What causes God to hide his face?

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#281
#281
Psalm 51
Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#282
#282
Ariel82 said:
So in psalm 10 we have the wicked person murdering people and commiting all sorts of sin because they believe God is not watching and won't punish them. However, the Islamist affirms that God is watching and justice will be done. Interesting. Still needs to examine what the author means when he ask God why He hides His face...
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Well I'm not much into wondering what Islamist says of My God,

just because the evildoer thinks God has looked away doesn't mean it has happened

Psalm 10
5His ways prosper at all times; Your judgments are on high, out of his sight; As for all his adversaries, he snorts at them.
6He says to himself, “I will not be moved; Throughout all generations I will not be in adversity.”

And this means his Face as well.. See the wording "his sight all his adversaries He snorts at them and is not moved and that means not turned away..
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#283
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#283
Ariel82 said:
So in psalm 10 we have the wicked person murdering people and commiting all sorts of sin because they believe God is not watching and won't punish them. However, the Islamist affirms that God is watching and justice will be done. Interesting. Still needs to examine what the author means when he ask God why He hides His face...
Click to expand...
Eeeew, spell check is DRUNK!! :D
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#284
#284
Psalm 69
Save me, O God!
For the waters have come up to my neck.
I sink in deep mire,
Where there is no standing;
I have come into deep waters,
Where the floods overflow me.
I am weary with my crying;
My throat is dry;
My eyes fail while I wait for my God.

....

And do not hide Your face from Your servant,
For I am in trouble;
Hear me speedily.
Draw near to my soul, and redeem it;
Deliver me because of my enemies.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#286
#286
Ariel82 said:
Psalm 51
Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
Click to expand...
Now that appears to be used correctly in that context :)

Meaning please forgive me for my sins is basically what that is saying...
 
Last edited:
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#287
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#287
Ariel82 said:
Psalm 51
Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
Click to expand...
That is a great psalm!

David is prophetically looking forward and seeing the New Covenant where God creates a new creation that has a new heart - created in righteousness and holiness - all because we are now in Christ.

Now that kind of "Hide you face from my sins" is the New Covenant way. If we get our minds renewed to the truth of what God has done in Christ - it'll effect real changes in our outward behavior and thinking towards God.

It's the revelation of Christ that brings the grace needed for living.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

We can always look to Jesus while He was here on this earth - how did He treat people? Did He hide His face from them? Jesus is the exact representation of the Father's true nature. Heb. 1:1-3

God "after" he spoke in many ways and portions in the OT has in these last days spoken to us through His Son.
 
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A

Ariel82

Guest
#288
#288
Psalm 27
When You said, “Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, “Your face, Lord, I will seek.”
Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;
Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation.
When my father and my mother forsake me,
Then the Lord will take care of me.
Teach me Your way, O Lord,
And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.
Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries;
For false witnesses have risen against me,
And such as breathe out violence.
I would have lost heart, unless I had believed
That I would see the goodness of the Lord
*
*
In the land of the living.
Wait on the Lord;
Be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen your heart;
Wait, I say, on the Lord!
 
G

garee

Banned
#289
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#289
Ariel82 said:
Psalm 69
Save me, O God!
For the waters have come up to my neck.
I sink in deep mire,
Where there is no standing;
I have come into deep waters,
Where the floods overflow me.
I am weary with my crying;
My throat is dry;
My eyes fail while I wait for my God.

....

And do not hide Your face from Your servant,
For I am in trouble;
Hear me speedily.
Draw near to my soul, and redeem it;
Deliver me because of my enemies.
Click to expand...
I would think because God remains without form .Hiding his face is in respect to His grace. We see the back parts the working of His grace . But no man can see His face. Therefore we can not discover anything about the future not even one minute and name and claim it. We walk by faith the unseen grace .It teaches us to say no to ungodliness .
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#290
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#290
Ariel82 said:
Psalm 27
When You said, “Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, “Your face, Lord, I will seek.”
Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;

Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation.

When my father and my mother forsake me,
Then the Lord will take care of me.
Teach me Your way, O Lord,
And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.
Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries;
For false witnesses have risen against me,
And such as breathe out violence.
I would have lost heart, unless I had believed
That I would see the goodness of the Lord
*
*
In the land of the living.
Wait on the Lord;
Be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen your heart;
Wait, I say, on the Lord!
Click to expand...

Another good psalm. In the New Covenant it was answered.

Hebrews 13:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU,"

[SUP]6 [/SUP] so that we confidently say, "THE LORD IS MY HELPER, I WILL NOT BE AFRAID. WHAT WILL MAN DO TO ME?"
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#291
#291
Grace777x70 said:
That is a great psalm!

David is prophetically looking forward and seeing the New Covenant where God creates a new creation that has a new heart - created in righteousness and holiness - all because we are now in Christ.

Now that kind of "Hide you face from my sins" is the New Covenant way. If we get our minds renewed to the truth of what God has done in Christ - it'll effect real changes in our outward behavior and thinking towards God.

It's the revelation of Christ that brings the grace needed for living.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

We can always look to Jesus while He was here on this earth - how did He treat people? Did He hide His face from them? Jesus is the exact representation of the Father's true nature. Heb. 1:1-3

God "after" he spoke in many ways and portions in the OT has in these last days spoken to us through His Son.
Click to expand...
He did at times pray alone on mountain tops and withdrew himself in the desert.

Jesus on Earth is not the same as the Holy Spirit now.

Did Jesus hide his face from people?

It could be argued that yes at times He did. Or at the very least he went disguised.

For example when his brothers wanted to go to the festival and he said no but snuck in later anyway.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#292
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#292
I don’t think God is hiding from anyone…He says seek me and you shall find me.
He is always there and present. He doesn’t turn his back on us we turn our backs on him…
If I turn my back to you then I am not going to see your face unless I turn back around and look at you. Now that doesn’t mean that you hid your face from me does it? You didn’t hide from me, I just chose not to look at you.

I think that’s what we do…we turn from God he doesn’t turn from us…If we turn back around then he is right there for us…If we don’t turn back around, I think that is when we he chastises us to let us know that even though we turned away from him he is still there…God don’t leave us or hide from us, and even though we turn from him he still tries to get our attention. He knows exactly what it takes and how to get our attention...even if he has to chastise us...he is still there with us...He don't just turn away from us.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#293
#293
Ariel82 said:
Psalm 27
When You said, “Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, “Your face, Lord, I will seek.”
Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;
Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation.
When my father and my mother forsake me,
Then the Lord will take care of me.
Teach me Your way, O Lord,
And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.
Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries;
For false witnesses have risen against me,
And such as breathe out violence.
I would have lost heart, unless I had believed
That I would see the goodness of the Lord
*
*
In the land of the living.
Wait on the Lord;
Be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen your heart;
Wait, I say, on the Lord!
Click to expand...
The face reflects the many different moods, emotions, and thoughts of the person. The Hebrew word פנים (paniym, Strong's #6440), means "face," but is always written in the plural form (the ים suffix identifies this word as plural), reflecting this idea of multiple faces of each person. This word can also mean “presence” or the “wholeness of being” of an individual.

And the word Hide meaning "treasure up" and the word face in that verse is "wholeness of being"
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#294
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#294
Ariel82 said:
He did at times pray alone on mountain tops and withdrew himself in the desert.

Jesus on Earth is not the same as the Holy Spirit now.

Did Jesus hide his face from people?

It could be argued that yes at times He did. Or at the very least he went disguised.

For example when his brothers wanted to go to the festival and he said no but snuck in later anyway.
Click to expand...
That is a whole different kettle of fish than God hiding His face from us and the connotations that surround that when it is being taught - especially using OT scriptures of how God related to them back then. We are in a New Covenant which is built upon better promises. Jesus blood speaks of better things.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#295
#295
Matthew 14 v.22
And when He had sent the multitudes away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray. Now when evening came, He was alone there.

Luke 6v12-13
Now it came to pass in those days that He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles:

****so to answer the question: did Jesus turn His face away from people?

Yes He did, so that He might turn in through prayer towards God.

Doesn't really answer the question: does God hide His face from people Now and is it always a bad thing if He does hide His face?

Especially if the short time of trials and tribulations helps us grow and recognize the sinful parts of us that needs to die?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#296
#296
BeyondET said:
The face reflects the many different moods, emotions, and thoughts of the person. The Hebrew word פנים (paniym, Strong's #6440), means "face," but is always written in the plural form (the ים suffix identifies this word as plural), reflecting this idea of multiple faces of each person. This word can also mean “presence” or the “wholeness of being” of an individual.

And the word Hide meaning "treasure up" and the word face in that verse is "wholeness of being"
Click to expand...
I understood that many people have different faces and moods, but not sure about your definition of hide.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#297
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#297
1ofthem said:
I don’t think God is hiding from anyone…He says seek me and you shall find me.
He is always there and present. He doesn’t turn his back on us we turn our backs on him…
If I turn my back to you then I am not going to see your face unless I turn back around and look at you. Now that doesn’t mean that you hid your face from me does it? You didn’t hide from me, I just chose not to look at you.

I think that’s what we do…we turn from God he doesn’t turn from us…If we turn back around then he is right there for us…If we don’t turn back around, I think that is when we he chastises us to let us know that even though we turned away from him he is still there…God don’t leave us or hide from us, and even though we turn from him he still tries to get our attention. He knows exactly what it takes and how to get our attention...even if he has to chastise us...he is still there with us...He don't just turn away from us.
Click to expand...
Well said...but it can be our "perception" that God has turned His face away from us because of our wrong thinking which can be caused by wrong teaching which is based on how God related to people in the OT and from sin - sin is deceiving and sin distorts our view of God and of others as well as ourselves.

All scripture must be filtered through the finished work of Christ. Christ and His work has the final say in all matters.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#298
#298
Grace777x70 said:
That is a whole different kettle of fish than God hiding His face from us and the connotations that surround that when it is being taught - especially using OT scriptures of how God related to them back then. We are in a New Covenant which is built upon better promises. Jesus blood speaks of better things.
Click to expand...
First we have to understand how God related to them back then to analyze if God still related to us the same way today.

Even back then God gave the Gospel message to many of His saints.

You can see it in psalms, Isaiah, the song of moses, etc.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#299
#299
1ofthem said:
I don’t think God is hiding from anyone…He says seek me and you shall find me.
He is always there and present. He doesn’t turn his back on us we turn our backs on him…
If I turn my back to you then I am not going to see your face unless I turn back around and look at you. Now that doesn’t mean that you hid your face from me does it? You didn’t hide from me, I just chose not to look at you.

I think that’s what we do…we turn from God he doesn’t turn from us…If we turn back around then he is right there for us…If we don’t turn back around, I think that is when we he chastises us to let us know that even though we turned away from him he is still there…God don’t leave us or hide from us, and even though we turn from him he still tries to get our attention. He knows exactly what it takes and how to get our attention...even if he has to chastise us...he is still there with us...He don't just turn away from us.
Click to expand...
Turning His back is not the same as hiding His face.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#300
#300
Psalm 27
When You said, “Seek My wholesome of being ,”
My heart said to You, “Your wholesome of being, Lord, I will seek.”
Do not treasure up Your wholesome of being from me;

Ahh much better...
 
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