What does this mean to you?

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Harley_Angel

Guest
#1
John 17:20-23

My pryaers is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, THAT ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE, Father, JUST AS YOU ARE IN ME AND I AM IN YOU. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they MAY BE ONE AS WE ARE ONE: I in them and you in me. MAY THEY BE BROUGHT TO COMPLETE UNITY to let the world know that you sent me and loved them even as you have loved me.

With all the bickering, and stone-casting, and cries of heresy, lies, and deception I read on here, I wonder what these verses mean to you all. Jesus wants us to be a united in Him. He wants us to stand together and love one another like God is in Jesus and Jesus is in us so that we can show the world. How are we showing the world that we are united in Christ when all we do is bicker and fight and try to prove each other wrong instead of uplift, guide, and teach? How often have you corrected someone, not out of concern for their eternal soul, or out of love for them, or out of glory to God, but simply because you think they are wrong and you want them to believe what you believe?

How are we, as Christians, going to do this? We've got Catholics standing here, Baptists over there, Pentecostals on that side, Presbyterians over there. What does the world see? They see a bunch of people who all have the same instructions, the same message, the same job in this world and yet are divided over some of the silliest things imaginable. All the bickering over whether God is one being or three, or if infants should be baptized, or if sabbath is a sunday or a saturday, we sound like a bunch of pharisee's and are completely forgetting what God wanted us to do. He wants us to love one another as Christ loved us, and to stand united as God is united with Jesus.

That's what that means to me, I'm very interested to see what others have to say.

(and yes, my verses were taken out of the horribly wicked NIV given to my husband by a priest on our wedding day)
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
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#2
I sometimes compare all to the ocean. Our Lord God is the ocean and we are all the drops of water that make it. Alone we are just a drop, but within the ocean we, with the Lord are the most powerful force on earth. Without him we are just drips. God bless, pickles
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#3
John 17:20-23

My pryaers is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, THAT ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE, Father, JUST AS YOU ARE IN ME AND I AM IN YOU. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they MAY BE ONE AS WE ARE ONE: I in them and you in me. MAY THEY BE BROUGHT TO COMPLETE UNITY to let the world know that you sent me and loved them even as you have loved me.

With all the bickering, and stone-casting, and cries of heresy, lies, and deception I read on here, I wonder what these verses mean to you all. Jesus wants us to be a united in Him. He wants us to stand together and love one another like God is in Jesus and Jesus is in us so that we can show the world. How are we showing the world that we are united in Christ when all we do is bicker and fight and try to prove each other wrong instead of uplift, guide, and teach? How often have you corrected someone, not out of concern for their eternal soul, or out of love for them, or out of glory to God, but simply because you think they are wrong and you want them to believe what you believe?

How are we, as Christians, going to do this? We've got Catholics standing here, Baptists over there, Pentecostals on that side, Presbyterians over there. What does the world see? They see a bunch of people who all have the same instructions, the same message, the same job in this world and yet are divided over some of the silliest things imaginable. All the bickering over whether God is one being or three, or if infants should be baptized, or if sabbath is a sunday or a saturday, we sound like a bunch of pharisee's and are completely forgetting what God wanted us to do. He wants us to love one another as Christ loved us, and to stand united as God is united with Jesus.

That's what that means to me, I'm very interested to see what others have to say.

(and yes, my verses were taken out of the horribly wicked NIV given to my husband by a priest on our wedding day)
The answer to that is that Jesus' prayer was answered and it was done, so any division is also by the decree of Christ; "I do not come to bring peace, but the sword of division", the body of Christ is one, there is no doubt about that, just becuase somebody calls themselves 'christian' does not mean they are a Christian, I mean Barak Obama calls himself 'christian', George Bush calls himself 'christian', are they? No they are liars...Many churches and institutions use the name of Christianity, does not mean they are, they are just decievers, liars...There is no division in the body of Christ, in the true Christian life there is no division, and there are no enemies in the body of Christ. Basically the reason why you see division is because there is, it is divided between those God recognizes as His, and those He does not, but many will say on that day that they called him Lord, does not mean He accepts them as His sheep.
 
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Harley_Angel

Guest
#4
When he said he brought the sword of division, I think he meant to divide the sheep from the goats. I don't think Jesus meant he wanted his followers divided. We all have the same savior, the same Word, the same Holy Spirit inside of us, and the same job in this world, yet instead of it bringing us together, we've let Satan divide us because often times we let our pride get in the way of our love. Instead of building on the things we have in common, we've built on the things we hold differently and stick our noses up at the other churches. Think of how strong we could be, what kind of power and image we could give Christianity if we stood together instead of shutting our doors, pointing our fingers, and arguing with one another! How nice would it be, when someone asks what your religion is, to be able to say Christian, and let that be that instead of having to further explain that you are Anglican, or Episcopalian, or Lutheran, or Baptist, or Southern Baptist, or Pentecostal, or Catholic, or Roman Catholic, or whatever on and on and on? We certaintly don't act like we are one body in Christ. We act like some of us are the leg, the other the arm, some are the torso, this denomination is the lungs. What if we could become one family? What would that look like to non believers as opposed to what they see now?
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#5
When he said he brought the sword of division, I think he meant to divide the sheep from the goats. I don't think Jesus meant he wanted his followers divided. We all have the same savior, the same Word, the same Holy Spirit inside of us, and the same job in this world, yet instead of it bringing us together, we've let Satan divide us because often times we let our pride get in the way of our love. Instead of building on the things we have in common, we've built on the things we hold differently and stick our noses up at the other churches. Think of how strong we could be, what kind of power and image we could give Christianity if we stood together instead of shutting our doors, pointing our fingers, and arguing with one another! How nice would it be, when someone asks what your religion is, to be able to say Christian, and let that be that instead of having to further explain that you are Anglican, or Episcopalian, or Lutheran, or Baptist, or Southern Baptist, or Pentecostal, or Catholic, or Roman Catholic, or whatever on and on and on? We certaintly don't act like we are one body in Christ. We act like some of us are the leg, the other the arm, some are the torso, this denomination is the lungs. What if we could become one family? What would that look like to non believers as opposed to what they see now?
Christianity is falling apart and has been in this degrading process for possibly well over a 150 years, more most likely, we don't have Christendom, as I said there is no division in the body of Christ, so clearly what calls itself 'christianity' today and for a long time is really apostate and I don't think God considers it much as His. Christianity has fallen away, it is losing control and power and influence - 'thy will be done on earth as it is in hevean', you know there was a time long before we were born when men believed that, today most of laws are secular, the chruch is a token gesture that pay lip service to God while worshipping the secular state - Atheism and Satanism and every immature doctrine of devils reigns supreme both in what calls itself 'christian' and without. There is no uinity, neither is there going to be, most of what passes for christian today God would simply spit out of His mouth.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#6
I agree the true remnant do stand together, all others are not truly Christians..
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#7
The "true remnant" aka groups of heretics who stand aloof from mainstream Christianity :D.
 
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motojojo

Guest
#8
OK, Harley Angel I agree with you totally, in fact GOD has put this issue on my heart about the stiff and ridged doctrines that won't bend a little and become more humble and loving, but in the defense of these that seam to quarrel. Don't take them to serious, they are on a journey and what they think they know burns in there heart and they have to express it. I know I've beat more people up with my Bible than you know, and for that I'm sorry.This that they do its a good thing because they are growing, they are climbing a mountain, lets hope they go over the other side and don't get stuck on the wrong side and gather around and make another church. On the other side is humility and Humanity. Praise GOD they are doing there part. Going to GOD is never easy on the narrow path, it's the wide path thats easy
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#9
we discuss things to bring unity, Jesus said that He is the WAY, the TRUTH, the LIFE. there is not many ways into Heaven But One, THE WAY, there are not many gospels, that lead into the Kingdom But The TRUE GOSPEL, the Truth is not made true by what we want to believe, doesn't matter what we believe but rather if God said it,to make it true. The LIFE, if you are in Me than I am in you, and the Father. many on that day I said to; depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you.They argued with The Lord, they honestly thought that they were in by what they had done, and they honestly thought they were doing these works in His name. Satan is the great deceiver, that deceives by twisting the Word of God, he has done it from the beginning of time as we know it. Now I will admit alot of this stuff that we discuss doesn't amount to a hill of beans. But If we can show someone, say that although most folks preach that we can't be perfect, But God wants us to strive to be perfect and through The power of the Holy Spirit, and the Blood Of Jesus and the faith In The Father we can, for God said 2pe 2:9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Now to say that we can't resist sin is to say that God lied, A homosexual that says I can't change this is the way I am, has in around about way just called God a Lair, For God said that He can deliver them from that temptation not only that temptation, but all Temptations. then we which are spiritual get in a room like this and say well, I lie from time to time But it's ok. and then I had a family come to church for a while, the 15 year old girl in this family was struggling with a homosexual life herself. once while I was talking to her. she said I know it is wrong before God but so what, so is lying and My Mom and her Husband lie to us children all the time and then drag us to church. ok now so If I can show someone, from scriptures such as yourself that lying is just as bad as any other sin, then I may be able to make you think well If I was wrong about that maybe I was wrong in some other areas, and guess what? You will Turn to the Word of God And study and if nothing else is good about a bible discussion forum the good I get from it is that It makes me stay it the Word and study to show myself approved. that same Mom told me after they left the Church, that she was just going to love her daughter, for what she is, for that is what God did for Her, and that they were going to accept whatever she decided to be. But God commended His love while we were yet sinners, But never told us that we could continue as we were, but yet to repent to change. Be ye Holy, for I am Holy

Ro 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.Ro 12:2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And Through Jesus we have a choice to continue in sin just as this young girl has been taught

1jo 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Notice here IF, not when, we sin but IF we sin

But God said when ask IF we were to continue in sin

Ro 6:1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?Ro 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

This is why I discuss things such as the way I do, For His Truth, That His Glory Might be shown. the Division of Good and evil, life and Death, HEAVEN or hell
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#10
The "true remnant" aka groups of heretics who stand aloof from mainstream Christianity :D.
Actually it is possible that you may be part of the true remnant. The true remnant are followers of Christ through out all denomination and truly serve Christ, are in an intimate relationship with Christ rather than a religion. The remnant are those that believe and obey, rather than just have a mental ascent to their religion. The remnant is God's chosen Bride. You may deny being part of the remnant, but if you do you are denying being a part of Christ's body.


There are true believe ''God's remnant'' within and without what you would call mainstream christianity. Me personally want to be a far away from mainstream as possible. ''Mainstream'' christianity is one of the largest perpetrator of false doctrine around.
 
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Jan 8, 2009
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#11
I note that there is no scriptural nor historical support given for your remnant beliefs. The remnant is all Christians. There are no sub-classes of "remnants" within Christianity, at least I can't find any in my bible. Your beliefs are a sure indication of spiritual pride.
 
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Apr 23, 2009
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#12
I note that there is no scriptural nor historical support given for your remnant beliefs. The remnant is all Christians. There are no sub-classes of "remnants" within Christianity, at least I can't find any in my bible. Your beliefs are a sure indication of spiritual pride.
Yes the remnant is all Christians. The thing is not all ''christians'' are really Christians, only the remant are.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#13
There are no sub-classes of "remnants" within Christianity,
There are more hypocrites on their way to Hell within ''christianity'' than true Christian. If you do not realize that it is probably because you too run with the hypocrites with in your beloeved mainstream.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#14
wow!!!! you two, She ask why we discuss things the way we did and what we thought about a certain verse she didn't ask for another debate, and all the judging
 
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motojojo

Guest
#15
Ding ding ding round 2
 
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Harley_Angel

Guest
#16
This actually illustrates why I thought this verse was so important. We can discuss things without being sarcastic and sardonic. Would you talk to Jesus the way you talk to each other? Discussion doesn't mean attacking each other, either openly or subtly. If we can't even love one another as Christians, or talk to another Christian without become enraged, pompous, or rude, how are we going to reach other people?
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#17
This actually illustrates why I thought this verse was so important. We can discuss things without being sarcastic and sardonic. Would you talk to Jesus the way you talk to each other? Discussion doesn't mean attacking each other, either openly or subtly. If we can't even love one another as Christians, or talk to another Christian without become enraged, pompous, or rude, how are we going to reach other people?
Well when you talk about "love", I mean if we all just Hi-fived each other, congratulated and praised, complimented and cheered each other on in the nicest and most pleasant way, do you really think that would be constructive? Is that truth? It is a love of truth, the will of the Father this leads to what "love" is, a love of truth, if people share the same truths then their love is assured but love without truth is a deception, we should seek truth first, love only exists when truth is established - false sentiment and emotion however grows like an algae bloom wherever lies are in fashion. I personally just cannot accept lies for the purpose of false peace, to me false peace and comfort security in pleasantries is not what love is, love exists where truth is and the truth is with God.
 
Jul 8, 2009
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#18
Well when you talk about "love", I mean if we all just Hi-fived each other, congratulated and praised, complimented and cheered each other on in the nicest and most pleasant way, do you really think that would be constructive? Is that truth? It is a love of truth, the will of the Father this leads to what "love" is, a love of truth, if people share the same truths then their love is assured but love without truth is a deception, we should seek truth first, love only exists when truth is established - false sentiment and emotion however grows like an algae bloom wherever lies are in fashion. I personally just cannot accept lies for the purpose of false peace, to me false peace and comfort security in pleasantries is not what love is, love exists where truth is and the truth is with God.
The way I see it, you can abide in truth and be respectful and loving toward your neighbor at the same time. The Greatest command is to Love the Lord with all your heart, and the next command, no less great, is to love your neighbor as yourself. In my opinion, the fact that something may be believed to be true is no excuse to present that truth in a disrespectful way (and claiming that it was said in love is no justification, in my eyes, if the recipients only see the opposite). I have witnessed much arrogance by people claiming to speak truth, and that(truth) in turn was claimed to justify the manner in which it was spoken. I consequently saw the fruits of that tree, with people becoming polarized and bickering back and forth. You will know the tree by it's fruits. In response to the above quote, love has a longer definition. Love is kind...
 

Graybeard

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2009
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#19
problem is most folk do not understand what "love" is, the english language has but one meaning of love. most believe "love" is that fuzzy feeling we get when in fact there are different kinds of love, like there is a love you have for your wife/husband and a love for family, both are different, another kind of love which can only be got from God is the love one has to have to be able to love your neighbor, I think there are four different kinds eros-agape are two am not sure of the others but all have different meanings. It is a pity that for all the different kinds of love the scripture teaches us our english Bibles have the same word for all.
 
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Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#20
The way I see it, you can abide in truth and be respectful and loving toward your neighbor at the same time. The Greatest command is to Love the Lord with all your heart, and the next command, no less great, is to love your neighbor as yourself.
The second is entirely reliant on the first, which is the love of God, who is truth, so the love of thy neighbour is dependent on the love of God, if your truth is not their truth then no love can exist as love can only exist where there is truth, love can only exist between two people, you will not find this in our post modern relativistic dictionaries where 'love' has come to be defined as an individual's desire for something, see love and lust the devil has now blurred into one. The truth is love can only exist in the truth of attatchment between two, see love is not someone's own desire to be respectful to others, that is not love, that's just good manners, people get 'charity' and 'love' confused as well.

Always remember that it is the human heart that is above all wicked, love does not exist in our human hearts alone, love exists on the truth of the attachment of one to another, it is selfless you understand
 
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