What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

[Apostol2013]

The Father being the source the Son that hallways has been but has never been revealed till He was beggotten , not created begotten as Jesus carries all the memories knowledge of the Father because they are one and have hallways been in the same way the Holy Spirit is the Same Spirit that proceedeth from the Father the very spirit of truth and the So. Conceived of the holy spirit therefore they are one to theglory of the Father not one does His own will but are One

 

[doseofreality]

On this question, please start at the bare basics. What is the Trinity because this so blasting confusing to me.

What is the Trinity?
What does the Bible teach about the trinity?

Catherine

Trinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Butch5]

On this question, please start at the bare basics. What is the Trinity because this so blasting confusing to me.

What is the Trinity?
What does the Bible teach about the trinity?
Catherine

Hi Catherine,

One of the reasons that it is so confusing is because what is taught in many places today as the Trinity is actually a condition. That is why many cannot understand it. The Bible teaches that there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. The confusion comes in when people claim that Jesus is God. The problem is that many confuse the two different uses of the word "God" in the Scriptures. The word literally means, deity or divinity. When the Bible speaks of Jesus as God it is that He is divine, He is deity, however, He is not the Father. There are differences between them. Jesus is God in the sense that He is divine, He was begotten of God therefore He is of the same essence or substance (fir lack of a better word) as God. A son is of the same essence as his father. They are both equally human, however, they have different traits and qualities. A human son ahs traits from both the father and the mother, however, Word (before the incarnation) had no mother but was begotten of the Father alone therefore He is the image of the unbegotten God.

The modern understanding of the Trinity, One God in three persons is usually understood this way, there is one God (being) and He is three persons. That is a contradiction. Being and person are interchangeable terms, What they're really saying God is one person in three persons, hence the confusion.

I hope this helps explain it some. There is a lot more that could be said. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Butch5]

Its a simple matter of reading scripture.

ALL the way through the OT, God destroyed the ones who failed to properly worship Him...and only allowed the remnant, who did worship Him correctly, to advance into the future.

You have to ask yourself what it was about the remnant that was different than ALL the others...

Where does Scripture say that God is triune? The OT says hear oh Israel the Lord our God is one.

 

[Bowman]

Where does Scripture say that God is triune? The OT says hear oh Israel the Lord our God is one.

That's the Shema, and it speaks of a uni-plural God...

 

[Butch5]

That's the Shema, and it speaks of a uni-plural God...

Can you elaborate please?

 

[ThomistColin]

Can you elaborate please?

In Hebrew it says that God is echad, meaning one in plurality. If I have a bunch of grapes, I would say I have an echad of grapes. They are all one bunch. Hebrew differentiates between a plural one and a singular one. The Hebrew word used in the Shema Israel is the plural one, echad. "Shema Israel, Adonai Eleheinu, Adonai Echad."

 

[Butch5]

In Hebrew it says that God is echad, meaning one in plurality. If I have a bunch of grapes, I would say I have an echad of grapes. They are all one bunch. Hebrew differentiates between a plural one and a singular one. The Hebrew word used in the Shema Israel is the plural one, echad. "Shema Israel, Adonai Eleheinu, Adonai Echad."

Thanks ThomistColin,

I appreciate your reply. I was actually, wanting to hear what Bowman had to say.

 

[Bowman]

Can you elaborate please?

Let’s define our terms first…


דשְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָהאֶחָד.

Shama’ Yisra’el Yahweh Elohim Yahweh Echad

Deu 6:4 Hear,[SUP]8085[/SUP] O Israel:[SUP]3478[/SUP] Yahweh[SUP]3068[/SUP] our God[SUP]430[/SUP] Yahweh[SUP]3068[/SUP] (is)one[SUP]259[/SUP]



יְהוָה= “Yahweh”

“Yahweh” definition:

H3068 Singular noun. The Tetragrammaton YHWH, the Lord, or Yahweh, the personal name of God and His most frequent designation in scripture, occurring 5321x. The word refers to the proper name of the God of Israel, particularly the name by which He revealed Himself to Moses (Ex: 6.2-3). It comes from the root “hawa” H1961, which means either existence, or development; “to be”. “The existing one”.

H1961 “hawa” A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

H1933 “havah” A primitive root supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.


References:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 1067 - 1081
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #484a, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 210 – 212
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 426








דשְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָהאֶחָד.


אֱלֹהֵינוּ= “Elohim”

“Elohim” definition:

H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a “Plural of Majesty”. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form “Elohim” occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

H433 “eloah” Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17












דשְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָהאֶחָד.



אֶחָד= “echad”

“echad” definition:

H259 Adjective. One, same, single, first, each, once. It is closely identified with
“yahad”, to be united and with “ro’sh”, first, head. It stresses unity while recognizing diversity within that oneness. A numerical adjective meaning one, first, once, the same. A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together. One (number), each, every, a certain, an (indefinite article), only, once, once for all, one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one, first, eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal).

H258 “achad” Verb. Perhaps a primitive root; to unify, that is, (figuratively) collect
(one’s thoughts): - go one way or other; be sharp, keen.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #61, #605, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, p. 30, 263
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 33
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 10

 

[Bowman]

Here is the message that the Classic Hebrew is conveying to us:

• Tetragrammaton = singular
• Elohim = Plural
• Echad = one unity
• The juxtaposed words…Tetragrammaton, Elohim, Tetragrammaton, Echad
• God is referred to not once, not twice, but three times
• Singular, Plural, Singular
• These three elements form one unity
• Singular = Plural
• Plural = Singular
• God = Gods
• God is clearly singular
• God is clearly plural
• God is Uniplural

Hence, it is little wonder why Jesus quoted and proclaimed this as most important…


Mar 12.29 - 30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is: "Hear, Israel. The Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul" and with all your mind, "and with all your strength." This is the first commandment. Deut. 6:4, 5

 

[dcontroversal]

While there are Scriptures that can link Yahweh and Yahshua being as one, three are no Scriptures that say there are 3 in 1 (trinity)

1 Yahchanan (John) 5:7-8 -

Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.

Hey Brother...do you understand Hebrew....

1. Singular
2. Dual<===Pairs, two
3. Plural<---Three or more

Go look up in Genesis when God breathed into Adam the breath of lives (plural)

I am ONE man

1. Mind (WILL) <---FATHER
2. BODY (flesh)<--Jesus
3. Spirit<-------Holy Spirit<---makes us alive

Man made in God's image!

 

[Butch5]

Here is the message that the Classic Hebrew is conveying to us:

• Tetragrammaton = singular
• Elohim = Plural
• Echad = one unity
• The juxtaposed words…Tetragrammaton, Elohim, Tetragrammaton, Echad
• God is referred to not once, not twice, but three times
• Singular, Plural, Singular
• These three elements form one unity
• Singular = Plural
• Plural = Singular
• God = Gods
• God is clearly singular
• God is clearly plural
• God is Uniplural

Hence, it is little wonder why Jesus quoted and proclaimed this as most important…


Mar 12.29 - 30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is: "Hear, Israel. The Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul" and with all your mind, "and with all your strength." This is the first commandment. Deut. 6:4, 5

I'll have to reply tomorrow. I do find it interesting that Paul seemed to think otherwise.

KJV 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. {in: or, for} (1Co 8:6 KJV)

Likewise Jesus said that they may know you the only true God.

 

[Bowman]

I'll have to reply tomorrow. I do find it interesting that Paul seemed to think otherwise.

KJV 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. {in: or, for} (1Co 8:6 KJV)

Likewise Jesus said that they may know you the only true God.

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

 

[Bowman]

Who are Israelites, whose are the adoption and the glory, and the covenants, and the Lawgiving, and the service, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to flesh, He being God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 9.4 – 5)

 

[Butch5]

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

The passage says we are in the one who is true, in "His" Son. The one who is true is the Father. Jesus said so,
KJV
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (Joh 17:3 KJV)

John's words almost parallel Jesus' statement, however, in both passages it is the Father that is the true God.

 

[Butch5]

Who are Israelites, whose are the adoption and the glory, and the covenants, and the Lawgiving, and the service, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to flesh, He being God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 9.4 – 5)

That's not what the text says.

 

[faroukfarouk]

That's not what the text says.

John 1.14 says that the glory of the Lord Jesus is 'as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth'. This is testimony to His Deity.

 

[Bowman]

The passage says we are in the one who is true, in "His" Son. The one who is true is the Father. Jesus said so,
KJV
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (Joh 17:3 KJV)

John's words almost parallel Jesus' statement, however, in both passages it is the Father that is the true God.

Of the seventy times in which the demonstrative pronoun ουτος has a personal referent in the Gospel of John and his Epistles, the Father is never the referent! This fact, along with proximity, significantly increases the likelihood that Jesus Christ is the antecedent in the case of 1 John 5.20, as thus…


οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkeikaidedōkenhēmindianoianhinaginōskōmentonalēthinonkaiesmenentō huiō autouIēsouChristō houtosestinhoalēthinostheoskaizōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)





Regarding John 17.3, if you were familiar with Greek, then you would already be cognizant that there are absolutely no grammatical reasons at all for denying that αληθινον θεονrefers to Jesus Christ.

This can be deduced from a study of the article with multiple substantives connected via kai.


αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον

hautē de estin hē aiōnios zōē hina ginōskōsin se ton monon alēthinon theon kai hon apesteilas Iēsoun christon

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. (John 17.3)

 

[Bowman]

That's not what the text says.

Yes, it does.

Pretty clearly as a matter of fact...

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, it does.

Pretty clearly as a matter of fact...

The glorious truth of God in Three Persons is not just an optional extra in Scripture, but fundamental to it.