What happens after divorce?
- Thread starter shrimp
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
May I ask, "what is it about the scriptural order of authority that you do not understand?"
3But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Corinthians 11:3
Do you think that us men have equal authority with Christ, too? Surely you do if you think woman has equal authority with man.
3But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Corinthians 11:3
Do you think that us men have equal authority with Christ, too? Surely you do if you think woman has equal authority with man.
So, what you're saying is vs. 11 and 12
"11Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God." - 1 Corinthians 11:11-12
nullify what he just said in vs. 3
3But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, a and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Corinthians 11:3
And so man is NOT head of woman. Is that what you're saying?
"11Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God." - 1 Corinthians 11:11-12
nullify what he just said in vs. 3
3But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, a and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Corinthians 11:3
And so man is NOT head of woman. Is that what you're saying?
Firstly, it is the Saint Apostle Paul that is saying these things.
And that in verse 3 is Paul's opinion as he lends guidance to the churches in Corinth.
Paul's epistles are known to be revelations from God and also Paul's own opinions and guidance to the churches he founded.
God said of man and woman that they are one flesh. This does not mean man is superior to woman.
The Book of Genesis chapter 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
A woman is not inferior to a man. We know this because man and woman were made in the image and likeness of God.
And that in verse 3 is Paul's opinion as he lends guidance to the churches in Corinth.
Paul's epistles are known to be revelations from God and also Paul's own opinions and guidance to the churches he founded.
God said of man and woman that they are one flesh. This does not mean man is superior to woman.
The Book of Genesis chapter 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
A woman is not inferior to a man. We know this because man and woman were made in the image and likeness of God.
Of course a woman is not inferior to man. We are talking about order of authority. You have Paul contradicting himself when you suggest that vs. 11-12 nullifies vs. 3 in 1 Corinthians 11. You realize that, don't you?
And as far as opinions go. Was Paul only offering a situational opinion for his day only when he stated the reason why woman is not to have authority over a man?
"11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve." - 1 Timothy 2"11-13
Doesn't look like a cultural or situational reason that may or may not change over time. What's different now about Adam being created first, then Eve that makes it so woman can have authority over a man at this time in history?
And as far as opinions go. Was Paul only offering a situational opinion for his day only when he stated the reason why woman is not to have authority over a man?
"11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve." - 1 Timothy 2"11-13
Doesn't look like a cultural or situational reason that may or may not change over time. What's different now about Adam being created first, then Eve that makes it so woman can have authority over a man at this time in history?
As I stated earlier, man and woman become on flesh. One.
That Adam was created first does not mean that man is in authority over a woman. It means that after creating Adam God knew he could do better and then He created Eve. Kidding.
It means that when God created woman from Adam's mid-section, his rib, that the woman who was made from exactly the same thing that created Adam, the dust of the earth that is of the Creator and from the Creator and as are all things created, that she was equal to man and one with man. Because she was made from the same stuff that Adam was. All of God's power within all that He created.
They are equals. And they are one.
As for 1 Timothy that you now enter into the discussion, Paul would be contradicting himself yet again if one believes his words are making man superior to the female. Which is what is implied when you insist that man has authority over woman.
For 1st Timothy actually does contradict what Paul said, recognized, honored, and issued, in appointing women to be Apostles and teachers, and recognizing woman as prophetesses.
See also the Book of Acts chapter 21:9 where Paul acknowledges the prophetesses and daughters of Philip the evangelist.
The Book of Philippians chapter 4:I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. 3 Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
The Book of Romans chapter 16.
Misinterpretation, misrepresentation, do not serve the church. Paul recognized not just women Apostles but also prophetesses.
This would then make it impossible to try to say Paul believed women should remain silent in the church. And as we know, the role of Apostle was that of a teacher, so that would indeed put at odd's the facts of Paul recognizing the good works of female Apostles with the verse that has him saying women are not to be allowed to teach.
And nowhere in such verses as that which shows Paul recognizing women Apostles and Prophetesses is there indication those women were under the authority of a man. In fact in Paul's churches he recognized the women Apostles who worked side by side with him to deliver the Good News.
In fact, in the Book of 1st Corinthians chapter 14 Paul indicates that the role of prophecy was a matter for the whole congregation, not just a privileged minority.
This debate has gone on for generations. A man's mind who believes women are in a subjugated role to men is not going to change. Not even when the Apostle they cite as believing as they do actually praises women who teach and and are prophets and work side by side with him to teach the word.
And as Paul said, these gifts and dedication to the word by women and men are of God. When God calls a woman to teach, preach, act as His Apostle, and Prophesy one cannot say that women are then not called to do this, nor are they unable to due to their sex.
The Book of Ephesians chapter 4.
For that one who believes women are less than, or are to be subservient to males, they are entitled to believe this. One doubtlessly will not be able to change their mind in debate. However, when God calls people to His service, and there is record of women working side by side with an Apostle to bring the Gospel to a people, I believe that is the final word. Because we are told in scripture that there is no Greek, no Jew, no Gentile, no male nor female, because we are all one in Christ.
Thinking there is a minority identity due to one's sex is thinking that is not true. We cannot all be one, and then argue that we are divided due to our sex as Christians.
That Adam was created first does not mean that man is in authority over a woman. It means that after creating Adam God knew he could do better and then He created Eve. Kidding.
It means that when God created woman from Adam's mid-section, his rib, that the woman who was made from exactly the same thing that created Adam, the dust of the earth that is of the Creator and from the Creator and as are all things created, that she was equal to man and one with man. Because she was made from the same stuff that Adam was. All of God's power within all that He created.
They are equals. And they are one.
As for 1 Timothy that you now enter into the discussion, Paul would be contradicting himself yet again if one believes his words are making man superior to the female. Which is what is implied when you insist that man has authority over woman.
For 1st Timothy actually does contradict what Paul said, recognized, honored, and issued, in appointing women to be Apostles and teachers, and recognizing woman as prophetesses.
See also the Book of Acts chapter 21:9 where Paul acknowledges the prophetesses and daughters of Philip the evangelist.
The Book of Philippians chapter 4:I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. 3 Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
The Book of Romans chapter 16.
Misinterpretation, misrepresentation, do not serve the church. Paul recognized not just women Apostles but also prophetesses.
This would then make it impossible to try to say Paul believed women should remain silent in the church. And as we know, the role of Apostle was that of a teacher, so that would indeed put at odd's the facts of Paul recognizing the good works of female Apostles with the verse that has him saying women are not to be allowed to teach.
And nowhere in such verses as that which shows Paul recognizing women Apostles and Prophetesses is there indication those women were under the authority of a man. In fact in Paul's churches he recognized the women Apostles who worked side by side with him to deliver the Good News.
In fact, in the Book of 1st Corinthians chapter 14 Paul indicates that the role of prophecy was a matter for the whole congregation, not just a privileged minority.
This debate has gone on for generations. A man's mind who believes women are in a subjugated role to men is not going to change. Not even when the Apostle they cite as believing as they do actually praises women who teach and and are prophets and work side by side with him to teach the word.
And as Paul said, these gifts and dedication to the word by women and men are of God. When God calls a woman to teach, preach, act as His Apostle, and Prophesy one cannot say that women are then not called to do this, nor are they unable to due to their sex.
The Book of Ephesians chapter 4.
For that one who believes women are less than, or are to be subservient to males, they are entitled to believe this. One doubtlessly will not be able to change their mind in debate. However, when God calls people to His service, and there is record of women working side by side with an Apostle to bring the Gospel to a people, I believe that is the final word. Because we are told in scripture that there is no Greek, no Jew, no Gentile, no male nor female, because we are all one in Christ.
Thinking there is a minority identity due to one's sex is thinking that is not true. We cannot all be one, and then argue that we are divided due to our sex as Christians.
-
1
- Show all
Which explains the reason Moses allowed it. Not because it's not adultery, but because of the hardness and insensitivity of men's hearts (towards God and their first wife) in a covenant based on law, not the Spirit. Just because polygamy was allowed in the first covenant doesn't mean it's not adultery. That just means it was allowed under those circumstances, and for the very unspiritual and ignoble reason of hardness of heart.
Look closely at what Jesus says:
"9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” - Matthew 19:9
See it?
If you're committing adultery if you divorce your wife and sleep with another woman, how is it not adultery if you don't divorce your wife and sleep with another woman?
Look closely at what Jesus says:
"9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” - Matthew 19:9
See it?
If you're committing adultery if you divorce your wife and sleep with another woman, how is it not adultery if you don't divorce your wife and sleep with another woman?
Apparently there is a vast ignorance of the law. Not even a king was allowed to gather wives to himself. I do not understand fuly how David and Solomon for two, got away with their filandering, but they certainly were living in the grace of God………..you figure it out; I will remain content hearing our King.
Then what Paul said here is meaningless:
"the man is the head of a woman" - 1 Corinthians 11:3
We have once again nullified the word of God by over thinking the matter with the intent of making the Word not really mean what it says. The passage has no meaning or application now. Reminds me of how the Pharisees made void the Word of God by their own word and traditions and in the end rationalized not having to do what the Word commanded.
"Christ is the head of every man" - 1 Corinthians 11:3
We don't seem to have a problem with acknowledging that Christ is in authority over a man, but we can't seem to bring ourselves to acknowledge that just as that is true, so it is that Paul says the man is head over a woman.
"the man is the head of a woman" - 1 Corinthians 11:3
We have once again nullified the word of God by over thinking the matter with the intent of making the Word not really mean what it says. The passage has no meaning or application now. Reminds me of how the Pharisees made void the Word of God by their own word and traditions and in the end rationalized not having to do what the Word commanded.
"Christ is the head of every man" - 1 Corinthians 11:3
We don't seem to have a problem with acknowledging that Christ is in authority over a man, but we can't seem to bring ourselves to acknowledge that just as that is true, so it is that Paul says the man is head over a woman.
None of this means a woman can have pastoral authority over a man. They can do a lot of things, but they can't have pastoral authority over men. Maybe it's hard for us to accept because we don't understand that being a pastor or elder used to mean you actually had authority over your congregants.
"17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account." - Hebrews 13:17
Biblically, in the church and in the home, men do not submit to the authority of women that they do not have. Man is head over woman. That is the order of authority, just as Christ is head over the man.
"17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account." - Hebrews 13:17
Biblically, in the church and in the home, men do not submit to the authority of women that they do not have. Man is head over woman. That is the order of authority, just as Christ is head over the man.
-
1
- Show all
You had to be able to provide for your wives and concubines. You could marry another wife and sleep with her and the first but you couldn’t replace her. She wouldn’t have any property or means to trade. She would no longer be a virgin and possibly have to sell herself into slavery. Marriage was more of a business deal with breeding rights. It determined whose children were heirs. It didn’t limit who men could sleep with. God designed many mammals to have one alpha male to impregnate multiple females. In nature the mothers love is for the children, not exclusivity to the sire (sperm provider). Man has fallen from natural instinctive law but the urges are still present. Without law there is only chaos, this is why God gave these laws to Moses. Polygamy wasn’t abolished because it didn’t work and it was sinful. Paul urged all marriage was distraction from serving God, so only take a spouse to prevent your sexual urges from causing you to stumble. Every person reborn of the Spirit should have self control, and be under rule of the Spirit and not the flesh. We are not under Moses Law. There is not even a need to examine it for legality. We are under the rule of love. We serve the Lord, not the flesh. If we view pornography or seek sexual pleasure outside the marriage we are serving the flesh. Then flesh is our master and flesh is our lord. Christ declared those who serve Him will be identified by their love. Destroying your home for the chemical surge released at orgasm is not loving. Divorce is not loving. It is not kind. It is not the product of patience and benevolence and self control. Clearly some people should not be married, and it may not be a fault of their own. However, your inability to either be a good spouse or pick a good spouse should prevent you from trying again. Marriage today is too much work. Then instead of serving the Lord we spend countless hours just trying to maintain the marriage. Marriage is designed for oneness, two bodies, one mission. Women are much too independent to share the husband’s mission so oneness is no longer achievable. Happy wife, happy life is not what marriage was ever supposed to be. We are not supposed to serve our spouse. We care for our spouse, but we serve the Lord.
Even David. After a battle he was so beat up they weren’t sure if he was even alive. They decided to put a virgin in bed with him. This was reportedly the only thing that revived him. To admire the beauty and curves and reproductive qualities are what has not only sustained our species of man but every creature ever made. It is not the strength of the urge, more the direction that leads to destruction. In this case the direction of another man’s wife, or if you really feel the need to reinterpret it to include females, another woman’s husband, but that’s not what He said.