What does the Law REALLY say?

[chubbena]

We are saved through faith only (Eph 2:8-9).

I knew what I said would be pulled out of context.

 

[Alligator]

Why is it so hard for you to believe what this simple scripture says? WE ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE.

Im doing ok, thanks, I'm coming to realize this site is not good for,your health, lol.

My guess is for the same reason it is so hard for you not to set the Scriptures against themselves.

I take into account all scriptures dealing with the subject, that is not setting the scriptures against themselves.

 

[chubbena]

1) You fail to distinguish between Saul and Paul.
2) You fail to distinguish between Saul under the old covenant, and Paul under the new covenant.
3) You fail to realize that the law of Moses is subordinate to the law of grace,
for we are saved by grace, not by law keeping.

Only when one fails to understand what Paul said: "However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

 

[chubbena]

The promises is guaranteed to all who believe.


Setting the Scriptures against themselves demonstrates misunderstanding of them.

The writer of Hebrews is dealing with unbelief in Heb 10:26-29.

The promise is guaranteed to all who believe.

The accuser believes and this is his favorite line: "Does God really say...?" and some always gladly answer: "No He does not mean this or that...follow me, not the Word of God."

 

[chubbena]

Well let's just see who the LORD was...

First of all, who was the Creator?

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Now in John 1, who was the Word?

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The One who became Jesus Christ.

So the One who made ALL things also created a man...

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here He is known as the LORD God. Now who talked to Adam and Eve?

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

God told them not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now notice He talked to them directly...

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Whom did they hear?

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

No one has EVER seen God the Father at anytime.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

No one has EVER heard the Father or seen His shape.

Here is what Christ said...

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Who was I AM?

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The LORD God was I AM.

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Moses saw Someone's form, but according to John 5:37, it was not the Father. Someone also talked mouth to mouth with Moses...

Num 12:7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
Num 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

But John 5:37 says no one has ever heard the voice of the Father. Who was this?

Why it was the Word, the One who became Jesus Christ. One more scripture...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

It was Jesus Christ who was the Pillar of Cloud and the Pillar of Fire.

Now what was it you said...




The one with the false theology is the one who does not know who the LORD, I AM, is. I believe the evidence all points to YOU!

Last but not least in John 5:46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

Well, it is impossible for one who rejects the Word of God spoken through and recorded by Moses to accept this fact.

 

[chubbena]

284 Deuteronomy 1:17 - Not appointing an unlearned judge ignorant of the Torah.
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

How does one relate Deuteronomy 1:17 with "not appointing an unlearned judge ignorant of the Torah"?

 

[Elin]

The accuser believes and this is his favorite line:
"Does God really say...?" and some always gladly answer:
"No He does not mean this or that...follow me, not the Word of God."

Heb 10:26-29 means exactly what it states.

You fail to understand that it was addressed to Hebrew Christians who were considering a return to Judaism because of the ostracization and persecution of their families and friends.

The writer of Hebrews is warning them of the consequences of rejecting Christ for Judaism,
that in so doing they are rejecting the sacrifice of Christ, crucifying the Son of God all over again
as the other Jews had done, and they would die in their sin, because they would be rejecting
the only sacrifice for sin.

The whole book of Hebrews is to deal with this single issue.

 

[Elin]

Well let's just see who the LORD was...

First of all, who was the Creator?

Yes, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God.

But that does not make the person of the Father (LORD) to be the person of the Son (Lord; Word),
nor the person of the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning, at creation, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But the Son, the Word, is not the Father.

The NT presents three separate and individual personal divine agents in one God.

You are confusing the one God with the multiple persons in the one God,

mistaking the statements which show Jesus is God (Jn 8:58; Col 1:16)

to be statements showing that Jesus is also the person of the Father (Ge 3:3, 13).

Your misunderstanding of the NT triune God is showing.

 

[Elin]

We are saved through faith only (Eph 2:8-9).

I knew what I said would be pulled out of context.

Then show were Scripture states we are saved through the Law.

And if Scripture does not say it, then neither should you.

You handle the word of God too loosely.

 

[Elin]

Why is it so hard for you to believe what this simple scripture says?
WE ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE

My guess is for the same reason it is so hard for you not to set the Scriptures against themselves.

I take into account all scriptures dealing with the subject, that is not setting the scriptures against themselves.

You didn't do that in the above.

 

[Elin]

1) You fail to distinguish between Saul and Paul.
2) You fail to distinguish between Saul under the old covenant, and Paul under the new covenant.
3) You fail to realize that the law of Moses is subordinate to the law of grace,
for we are saved by grace, not by law keeping.

Only when one fails to understand what Paul said: "However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

That isn't everything he said on the subject.

Keeping in mind that he established the law on its right basis, subordinate to the law of grace.

 

[Dan_473]

First of all, the gift is trashed when one deliberately keeps on sinning wasn't my comment. It's from Hebrews 10:26-27.
Regarding zealous for the law, are you referring to Paul?
Zealous for the law without understanding or without knowing the Lord would most likely lead to errs - witnessed by Paul's own experience cf Acts 21-24.
But let's hear what he has to say after coming to Christ in Acts 24:14-16 I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

He believed in Christ and yet he believed in everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets and why not? After all the Christ is the Word of God who spoke through Moses and the prophets.

Any Christ who spoke against the Word of God is no Christ. My faith is with this principle in mind and the trust that every word from God is good.

So let me hear what yours is

"First of all, the gift is trashed when one deliberately keeps on sinning wasn't my comment. It's from Hebrews 10:26-27."
well, I like the quote... if it's from the bible, that's even better...

"My faith is with this principle in mind and the trust that every word from God is good.

So let me hear what yours is"...Sure thing... I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead...

I found the place where I think James is talking about zeal...
acts 21:18*And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19*And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20*And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

so, what I'm interested in is if there are people today like the thousands back then, with lots of zeal for the law... or was that a unique situation?

 

[john832]

Yes, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God.

But that does not make the person of the Father (LORD) to be the person of the Son (Lord; Word),
nor the person of the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning, at creation, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But the Son, the Word, is not the Father.

The NT presents three separate and individual personal divine agents in one God.

You are confusing the one God with the multiple persons in the one God,

mistaking the statements which show Jesus is God (Jn 8:58; Col 1:16)

to be statements showing that Jesus is also the person of the Father (Ge 3:3, 13).

Your misunderstanding of the NT triune God is showing.

If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with **edited**.

The scripture plainly shows the One who was the LORD and the I AM of the Old Testament became Jesus Christ.

but I do have to say, nice attempt at a misdirect.

 

[chubbena]

Heb 10:26-29 means exactly what it states.

You fail to understand that it was addressed to Hebrew Christians who were considering a return to Judaism because of the ostracization and persecution of their families and friends.

The writer of Hebrews is warning them of the consequences of rejecting Christ for Judaism,
that in so doing they are rejecting the sacrifice of Christ, crucifying the Son of God all over again
as the other Jews had done, and they would die in their sin, because they would be rejecting
the only sacrifice for sin.

The whole book of Hebrews is to deal with this single issue.

What does this post have to do with "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left"?

 

[Elin]

Yes, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God.

But that does not make the person of the Father (LORD) to be the person of the Son (Lord; Word),
nor the person of the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning, at creation, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But the Son, the Word, is not the Father.

The NT presents three separate and individual personal divine agents in one God.

You are confusing the one God with the multiple persons in the one God,

mistaking the statements which show Jesus is God (Jn 8:58; Col 1:16)

to be statements showing that Jesus is also the person of the Father (Ge 3:3, 13).

Your misunderstanding of the NT triune God is showing.

The scripture plainly shows
the One who was the LORD and the I AM of the Old Testament became Jesus Christ.

Wrong. . .the Scriptures do not show that the Father became the Son.

 

[Elin]

Heb 10:26-29 means exactly what it states.

You fail to understand that it was addressed to Hebrew Christians who were considering a return to Judaism because of the ostracization and persecution of their families and friends.

The writer of Hebrews is warning them of the consequences of rejecting Christ for Judaism,
that in so doing they are rejecting the sacrifice of Christ, crucifying the Son of God all over again
as the other Jews had done, and
they would die in their sin, because they would be rejecting the only sacrifice for sin.

The whole book of Hebrews is to deal with this single issue.

What does this post have to do with "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,
no sacrifice for sins is left"?

Both are Heb 10:26-29.

 

[john832]

Wrong. . .the Scriptures do not show that the Father became the Son.

And no one ever said they did.

The Word became the Son, and if you read what I posted, you will find that is what is said.

You are under the mistaken idea that Christ came to do away with what the Father did in the Old Testament. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus Christ was the LORD of the Old Testament.

And again, nice misdirect.

 

[chubbena]

"First of all, the gift is trashed when one deliberately keeps on sinning wasn't my comment. It's from Hebrews 10:26-27."
well, I like the quote... if it's from the bible, that's even better...

"My faith is with this principle in mind and the trust that every word from God is good.

So let me hear what yours is"...Sure thing... I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead...

Me too. And I believe He is the Word of God. But somehow some want part of Him dead.

I found the place where I think James is talking about zeal...
acts 21:18*And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19*And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20*And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

so, what I'm interested in is if there are people today like the thousands back then, with lots of zeal for the law... or was that a unique situation?

I don't see James speaking against being zealous of the law but rather being zealous in the wrong places. The decision in the council did not in anyway suggest the law was done away with. After all, to abstain from blood is not something new but from the Word spoken through and recorded by Moses.
It's a unique situation here and everywhere at this point in time that many are against the law the way they do.
The word of the LORD in the OT is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it.

 

[Elin]

And no one ever said they did.

The Word became the Son, and if you read what I posted, you will find that is what is said.

You are under the mistaken idea that Christ came to do away with what the Father did in the Old Testament.

You are under the mistaken idea that I am under that mistaken idea.

 

[JaumeJ]

The following is from "the Scriptures," and it seems to me the Child in the prophesy is our Lord, Jesus Christ, and one of His names is "Everlasting Father." The Scriptures are indeed saying something here.



Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Isa 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to