What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?

[SeaBass]

Some people cannot just accept that God is the author and finisher of our salvation. Period. To their thinking it HAS to be THEM in it..at least at some part...else God is unfair etc. Missing out the ONLY thing that counts: God's righteousness. This sort of pride is devastating as it goofs out on the very most crucial matter of them all.

No one here that I have seen denies that God saves. The issue is who does God save and why does He save them?

Heb 5:9; Rom 6:16; Acts 10:35 among many many more verses show that God saves those that obey His will.

One is either in a state of obeying God (doing righteousness) or disobeying God (doing unrighteousness). As long as one remains in a state of doing unrighteousness he will be lost therefore the only way out of a state of unrighteousness is by doing righteousness, Acts 10:35.

1 Jn 3:10 "....whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God..."

Whosoever continues in not doing righteousness (continues in unrighteousness) continues to NOT be of God.

So the 'faith only' crowd remains frustrated in trying to find a way to get one to be 'of God' without that one having to do any righteousness at all. Again, for as long as one continues in unrighteousness he continues to be not of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Nothing quite like jerking things out of context.

Work out, show forth in your life what God has worked within, per the next verse, Php 2:13.

It seems obvious he doesn't study words as he is secure in his work for program....MANY will claim their works and Jesus will say...I never knew you...for sure.....!

 

[SeaBass]

Only once we lose our pride will we realize that only the blood of Christ can save us.

This does not answer/change/undo what kennethcaldwell posted:

Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? "

No one can call Jesus his "Lord" until one DOES what Christ said to do. The plain implication is those without obedient works in doing what Christ said do not have Jesus as their Lord.

 

[SeaBass]

It's almost like a denial thing or a salvation by works. The medium is because we love God is why we do it.

No verse says "do nothing and thou shalt be saved"

Many, many verses though put OBEDIENCE BEFORE salvation.

Rom 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You either serve:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Faith only rules out # 2 for those that follow that man-made doctrine.

One obeys UNTO righteousnessNo obedience = not righteous
"whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is NOT of God' 1 Jn 3:10

(Now if Elin holds true to what she has done in the past, she will come along and try to redefine righteousness in Rom 6 in a failed effort to find a way, anyway, anything she can pull out of thin air to avoid the simple fact one must obey unto righteousness.)

 

[dcontroversal]

By us saying we can save ourselves by our works removes the words of Jesus when He said "It is finished". When Jesus said those words did He mean it's finished but you still have to work to be saved? I think not! He said "It is finished" because he paid the FULL price for our sins. Our works do not "wash" over us...the blood of Christ washes over us.

I agree totally....The bible does not say....when I see the blood and YOUR works I will pass over you...it is clear...when GOD sees the blood of Christ applied unto a believer by FAITH HE WILL PASS OVER....HE also does not say...when I see the BLOOD, WORKS and WATER I will pass over you....quite simply...WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD I WILL PASS OVER YOU....simple FOR SURE

Campbellites and all who teach works and baptism totally ignore this simple truth from the scripture...GOD looks and if he sees the BLOOD he passes over in judgment...PERIOD!

 

[elf3]

What is implied here is that if we call Jesus Lord we will obey His commands. If we say we call Jesus Lord then totally disregard His teaching then is He really our Lord or is it just "lip service".

If Jesus is truly our Lord then we will want to obey Him.

 

[elf3]

Here are some of the problems I see when we have a salvation by works or a sanctification by works.

First the power of the blood is what saves us (as in the finished work of Christ). By saying we are saved by our works we reduce the power of the blood.

Second by saying we are sanctified by our works removes the power of the Holy Spirit.

By removing any of God's power in any way makes God no more omnipotent. Also by these we remove part of God's Sovereignty thus now making Him not sovereign.

By removing any part of God's attributes makes God not God.

 

[elf3]

No verse says "do nothing and thou shalt be saved"

Many, many verses though put OBEDIENCE BEFORE salvation.

Rom 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You either serve:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Faith only rules out # 2 for those that follow that man-made doctrine.

One obeys UNTO righteousnessNo obedience = not righteous
"whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is NOT of God' 1 Jn 3:10

(Now if Elin holds true to what she has done in the past, she will come along and try to redefine righteousness in Rom 6 in a failed effort to find a way, anyway, anything she can pull out of thin air to avoid the simple fact one must obey unto righteousness.)

My question to you would be how do we become obedient to God before we even know Him? We cannot obey laws if we do not know them first so we cannot obey God until we know Him first.

And we would never seek after God unless He did not seek us first.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Here are some of the problems I see when we have a salvation by works...

The problem I see is how on earth is this even some argument in 2014? The entire debate is over doctrinal milk, a shameful one, matters resolved clearly in the first century, right there in the New Testament. The church is one very sick puppy.

 

[elf3]

No verse says "do nothing and thou shalt be saved"

Many, many verses though put OBEDIENCE BEFORE salvation.

Rom 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You either serve:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Faith only rules out # 2 for those that follow that man-made doctrine.

One obeys UNTO righteousnessNo obedience = not righteous
"whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is NOT of God' 1 Jn 3:10

(Now if Elin holds true to what she has done in the past, she will come along and try to redefine righteousness in Rom 6 in a failed effort to find a way, anyway, anything she can pull out of thin air to avoid the simple fact one must obey unto righteousness.)

We are never obedient to God until he saves us from our disobedience.

 

[SeaBass]

Yeah, Paul got it wrong in Eph 2:8-9.

8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 - Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10- For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1) faith itself is a work so "not of works" opf v9 cannot be excluding the work of faith 1 Thess 1:3.
2) "not of works" is excluding works of merit and not obedience to God's. Paul says in Rom 6 that obedient works do save and Paul does not contradict himself.
3) If "not of works" of v9 excludes obedient works in doing God's will, then that implies one can fragrantly disobey God and be saved, be saved while doing unrighteousness when John said whosoever doeth NOT righteousenss is NOT of God.
4) if "not of works" in verse 9 excludes ALL types of works then that would exclude the works of v10, good works that God has pre-ordained Christians to walk in, so faith only crowd creates a whole host of contradictions with Eph 2:8-10

 

[JesusIsAll]

Even take the aspect of bickering over doctrinal milk out of the discussion for a minute: does anybody here ever just get very bored, repeating the same things over and over, day after day?

 

[elf3]

8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 - Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10- For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1) faith itself is a work so "not of works" opf v9 cannot be excluding the work of faith 1 Thess 1:3.
2) "not of works" is excluding works of merit and not obedience to God's. Paul says in Rom 6 that obedient works do save and Paul does not contradict himself.
3) If "not of works" of v9 excludes obedient works in doing God's will, then that implies one can fragrantly disobey God and be saved, be saved while doing unrighteousness when John said whosoever doeth NOT righteousenss is NOT of God.
4) if "not of works" in verse 9 excludes ALL types of works then that would exclude the works of v10, good works that God has pre-ordained Christians to walk in, so faith only crowd creates a whole host of contradictions with Eph 2:8-10

The difference is our faith (which you describe as a works) is not our own. Verse 8 our faith is a gift from God. It's not our work its God's work.

 

[SeaBass]

Previously addressed.

You've trotted that out before.

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselvesfrom all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, yesinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8.

....and I will keep trotting out these bible verses that show man most definitely has a role in his own salvation....

 

[SeaBass]

Straw man. . .and false conclusion, it does not follow the premise.

You call a biblical fact a straw man.

The implication of Lk 6:46 is one cannot call Jesus "Lord" without doing what the Lord has said.

 

[elf3]

Even take the aspect of bickering over doctrinal milk out of the discussion for a minute: does anybody here ever just get very bored, repeating the same things over and over, day after day?

Yes it does get tiring but are we just to give up or keep on repeating the truth? Maybe someone not involved in the discussion will read this and understand. That's why I will keep speaking the truth, not for me, but for the Glory of God.

 

[SeaBass]

We are saved by the blood of Christ we are being sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. We still have a creature responsibility to obey the moral laws of God and the commandments given to us by Jesus. We are not saved by our works or sanctified by our works. Our works come about by us wanting to obey God.

The bible clearly teaches that doing God's (doing righteousness) will saves. I have yet to see anyone show how one who does unrighteousness and continues to do unrighteousness can be saved. cf 1 Jn 3:10 "whosoever DOETH NOT righteousness is NOT of God". This is essential what Jesus is saying in Lk 6:46 whosoever do not the things Christ says in not of Christ - CHrist is not their Lord.

 

[elf3]

What is implied here is that if we call Jesus Lord we will obey His commands. If we say we call Jesus Lord then totally disregard His teaching then is He really our Lord or is it just "lip service".

If Jesus is truly our Lord then we will want to obey Him.

You call a biblical fact a straw man.

The implication of Lk 6:46 is one cannot call Jesus "Lord" without doing what the Lord has said.

I believe I answered this already

 

[elf3]

The bible clearly teaches that doing God's (doing righteousness) will saves. I have yet to see anyone show how one who does unrighteousness and continues to do unrighteousness can be saved. cf 1 Jn 3:10 "whosoever DOETH NOT righteousness is NOT of God". This is essential what Jesus is saying in Lk 6:46 whosoever do not the things Christ says in not of Christ - CHrist is not their Lord.

1 John 3:10 does not say we are saved by our works. It says that's how you can tell the difference between the saved and unsaved.

 

[SeaBass]

Nothing quite like jerking things out of context.

Work out, show forth in your life what God has worked within, per the next verse, Php 2:13.

It's not taken out of context. it says IN CONTEST to work out your own salvation. The implication is salvation cannot be obtained with your WORKING it out.

v12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
v13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

"For" in verse 13 gives explanation to verse 12. Those that are working out their salvation by obeying what God says, then God is working in them. If God says do "x" and I do "x" then God is working in me by me doing what God said to do. God is not working those that sit and do nothing refusing to do what God said to do.

Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

God commanded Noah to build an ark to the saving of his house. Noah "worked out his salvation" by building the ark and thereby God would working in Noah by Noah obeying God's command to build the ark.

If Noah refused to obey God, then he would not be working out his salvation and God would not be working in Noah's disobedience.