What does this mean to you?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,499
3,163
113
#81
Simple.... the Law was fulfilled by Christ.
Done deal.
The prophets aren't the law, some of theirs still needs to be fulfilled.
You're skipping over the "till heaven and earth pass" part.

There is a reason that is there.

Galatians 3:23-25 gives you that reason.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,658
2,877
113
#82
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

How do you reconcile those verses in Hebrews with this one in Matthew?

“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them,

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,658
2,877
113
#83
You're skipping over the "till heaven and earth pass" part.

There is a reason that is there.

Galatians 3:23-25 gives you that reason.
your missing what he’s saying not one jot will change until all is fulfilled that’s written of Christ in the prophets

that’s what the gospel is the fulfilling of the ot
 

montana123

Active member
Oct 9, 2021
316
109
43
#84
To be consistent with the Bible that should be "a sinless Man who is also God" and "to receive salvation" should be "to offer salvation". Perhaps that is what you meant, but words have significance. Had Jesus not been both sinless Man and God, He could not offer salvation to all through His finished work of redemption. There are many who deny that He is God, but fail to see how someone who is not God could become the Savior of the world.
Jesus is God and man for there is no way He could be a sinless man unless He is God manifest in the flesh.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,406
2,076
113
#85
That Jesus did for us what we could not do for ourselves. He never sinned He fulfilled the requirements of the law in our place and took our punishment.

Does that mean the law is null and void. No, we are still instructed over and over to obey, but our only hope is having the Holy Spirit living in us to help us, however, when we fail Jesus has already paid the price for that failure and we are also instructed to confess our sins and He will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God's law is the rules of His government and they will stand though out eternity but no one will ever sin again in the earth made new because we already know the horrible consequences of such a thing and praise God sin will never rise again.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
10,769
3,493
113
#86
I have come to fulfill the law not destroy it......Jesus
The one thing biblically it means to me is Jesus fulfilled the payment for breaking the law once and for all. And those who continue to break it have the opportunity to not suffer eternal judgment because of the punishment of the law.

Therefore the LAW will not be broken or destroyed. Payment must be received for it by that of Christ or you in judgment.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,499
3,163
113
#87
your missing what he’s saying not one jot will change until all is fulfilled that’s written of Christ in the prophets

that’s what the gospel is the fulfilling of the ot
Not one jot or one tittle of the Law will change until all is fulfilled that's written of Christ in the Prophets???

That is also incorrect. But also NOT what that verse is saying.


Christ has fulfilled ALL of the Law. But the Law has not brought everyone to Christ that God is drawing. So, until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall fall from the Law until it has brought everyone that God is drawing, or will draw, to Christ.


I know you already understand this. I could tell by the parts of scripture you were highlighting.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,658
2,877
113
#88
That Jesus did for us what we could not do for ourselves. He never sinned He fulfilled the requirements of the law in our place and took our punishment.

Does that mean the law is null and void. No, we are still instructed over and over to obey, but our only hope is having the Holy Spirit living in us to help us, however, when we fail Jesus has already paid the price for that failure and we are also instructed to confess our sins and He will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God's law is the rules of His government and they will stand though out eternity but no one will ever sin again in the earth made new because we already know the horrible consequences of such a thing and praise God sin will never rise again.
“That Jesus did for us what we could not do for ourselves. He never sinned He fulfilled the requirements of the law in our place and took our punishment.”

The law declares sin and that to sin is to be sentenced to death like this

this is sin Thou shalt not ….

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this is the laws requirement for that sinner

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10


Because all have sinned all mankind is under this sentance

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this has been Gods word from the start “ “Thou shalt not lest ye surely die “ man has all been determined sinners now by the law

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

Jesus took the adulterers place , the liars place , the cheaters place , the thief’s place in death because the law says tons who sins must die even one sin

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I live by the law one sin one lie means I’ve done what a murderer has done in that I’ve sinned and now my soul is sentenced to death by Gods original word expounded by the law

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But now we all have and so we’re sentenced to death Jesus fuflilled this word of death in his own death he actually didn’t keep the law of Moses he taught a contrary law
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,658
2,877
113
#89
Not one jot or one tittle of the Law will change until all is fulfilled that's written of Christ in the Prophets???

That is also incorrect. But also NOT what that verse is saying.


Christ has fulfilled ALL of the Law. But the Law has not brought everyone to Christ that God is drawing. So, until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall fall from the Law until it has brought everyone that God is drawing, or will draw, to Christ.


I know you already understand this. I could tell by the parts of scripture you were highlighting.
how is it not what he’s saying ?

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s saying first I haven’t come to destroy the law and prophets I have come to fulfill them. Then he says Not a single word can change until all is fulfilled

later he’s explaining to them opening up thier understanding of the ot scriptures and what they are about . After he’s raised from the dead he recalls what he said and further explains

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, ( in the law and prophets ) and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a reason he doesn’t send the law of Moses out to the world he fulfilled what it said was coming to pass in the messiah and spoke the new covenant as Moses said he would in the law. He suffered and died for our sins like Isaiah said he would , he received the spirit and pronounced Gods everlasting word of the new covenant like the law and prophets said he would he died on the cross and rose from the grave like David’s psalms said he would

he entered heaven and is at Gods right hand interceding for us now and forever like the prophets all foretold he was explaining what he’s said to them Beforehand

the law was meant to be fulfilled by the messiah along with the prophets they are a prophecy of Christ and the gospel

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

They led the world to Jesus and the gospel now Jesus sent out his disciples preach his eternal covenant word of promise and instruction to believers for salvation

it’s the gospel that’s our” law “

Jesus fuflilled Moses words they were about him when understood all the scriptures are meant to lead a believer to Jesus and the gospel the law and prophets and psalms are all the same witnesses of Jesus as those after whether Moses

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40, 46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One reference is this one

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/act.3.22-26.KJV


or the rest of the prophets which spoke of Jesus he fulfilled the ot it was why he came when I say fulfilled its e thkngs god had said would happen later like Jesus bekng born of a virgin , being baptized and receiving the spirit tomoresch the word of the gospel , his miracles his suffering and death , his resurrection and ascention to the throne

it’s only the things God foretold that we’re to be fulfilled “ one day this shall happen “ all those things

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus point is I’m the Christ , I came to fulfill all of the promises God has made of the messiah through “the law and prophets “ until I come and fulfill what’s said of me nothing can change

the gospel is in detail in the ot but it’s bekng foretold the fospem in scripture is the fulfilling of those promises of Jesus. His coming life ministry , death , resurrection and ascention to the throne of God fulfilled the law and prophets and set the New Testament in order according tonjesus covenant that he spoke


“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12-13, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The ot law of Moses is like this

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is like this

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭

it’s a whole new thing because he fulfilled the old. The law of Moses is not our law
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
5,474
1,541
113
#90
it’s a whole new thing because he fulfilled the old. The law of Moses is not our law

Then what is our law?
If God is a never changing God then do we have another law?
Christanity is adoption into judiasm not by circumcision but by the promise of a new heart. Which GOD will write his law upon. This promise was made in the old testament in Gods order...first to the jews then to the gentiles.
God never wanted the jew and gentile to be seperate all our one in CHRIST.
The jews are the physical we are the spiritual.
They are promised redemption we are promised salvation both from and by the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
5,474
1,541
113
#91
The purpose of this thread was to show somthjng hidden in the scriptures that were shown to me by the Holy Spirit.
I think we can be all on the same page to say what a blessing it must of been to witness jesus as he walked this earth.
The blessings of the Lord are one side of his law......but theres another.
The book of revelation reveal the cursings of the law. By this same Jesus.
Although it is never taught this way or at least i never heard of it being taught this way this has to be fulfilled in order to fulfill the whole law.
This time of grace does end at GODs appointed time. I think we all should examine ourselves like paul said and see if we are worthy to escape the wrath which is to come.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,406
2,076
113
#93
“That Jesus did for us what we could not do for ourselves. He never sinned He fulfilled the requirements of the law in our place and took our punishment.”

The law declares sin and that to sin is to be sentenced to death like this

this is sin Thou shalt not ….

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this is the laws requirement for that sinner

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10


Because all have sinned all mankind is under this sentance

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this has been Gods word from the start “ “Thou shalt not lest ye surely die “ man has all been determined sinners now by the law

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

Jesus took the adulterers place , the liars place , the cheaters place , the thief’s place in death because the law says tons who sins must die even one sin

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I live by the law one sin one lie means I’ve done what a murderer has done in that I’ve sinned and now my soul is sentenced to death by Gods original word expounded by the law

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But now we all have and so we’re sentenced to death Jesus fuflilled this word of death in his own death he actually didn’t keep the law of Moses he taught a contrary law
I don't understand the point you are trying to get across to me this post is confusing you would have to explain why you gave this response to me for me to get it.
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,728
1,427
113
46
#94
Here's how I understand Jesus' words in Matthew regarding the Law:

He said that he did not come to destroy but to fulfill "the Law and the Prophets".

We must remember that the Law and Prophets were part of the Tanakh (Jewish Scriptures which we now call the Old Testament). The other part of the Tanakh was called the "Writings".

Also, the foundation for the Mosaic Law was God's law for all of humanity. He judged people for their sins from the time of Adam & Eve until the time of Moses, even though obviously the Mosaic Law came from God through Moses. The ML was God's way of separating Israel from the other nations.

The Gospel of Matthew was written primarily to/for a Jewish audience, and Jesus spoke to a primarily Jewish audience. He wanted to assure them that He did not come to "do away" with the Tanakh, but to fulfill it. Which He did.

The Mosaic Law was not and is not intended for Gentiles, but it contains moral laws and principles that all humanity must follow. Remember what I said above about God's moral law being the foundation on which the Mosaic law was based.

The Apostle Paul also makes this point in Romans 2 when he said that those who sin without law shall perish without law, and that those who are under the law shall be judged by the law. He also said that Gentiles are a "law to themselves" when they by nature do what the Law requires, even though God didn't give it to them. Because they are obeying the moral aspects of the Law, which God requires of everyone.

Those who are in Christ rely on His righteousness. Not only did He fulfill the "Law and Prophets", He also obeyed the law as a whole, because He is God. I'm not saying that God is obligated to any law, as He is the ultimate Lawgiver. Rather, everything He does is perfect and right 100% of the time. He never misses the mark at all.