What Changed?

[Everlasting-Grace]

So...when God "came down" to rescue, deliver and redeem the ancient Hebrews from Pharaoh's power, that was not a gracious act of God since he exerted great power against the Egyptians to accomplish his purpose? If not a gracious act, then how would you characterize God's redemption of his chosen people?

So God showed Grace on Egypt?

God had a purpose. he had a plan and he made a covenant with Abraham. So he exerted his power (not grace) on egypt to not only show them, and Israel. but the world. he was the one true God.

Rom 9: 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The "flesh" also denotes the sin nature. But you are correct: God's grace must "suppress" over overcome the sin nature in order for a person to have heartfelt faith.

so Gods love has nothing to do with it..lol

Fatalists come up with some strange thinking

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The sin nature is just a term. It is sad how so many churches take terms that are used to describe something, and try to make thi8ngs out of them.

Sin nature by definition is the nature that is prone towards sin. It is the desire, and actually the response to the flesh. which states I have to take care of self.

It is a response to a hole filled in the human heart when the separation between God and man came as a result of sin. We were created to recieve Gods love, he created us to serve us, when that was removed. The whole needed to be filled. and it is our sin nature that attempts due to lack of faith to fill that hole. by whatever means we can.

That same desire or need to serve and take care of se;lf can easily be manipulated or convinced by God that our only source of help is him, That we are lost (we know it because Paul tells us in romans 1 So if we already know we are lost. All God has to do is convince us we need him to be saved.

Thats why we do not come to the light as Jesus said, because our sin will be exposed

Thats why we hide the truth in our hearts, and make up our own Gods. to serve us. and reject the one true God. because we love our sin

And thats why jesus said blessed are the poor in spirit (literally Bankrupt) for theirs is the kingdom.

God takes us to our knees,. just like the tax collector. so we cry out for Gods mercy, Not even Knowing if God will respond. But those who do recieve God have no doubt after. they are changed, they are not the same people. God made them into a new creature. They are not of those who return to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

They then spend a lifetime trying to move away from the fleshly need and lack of faith. to learn to replace that selfishness with Gods love. as he takes care of their needs..

 

[homwardbound]

The heart is the part of our mind where we hold our faith, values, and convictions.

“As a man thinks in his heart, so is he."

Prov 23:7a
I do not think so as you just said, why?
Renew our mind is left after one anyone decides to believe God in risen Son for them. our minds do not mind as I know my own old mind
I need to see Romans 12:2 after wondering the input of Rom 12:1 first, seeing "I" am not perfect and cannot perfect ever of me to God. I am a sinner, I have sinned, whether I still sin or not, matters not, all I have ever had to do is sin at least once and I am not qualified. I am not able to be perfect of me ever, even though caught up in want to be. "I" can't, that is settled in me now. Me by God for me only. I am as Paul and the other disciples are, born again by God, Not to work at it for it, and Son for us all where new life begins in the resurrected Son Jesus for each person personally to believe first between God and them each personally. Thanks​

We are given the new Heart from God Father in the risen Son Jesus, saved by God, not self or anyone else. Then the mind sets are to be renewed in truth, As Only God Father of risen Son is truth and the only one good to this day.
Matthew 19, reveals the annihilation of all flesh. When the disciples asked Jesus, how will anyone ever enter Heaven, as they saw that rich person walk away sad, who said he had obeyed Law from childhood on,
Jesus replied
"With man it is impossible!
With God (his Father) all things are possible
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
That annihilates all flesh to be able to get in under Law, unless one becomes a torso, no arms, no legs, no eyes, no tongue, hoping you get it thanks

.​

 

[Rufus]

So God showed Grace on Egypt?

God had a purpose. he had a plan and he made a covenant with Abraham. So he exerted his power (not grace) on egypt to not only show them, and Israel. but the world. he was the one true God.

Rom 9: 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”

No, God showed Grace to the Israelites. The Exodus account does not teach that God "came down" to 'rescue" the Egyptians! Were the Egyptians the covenant people of God or was Israel?

So...again...I ask: When God came down to rescue and redeem his covenant people the Isaralities from evil Pharaoh, was that act of Redemption gracious in nature or not? If not, then how would you characterize God's rescue mission of the Israelites?

 

[Rufus]

Mr. EG, I have another question for you. Scripture tells us that God drove all the pagan nations out of the promised land so that his covenant people Israel would be able to occupy it (Deut 7:1-2). Were all the battles that God fought through Israel or on their behalf gracious acts in nature or not? if not, how would you characterize the nature of those acts? See also:

Ps 44:2-3
2 With your hand you drove out the nations
and planted our fathers;
you crushed the peoples
and made our fathers flourish.
3 It was not by their sword that they won the land,
nor did their arm bring them victory;
it was your right hand, your arm,
and the light of your face, for you loved them.
NIV

Deut 31:2-4
2 "I am now a hundred and twenty years old and I am no longer able to lead you. The LORD has said to me, 'You shall not cross the Jordan.' 3 The LORD your God himself will cross over ahead of you. He will destroy these nations before you, and you will take possession of their land. Joshua also will cross over ahead of you, as the LORD said. 4 And the LORD will do to them what he did to
Sihon and Og, the kings of the Amorites, whom he destroyed along with their land.
NIV

 

[Genez]

​

He is not equating his power with Grace. His power is what empowers us.​

​

​

Um No paul did not say this. Gods love is what empower us, we love because he first loved us, Grace is a part of Gods love, based on the death of Christ. which is offered to all mankind,.


Gods love.

Even Jesus said the two greatest commands are love. In these two commands are all of the law and prophets.

Grace is what I said it what. And is based on the power of Gods love.

Nice to have met you....

grace and peace.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, God showed Grace to the Israelites. The Exodus account does not teach that God "came down" to 'rescue" the Egyptians! Were the Egyptians the covenant people of God or was Israel?

So...again...I ask: When God came down to rescue and redeem his covenant people the Isaralities from evil Pharaoh, was that act of Redemption gracious in nature or not? If not, then how would you characterize God's rescue mission of the Israelites?

It was god keeping his promise. It was nto an act of grace no. Because he sent them to the wilderness where they had no home. and they remained their (most all of them) until they died..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Mr. EG, I have another question for you. Scripture tells us that God drove all the pagan nations out of the promised land so that his covenant people Israel would be able to occupy it (Deut 7:1-2). Were all the battles that God fought through Israel or on their behalf gracious acts in nature or not? if not, how would you characterize the nature of those acts? See also:

Ps 44:2-3
2 With your hand you drove out the nations
and planted our fathers;
you crushed the peoples
and made our fathers flourish.
3 It was not by their sword that they won the land,
nor did their arm bring them victory;
it was your right hand, your arm,
and the light of your face, for you loved them.
NIV

Deut 31:2-4
2 "I am now a hundred and twenty years old and I am no longer able to lead you. The LORD has said to me, 'You shall not cross the Jordan.' 3 The LORD your God himself will cross over ahead of you. He will destroy these nations before you, and you will take possession of their land. Joshua also will cross over ahead of you, as the LORD said. 4 And the LORD will do to them what he did to
Sihon and Og, the kings of the Amorites, whom he destroyed along with their land.
NIV

No

God kept his promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Are you going to deny that Gods power is in his love? You really want to go there??

 

[Cameron143]

No

God kept his promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Are you going to deny that Gods power is in his love? You really want to go there??

Isn't God's power in His omnipotence?

 

[Rufus]

It was god keeping his promise. It was nto an act of grace no. Because he sent them to the wilderness where they had no home. and they remained their (most all of them) until they died..

He sent them into the wilderness because the promised land was far away from Egypt. They had to go through the wilderness to get to it. And the Jews remained in the wilderness for 40 years due to their disobedience! It was no fault of God that an entire generation died and weren't permitted to enter the land.

And if God's covenant with Abraham was a gracious covenant due to the promises therein, then by what logic does God's acts in keeping the promise become ungracious!?

 

[PaulThomson]

Oh...so you're pulling a PT: When you come across a passage that militates against your version of the gospel, you just "cull" it out from the rest of scripture and conveniently label it "irrelevant to us today". Cute.

You shall not beaf false witness against your neighbour. Show one example of me culling a scripture. Disagreeing with your interpretation of a scripture and offering an alternative contextualised interpretation, is not "culling" it.

 

[PaulThomson]

Nope. Dead men have no ability to function spiritually. Life precedes Faith. This is how man is made willing in the DAY of GOD'S POWER.

When my leg is dead/asleep it has become numb and unfeeling, unresponsive to its environment through a lack of circulatiion. I can still move it and get the circulation working so that it starts to feel again. Dead does not always mean physically incapable of any action. Dead does not need to mean incapable of any spiritual action. You are culling out most of the spectrum of the uses of "dead" in order to pretend the bible teaches the LOUPI doctrines of grease.

 

[PaulThomson]

Also, I don't "remove faith from the equation". How can I remove faith when faith itself is a Gift from God! ?But to preserve the integrity of the Death simile, then its eminently logical, as well as biblical, that in order to preserve the integrity of the parallels to the simile that speaks to physical and spiritual death, we should understand spiritual death in the same way we understand physical death, that is to say, that in both cases there is no longer any functionality in either realm. Just as the physically dead can no longer function physically once the soul separates from the body, likewise the spiritually dead ceased to function spiritually when Adam sinned and the Spirit departed from him, which is how he DIED on that day of disobedience.

A leg that has gone numb and unfeeling of its environment from lack of circulation is called dead. The word "dead" does not have the limited semantic range you are forcing upon it in scripture to shore up your LOUPI doctrines of grease.

 

[PaulThomson]

PT has previously twisted Mat 11:27 so out of shape, the verse no longer says what it does. He didn't care for the fact that Jesus gets to decide who lives and who doesn't. I guess he thought that was "unfair".

You shall not bear false witness. If you are going to make an accusation in a post against a person, you should include some evidence: at least a link to the offence you are accusing them of.

 

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
Matt. 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Jesus is speaking to disciples before the cross and resurrection. The verse says that everything that is being given to Jesus to say and do at THAT time is from the Father. The verse also says no one except the Father knows the Son at THAT time. The verse also says that no one except the Son at THAT time knows the Father, but only those to whom Jesus wills at THAT time to reveal the Father.

Are you reading more into the text than it says?

No I'm not. But are you by placing arbitrary time frame on Jesus?

It is not putting an "arbitrary" time frame on Jesus words to explain them according to their historical context. There is nothing "arbitrary" about that.
ARBITRARY: based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
"an arbitrary decision"

 

[homwardbound]

I enjoy your spontaneous praise, but it sometimes leaves me wondering of its connection to my posts.

thank you, I just hear and post, according to what I hear, not that I am right, God only is in his continued love and mercy, that you experienced to and are floored at it, since God is not punishing us, when we know God should be punishing and does not as people, religion assuredly does
i asked God why God is not? I got Romans 2;1-4 as the answer. So, I stopped beating me up, and began trust for God to straighten me up. Rom 14:1-4 seeing later on in that same chapter, Paul saying “ I know and am convinced all things are clean of itself”
I heard it is what anyone does with anything that is cleansed by God in risen Son that keeps it clean in thanksgiving and praise or uses it for gain here and now, these people-mess it up
thanks, hoping this helps in your walk

 

[Rufus]

No

God kept his promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Are you going to deny that Gods power is in his love? You really want to go there??

Again, how is God's promise-keeping not gracious!? Did Abraham, Issac and Jacob deserve the promises in the first place? Or was God indebted to the patriarchs to make promises? In your world when God actually works in space and time to fulfill his promises, such as actually getting the Israelities into the land, then that action is ungracious? If the words of promise were gracious, then how on this little green planet does God fulfilling the promises become ungracious? If anything, the actual fulfillment is even more gracious!

And arguing from the love angle does not help your case. It actually helps mine because true biblical love is always proactive! Agape love is never a mere passive love! (Read the Sermon on the Mount for starters!) God didn't love his OC people with just mere words (e.g. empty promises) but with numerous acts of kindness in space and time to fulfill his promises, which very often entailed great and miraculous powerful acts. The Exodus out of Egypt is the supreme example when God had to exert great power to free his people from the yoke of slavery. And fighting battles for the Jews to actually occupy the land is another great example. God preserving the Jews in the wilderness by feeding them and protecting them from their enemies is another great example, etc.

In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, who displayed great love toward an enemy (a Jew), was not the Samaritan's charitable and caring acts gracious in nature, or would real grace have only been manifested by the Samaritan by merely telling the Jew, as he casually walked by him, "I love you"? According to your logic true grace, motivated by love, could have been manifested only in the latter scenario! Likewise, in your world God's words in his covenant promises to the patriarchs are truly gracious, yet when God actually delivers on those promises in time and space those acts are ungracious! Such torturous logic!

 

[homwardbound]

I'm already assured of God's love for me.

I would be interested to know what led you to believe I don't.

‘I am not judging anyone, on whether or not anyone believes. I am reminding and I never get tired of saying it to everyone as ‘Paul says in ‘Phil 3

 

[Rufus]

PaulThomson said:
Matt. 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Jesus is speaking to disciples before the cross and resurrection. The verse says that everything that is being given to Jesus to say and do at THAT time is from the Father. The verse also says no one except the Father knows the Son at THAT time. The verse also says that no one except the Son at THAT time knows the Father, but only those to whom Jesus wills at THAT time to reveal the Father.

Are you reading more into the text than it says?


It is not putting an "arbitrary" time frame on Jesus words to explain them according to their historical context. There is nothing "arbitrary" about that.
ARBITRARY: based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
"an arbitrary decision"

Nah...I don't think so.