What does the Law REALLY say?

[Elin]

While out on an errand I realized one part of my earlier post may be misconstrued due to my own ambiguity, but I assure all, I believe the same as always. Of course
the laws of punishment and death are replaced by mercy, but commandments on decent behavior and righteousness are not. I can see how my wording could have been misconstrued, but not by any who already are aware of my stance on obedience under grace.

I would say
the laws of punishment and death were fulfilled by the sacrifice of the Christ because of the love of God to mankind.
The laws of punishment and death is still valid against those who do not believe in the Son. They
also still valid against those who deliberating keep on sinning

And still apply to criminals.

The laws of punishment and death have not been replaced,
rather their terms have been enforced.

 

[chubbena]

so, I'm pondering this situation here... from my past experience, talking with believers who also want to obey the law, my impression was that they make great effort at following some parts of the law... minor effort at others... doesn't James say in acts that there are believers who are zealous for the law? is the spirit leading people today to be zealous for all parts of the law they can possibly keep, and build vibrant Christian communities that follow that path? if so, I haven't heard of them... i'd be interested if anyone has info...

First of all, the gift is trashed when one deliberately keeps on sinning wasn't my comment. It's from Hebrews 10:26-27.
Regarding zealous for the law, are you referring to Paul?
Zealous for the law without understanding or without knowing the Lord would most likely lead to errs - witnessed by Paul's own experience cf Acts 21-24.
But let's hear what he has to say after coming to Christ in Acts 24:14-16 I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

He believed in Christ and yet he believed in everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets and why not? After all the Christ is the Word of God who spoke through Moses and the prophets.

Any Christ who spoke against the Word of God is no Christ. My faith is with this principle in mind and the trust that every word from God is good.

So let me hear what yours is

 

[Elin]

We are indeed saved through the Law in the sense that one could not be punished beyond what's deserved and that the wage of sin is death and death penalty it is on the Son of God who bore the sin of the world so whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
The Law defines the Creator's character which is righteous and love.

We are saved through faith only (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[Elin]

If only one realizes
Paul believes everything that agrees with the law and that is written in the Prophets perhaps he would not pull verses out of his letters to speak against the truth.

1) You fail to distinguish between Saul and Paul.
2) You fail to distinguish between Saul under the old covenant, and Paul under the new covenant.
3) You fail to realize that the law of Moses is subordinate to the law of grace,
for we are saved by grace, not by law keeping.

 

[dcontroversal]

We are saved through faith only (Eph 2:8-9).

Amen and no doubt...it is morning and I have not been up long, yet I seem to remember a statement about IF IT WERE POSSIBLE a law would have been written, but it was not possible because the law cannot save because it is by the law that the knowledge of SIN came and not salvation????

I need a cup of coffee HAHAHHH!

 

[Elin]

The Promise Realized Through Faith
13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring---not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"---in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.18 In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, "So shall your offspring be."19 He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb.20 No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification. romans 4.

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. gal 3

yes or no answer.
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all

The promises is guaranteed to all who believe.

Only when one misses Hebrews 10:26-29 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace.

Setting the Scriptures against themselves demonstrates misunderstanding of them.

The writer of Hebrews is dealing with unbelief in Heb 10:26-29.

The promise is guaranteed to all who believe.

 

[Elin]

The gift is trashed when one deliberately keeps on sinning.

Habitual sin manifests counterfeit faith (Mt 7:21-23), which does not save,
because it was never true faith in the first place.

 

[Elin]

This teaching is from the Word, and it is a hard lesson. Most people fear this lesson very much causign them to prefer to hide their heads in the sand.

I have good news for all, yes, we do sin after we are saved by the Blood of the Lamb, however any who feel remorse are suffering as did Paul who though he was alive because of Jesus Christ, he yet did the very thing he hated.

You have remorse it is the Holy Spirit conviciting you, and you repent because of this remorse. The lesson is for any and all who yield to evil and sin after knowing Jesus Christ is Salvation.

No one need hide behind mercy, for you have mercy in your faith because of Jesus Christ, but
do not think or teach others that any who sin as a way of life as a believer are going to be free of the wrath of God,

Red herring. . .

 

[Elin]

All who are saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God
are worhippers in the faith of Abraham,

They are worshippers in the gift of faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:3) from God,
as both Abraham's faith and righteousness (Ro 5:17) were a gift from God.

 

[Alligator]

We are indeed saved through the Law in the sense that one could not be punished beyond what's deserved and that the wage of sin is death and death penalty it is on the Son of God who bore the sin of the world so whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
The Law defines the Creator's character which is righteous and love.

We are saved through faith only (Eph 2:8-9).

[h=1]James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)[/h]24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[Elin]

Interesting you call the Feast days part of the Old Covenant Law of Moses...

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Who is speaking here? The One who became Jesus Christ.

Who's Feasts are they? The Feasts of the LORD, the One who became Jesus Christ.

Scripture does not state the LORD is Christ.

In the NT, Christ is Lord.

That is you own notion to support your false theology.

 

[Elin]

The ONLY DAYS mentioned in the New Testament are the Feast Days!
Now show men xmas and Ishtar in the New Testament.

Inane.

What is this supposed to demonstrate?

 

[Elin]

James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)

24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Deal with the context.

 

[Alligator]

Deal with the context.

I did...............

 

[dcontroversal]

James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)

24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Paul stated clearly a man is justified before GOD by faith...
James clearly states that a man's faith is seen before MEN by his works...

Why is it so hard for you to grasp this simple truth.....maybe because you believe in works instead of faith.....So how is it going Gecko......been a while HAH!

 

[Alligator]

James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)

24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Paul stated clearly a man is justified before GOD by faith...
James clearly states that a man's faith is seen before MEN by his works...

Why is it so hard for you to grasp this simple truth.....maybe because you believe in works instead of faith.....So how is it going Gecko......been a while HAH!

Why is it so hard for you to believe what this simple scripture says? WE ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE.

Im doing ok, thanks, I'm coming to realize this site is not good for,your health, lol.

 

[Elin]

Why is it so hard for you to believe what this simple scripture says? WE ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE.

My guess is for the same reason it is so hard for you not to set the Scriptures against themselves.

 

[JesusIsAll]

If you want a hoot, go to the should we keep the feasts thread. The Jew-lites are at each others' throats over the order of the feasts, even how many feasts there are, all these experts in holiness Paul got wrong having difficulty getting a grip on the subset of the law that impresses God. I think I now know why I never received an answer to the question from the Judaizers exactly what it is they do that's holier than the rest of us.

 

[KohenMatt]

JUSTICE – Part 1 of 5

273 Leviticus 19:15 - A Judge is not to commit unrighteousness.
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.


274 Exodus 23:8 - A Judge is not to accept bribes / gifts from litigants.
And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.


275 Leviticus 19:15 - A Judge is not to favor (be partial to) a litigant.
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.


276 Deuteronomy 1:17 - Judge not avoid justice being in fear of wicked person.
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.


277 Leviticus 19:15 - A Judge not to decide in favor of poor man, out of pity.
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.


278 Exodus 23:6 - A Judge is not to discriminate against the poor.
Thou shalt not wrest the judgment of thy poor in his cause.


279 Deuteronomy 19:13 - Judge not to pity one who killed or caused loss of limb.
Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.


280 Deuteronomy 24:17 - A Judge not perverting justice due strangers or orphans.
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:


281 Exodus 23:1 - Judge not to hear one litigant in absence of the other.
Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.


282 Exodus 23:2 - Court may not convict by majority of one in capital case.
Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:


283 Exodus 23:2 - Judge accept not colleague's opinion, unless sure right.
Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:


284 Deuteronomy 1:17 - Not appointing an unlearned judge ignorant of the Torah.
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.


285 Exodus 20:16 - Not bearing false witness.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

 

[john832]

Scripture does not state the LORD is Christ.

In the NT, Christ is Lord.

That is you own notion to support your false theology.

Well let's just see who the LORD was...

First of all, who was the Creator?

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Now in John 1, who was the Word?

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The One who became Jesus Christ.

So the One who made ALL things also created a man...

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here He is known as the LORD God. Now who talked to Adam and Eve?

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

God told them not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now notice He talked to them directly...

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Whom did they hear?

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

No one has EVER seen God the Father at anytime.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

No one has EVER heard the Father or seen His shape.

Here is what Christ said...

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Who was I AM?

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The LORD God was I AM.

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Moses saw Someone's form, but according to John 5:37, it was not the Father. Someone also talked mouth to mouth with Moses...

Num 12:7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
Num 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

But John 5:37 says no one has ever heard the voice of the Father. Who was this?

Why it was the Word, the One who became Jesus Christ. One more scripture...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

It was Jesus Christ who was the Pillar of Cloud and the Pillar of Fire.

Now what was it you said...

Scripture does not state the LORD is Christ.

In the NT, Christ is Lord.

That is you own notion to support your false theology.

The one with the false theology is the one who does not know who the LORD, I AM, is. I believe the evidence all points to YOU!