What did the Jew receive first?

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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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0
Let's start over for the 5th time and see if we can come to agreement as Children of God should, but I suppose there will be more ranting to follow. Longsuffering activated. The switch has been turned on. LOL

Ephesians 4:1-3
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called ,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

I really want this to be a learning thread rather than an arguing thread, so whoever wants to argue rather than learn and share, please do not contribute. Then we will see how much good this Bible study forum can be.

So the question is "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?"

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the *dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Dispensation=3622. oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

Revelation=
602. apokalupsis ap-ok-al'-oop-sis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Mystery=
3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by

initiation
into religious rites
):--mystery.
Nope. . .previously addressed. . .multiple times.

"Religious rites" is not the NT meaning of "mystery."

That is its pagan usage and meaning.

initiation as in start/begin=God's will from the beginning and introduced at the appropriate time sequence.

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites.
So to what "religious rite" is Paul referring to in these "mysteries"?

Which is it, "mystery" is "a religious rite," as the word was used by the pagans,

or "mystery" is what "in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed
," as the word is used in the NT?

They aren't the same.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
Like Paul, we too are presenting the gospel as fast as our little feet will carry us.
Come on now,
can't you bring yourself to act like you are under the law, or don't you know how to act concerning its concepts of truth?
Where is that command in the NT?

I am commanded to present the gospel.
 
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J

JesusIsAll

Guest
The truth speaks for itself. But, speaking of scripture attacking, then, have at it. Afterwards, get back to proselytizing the beggarly elements of what weird sort of Judaism you espouse, non-stop, which is neither of the faith of the Old or New Testament.

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Matthew 23:23-28 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Pert near sum peoples jes be a' puttin' wurds in da mouths 'o uthers. Guessin' deys mouth ain't big nuff already, mercy!
Deys big 'nuff to bees puttin' deys feet in 'em.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Again, it is a matter of opposing learning from scripture on one side, and the other sticking together in their personal attacks. So "whining" is a new attack method, and those opposed to even speaking of scripture gather together to use any method to attack scripture. Now, giving scripture becomes "whining". Really, it is an improvement on some of the other opposition to scripture through using personal attacks!
You have them confused with someone else.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
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Nope. . .previously addressed. . .multiple times.

"Religious rites" is not the NT meaning of "mystery."

That is its pagan usage and meaning.


So to what "religious rite" is Paul referring to in these "mysteries"?

Which is it, "mystery" is "a religious rite," as the word was used by the pagans,

or "mystery" is what "in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed
," as the word is used in the NT?

They aren't the same.
I'm not asking you to address it. What you've said before is nothing more than a discredit to the substance, and to me and many others that's seems to be all that you are capable of doing.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Deys big 'nuff to bees puttin' deys feet in 'em.
Surein' da Lord dun gives yoo openin' 'o da eyes, Elin, pert near fittin' mah garage junk in sum thos mouths, 'O Gran Canyon 'o mercy!
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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The truth speaks for itself. But, speaking of scripture attacking, then, have at it. Afterwards, get back to proselytizing the beggarly elements of what weird sort of Judaism you espouse, non-stop, which is neither of the faith of the Old or New Testament.

.
You have posted these scripture of truth before, and I have addressed them before. Every single scripture is being used by you to prove something that is not truth. If a scripture is points to something wrong, you say it applies to everything that in your personal mind you think if wrong. If a scripture is telling of love, you use it to say you love (hahaha) and all others don't. If a scripture points out that we are not to go by the law of Moses having to do with physical ritual and physical reminders of law, you use it to point out the holy law, the spiritual law.

Using scripture in the way you are doing is copying the tactics we are told the devil used when Christ was tempted those 40 days Christ spent in the desert.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Where is that command in the NT?

I am commanded to present the gospel.
Act like Paul and save me.
1 Corinthians 9:20-22
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
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You have posted these scripture of truth before, and I have addressed them before. Every single scripture is being used by you to prove something that is not truth. If a scripture is points to something wrong, you say it applies to everything that in your personal mind you think if wrong. If a scripture is telling of love, you use it to say you love (hahaha) and all others don't. If a scripture points out that we are not to go by the law of Moses having to do with physical ritual and physical reminders of law, you use it to point out the holy law, the spiritual law.

Using scripture in the way you are doing is copying the tactics we are told the devil used when Christ was tempted those 40 days Christ spent in the desert.
That's normal and comes along with attacking rather than a heart that truly desires others to come to the knowledge of the truth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what the motives are, and why the attacks are constant. Pharisees where real good at that. Same thing then as it is now.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
You have posted these scripture of truth before, and I have addressed them before. Every single scripture is being used by you to prove something that is not truth. If a scripture is points to something wrong, you say it applies to everything that in your personal mind you think if wrong. If a scripture is telling of love, you use it to say you love (hahaha) and all others don't. If a scripture points out that we are not to go by the law of Moses having to do with physical ritual and physical reminders of law, you use it to point out the holy law, the spiritual law.

Using scripture in the way you are doing is copying the tactics we are told the devil used when Christ was tempted those 40 days Christ spent in the desert.
You have him confused with someone else.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
Where is that command in the NT?

I am commanded to present the gospel.
Act like Paul and save me.
1 Corinthians 9:20-22
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
Non-responsive.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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107
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You have him confused with someone else.
Another description for redundant.
(of words or data) able to be omitted without loss of meaning or function.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
That's normal and comes along with attacking
rather than a heart that truly desires others to come to the knowledge of the truth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what the motives are, and why the attacks are constant. Pharisees where real good at that. Same thing then as it is now.
You have them confused with someone else
 
Mar 4, 2013
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I'll try to present the OP for the 6th time, but if I do it on this page it will be swamped and lost by the attacks, so I will wait for the top of the next page. Ha Ha ;)
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Let's start over for the 4th time and see if we can come to agreement as Children of God should.

I really want this to be a learning thread rather than an arguing thread, so whoever wants to argue rather than learn and share, please do not contribute. Then we will see how much good this Bible study forum can be.

So the question is "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?"

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the *dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Dispensation=3622. oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

Revelation=
602. apokalupsis ap-ok-al'-oop-sis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Mystery=
3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by *initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

*initiation as in start/begin=God's will from the beginning and introduced at the appropriate time sequence.
Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever
NOW revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets of the NT

Peter was given the vision concerning "nothing is unclean"; that salvation was also for the Gentiles because God gave them the like gift as he did unto us who believed. Did they fully understand the implication?

Paul was given by revelation that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs - heirs to all things in Christ, heirs to eternal life, of the same body with Christ as the head, i.e. the church and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel - being baptized by one Spirit into ONE body where there is no distinction between Jew nor Gentile.

All I want to know is - are you saying that this "mystery" was known before Paul revealed it in his letters?
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, if you have heard of the administration of the grace of God which is given me [Paul] to you ward: how that by revelation he made known unto me [Paul] the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, whereby, when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit [NT apostles and prophets, that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers in Christ by the gospel

Yes it was. (Matthew 13:11) Keep in mind that Jesus taught before the New Testament was in place.
v6 - Gentiles fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers in Christ - That is the mystery and it was revealed to Paul during the administration of grace which began with the church, the one body so could not have been recorded in Matt. for God said it was hid. Paul was not chosen as an apostle nor disciple until Acts - after Christ ascension which made available the new birth, baptized by the Spirit into one body.

Constantly repeating yourself does not make something true.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
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For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, if you have heard of the administration of the grace of God which is given me [Paul] to you ward: how that by revelation he made known unto me [Paul] the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, whereby, when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit [NT apostles and prophets, that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers in Christ by the gospel


v6 - Gentiles fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers in Christ - That is the mystery and it was revealed to Paul during the administration of grace which began with the church, the one body so could not have been recorded in Matt. for God said it was hid. Paul was not chosen as an apostle nor disciple until Acts - after Christ ascension which made available the new birth, baptized by the Spirit into one body.

Constantly repeating yourself does not make something true.
Please address this most recent post #374 along with post 344 and 345

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites. Are those rites the same as what the Jew's received previously, or are they different? If so, are the Gentiles grafted into the same promise that God gave to Israel?
 
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Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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Act like Paul and save me.
1 Corinthians 9:20-22
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
I have to ask: Why do you continually separate the Jew and the Gentile when in God's eyes there is NO LONGER Jew nor Gentile but all are one in the body of Christ?

I am camping right now and may not be able to get back until tomorrow. God bless until then!