stop studying with groups that believe the sons of God that came before him and Satan was among them in Job believe the sons of God are the first Adams of other planets and universes!

These are herectial teachers of false doctrines that go against the Holy Spirit word of God!

 

[Laura798]

It's impossible to be punished forever and still be alive if the sentence is plainly death. That would be like literally beating a dead horse for past offenses.

Furthermore, I am considering Isaiah 52:14 now "14As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:"

Does this suggest that Christ suffered more than anyone? If so, how is that possible if someone is suffering day and night without rest, eternally, in torment?

"It's impossible to be punished forever and still be alive if the sentence is plainly death. That would be like literally beating a dead horse for past offenses." Yes, exactly!