What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?

[SeaBass]

By us saying we can save ourselves by our works removes the words of Jesus when He said "It is finished". When Jesus said those words did He mean it's finished but you still have to work to be saved? I think not! He said "It is finished" because he paid the FULL price for our sins. Our works do not "wash" over us...the blood of Christ washes over us.

Jesus never said man's work is finished. His work on earth was finished.


"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed"
Jn 6:27

Jesus said to labour/work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.
No labour = no everlasting life.

 

[elf3]

Jesus never said man's work is finished. His work on earth was finished.


"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed"
Jn 6:27

Jesus said to labour/work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.
No labour = no everlasting life.

Our eternal life is something received not something to be achieved

 

[SeaBass]

Funny how you will quote a little statement to prove your heretical stance.....

1-NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE......
2-IT IS THE GIFT of GOD...NOT OF WORKS
3-BELIEVE AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED
4-IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH AND BELIEVE WITH THINE HEART
5-WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM IS NOT PERSHING BUT IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

Good luck with your Campbellite doctrine in the day of your judgment and Jesus says...I NEVER KNEW YOU as YOU CLAIM ALL THE WONDERFUL works that YOU HAVE done while claiming your right to enter the Kingdom!

You have not learned anything about how works are used in the bible.

1- works of merit NOT obedience to God's will. You are implying one can willfully disobey God and still be saved.
2- "not of works" refer to works of merit and not obedience to God. You still imply one willfully disobey God and still be saved.
3- believing is a work, Jn 6:27-29
4- confessing with the mouth and believing are both works.
5- belief is a work, Jn 6:27-29

 

[SeaBass]

What is implied here is that if we call Jesus Lord we will obey His commands. If we say we call Jesus Lord then totally disregard His teaching then is He really our Lord or is it just "lip service".

If Jesus is truly our Lord then we will want to obey Him.

Lk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

The implication is Jesus is NOT the Lord of those that do NOT do what He says. Therefore one must first do what Jesus says in order to call Him "Lord". Jesus is essentially saying "why are you calling Me "Lord" when you are not doing what I say?

 

[dcontroversal]

You have not learned anything about how works are used in the bible.

1- works of merit NOT obedience to God's will. You are implying one can willfully disobey God and still be saved.
2- "not of works" refer to works of merit and not obedience to God. You still imply one willfully disobey God and still be saved.
3- believing is a work, Jn 6:27-29
4- confessing with the mouth and believing are both works.
5- belief is a work, Jn 6:27-29

Well first of all I didn't imply anything of the such....
Second....it is you who is blind to the fact that eternal salvation is not based upon anything but faith, grace and mercy
Third...I have never said ANYWHERE that a child of God will not do the works which are EVIDENCE of genuine faith
Fourth...ALL YOU DO is peddle another man's heresy, CAMPBELL is his name and his theology WILL take you to hell!

 

[elf3]

You see here is part of the problem. You pick and choose single verses to defend your position without reading the before and after. By picking out just one verse at a time you are taking things out of context and making them say what you want.

For example your 1 John 3:10 verse you use. Read all of 1 John 3. 1 John 3:7 "...He who does what is right is righteous just as he is righteous". It doesn't say we are made righteous but we are righteous. In the eyes of God we are seen as righteous because of the good we are doing.

 

[elf3]

Lk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

The implication is Jesus is NOT the Lord of those that do NOT do what He says. Therefore one must first do what Jesus says in order to call Him "Lord". Jesus is essentially saying "why are you calling Me "Lord" when you are not doing what I say?

Just as you just did with Dc you take and twist words around to hear what you want and ignore what they are saying.

 

[SeaBass]

My question to you would be how do we become obedient to God before we even know Him? We cannot obey laws if we do not know them first so we cannot obey God until we know Him first.

And we would never seek after God unless He did not seek us first.

WE come to know God through His word, the bible. This written word is how God draws....

Jn 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

Men are "taught", 'hear' and 'learn" of God then men of their own free will "cometh unto Me".

Deut 4:29 "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."

Prov 8:17 "I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me."

Jer 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

Matt 7:7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

Acts 17:27 "That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:"

Man has been given the responsibility to seek God so man can find God. So those that choose to seek God are in that sense, "saving themselves" by fulfilling their role in their own salvation by seeking God. One will never find God by sitting and doing nothing.

 

[SeaBass]

We are never obedient to God until he saves us from our disobedience.

God does not save anyone while they remain in their disobedience. Man must first repent of his disobedience/doing unrighteousness and start obeying God/doing righteousness then God saves.

1 Cor 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?"

The unrighteous are lost and remain that way until they repent of their unrighteousness and start doing God's righteousness/obey God's will.

1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...."

It is impossible to get the unrighteous saved (be of God) while they CONTINUE to not do righteousness.

 

[elf3]

Did God reach out to us or did we reach out to Him? If we in fact were seeking after Him then why did He send His Son to die for us? Did we ask God to do this or by God's grace did He do this?

 

[elf3]

God does not save anyone while they remain in their disobedience. Man must first repent of his disobedience/doing unrighteousness and start obeying God/doing righteousness then God saves.

1 Cor 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?"

The unrighteous are lost and remain that way until they repent of their unrighteousness and start doing God's righteousness/obey God's will.

1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...."

It is impossible to get the unrighteous saved (be of God) while they CONTINUE to not do righteousness.

Did we repent because of ourselves or because God reached out to us?

 

[SeaBass]

The difference is our faith (which you describe as a works) is not our own. Verse 8 our faith is a gift from God. It's not our work its God's work.

Men must choose to have faith, so in that since it is "your faith" 1 Cor 2:5; 1 Cor 15:14,17; among many more verses that speak of "your faith". Since man chooses to have faith, he can also choose to cast it away, 1 Tim 5:12; Heb 3:12.

God does not determine for man which men will have faith and which men will not have faith for that puts culpability and blame upon God for those that are faithless in God's failure to give them faith.

 

[SeaBass]

I believe I answered this already

You tried to get Jesus to be one's "Lord" BEFORE that one does what Christ says. The language of the verse does not allow for this.

 

[SeaBass]

1 John 3:10 does not say we are saved by our works. It says that's how you can tell the difference between the saved and unsaved.

1 Jn 3;10 "..... "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...."

The implication is one must DO RIGHTEOUSNESS to be of God.
This falls in harmony with Acts 10:35; Rom 6:16 and all the many verses that put obeying God's will BEFORE salvation.

So the way you can tell the difference between the saved and unsaved is by the WORKS one is doing. The saved are doing righteousness and the unsaved are doing unrighteousness.

 

[elf3]

If in fact as you say we reach out to God and we have our own faith and we can save ourselves then the death of Christ was in vain because we can do it ourselves.

Don't try and dance around this because this is exactly what you are implying.

 

[SeaBass]

Our eternal life is something received not something to be achieved

Jesus said to labour for it.

Who higher can I appeal to?

No labour = no eternal life.

Jesus ended this argument 2000+ years ago but man still fights it because some men think they know better than Christ about how man is to be saved.

 

[elf3]

If in fact as you say we reach out to God and we have our own faith and we can save ourselves then the death of Christ was in vain because we can do it ourselves.

Don't try and dance around this because this is exactly what you are implying.

You are dancing. Explain how you can justify this.

 

[SeaBass]

If in fact as you say we reach out to God and we have our own faith and we can save ourselves then the death of Christ was in vain because we can do it ourselves.

Don't try and dance around this because this is exactly what you are implying.

I never said man can save himself by himself.

Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that obey Him. So those men that choose to obey Christ are in that sense saving themselves by doing what Christ says. You can "lose yourself" by NOT obeying Christ.

In Acts 2:38 God commanded those people to repent and be baptized for remission of sins (salvation)

So in v40 Peter tells them to "save yourselves". How? By obeying that command. They would "lose themselves" by not obeying that command. God does not determine for man which one's will be saved or lost, God left that choice up to men so those that choose to obey are 'saving themselves' and those that choose not to obey causing themselves to be lost.

 

[SeaBass]

Most of the errors about works comes about because some refuse to understand that works do not always necessitates that one is automatically trying to earn something.

Below is a link of a thread I started with many biblical examples of those who did works but earned nothing, did not earn God's grace by those works but God's free grace conditionally required those works:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html

 

[dcontroversal]

Most of the errors about works comes about because some refuse to understand that works do not always necessitates that one is automatically trying to earn something.

Below is a link of a thread I started with many biblical examples of those who did works but earned nothing, did not earn God's grace by those works but God's free grace conditionally required those works:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html

Another Campbellite twist on the FREE GIFT of SALVATION.....you really should drop your Campbellite doctrine...pray and get right....a GIFT OF GOD IS EXACTLY THAT a GIFT.....just like YOUR breath, heart beat and your life is a GIFT that YOU cannot gain or get by your own works.....You can twist it for the next 50 years and two things will not change...

1. Where you will end up if you keep trusting Campbellite heresy
2. What the truth actually teaches