What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?

[posthuman]

see you did not read what I wrote....

it seems to me that you are the one not reading or understanding what i wrote.

you said:

he says baptism is not the removal of dirt from the body...because people like you think it is...it is the pledge of a clear conscience...and you cannot understand that....the other part says baptism now saves you....and you don't believe that either

and i pointed out that the ceremonial practice of washing with water was in place with the Levitical Law, and that that is entirely consistent with how Peter says the baptism that saves is not the actual washing of dirt from the body, but the answer of a clear conscience -- just as washing with water ceremonially under the Law is.

you are idolizing a ceremony, thinking that righteousness and justification are born of law. you cannot bear the words i am speaking, so you can only attack my character and repost over and over the same scripture that you do not understand.

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified,
and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
(Romans 10:10)

Paul and Peter do not preach a different gospel. Paul does not​ say water baptism saves.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
(1 Peter 1:1-2)

Peter says here we are sanctified by God's Spirit, not by water.
Peter says here we are sprinkled with Christ's blood, not with water.
Peter preaches one gospel, not two.

if Peter believed water absolves sin, he would not have specifically said that it is not the washing of the flesh that saves, but the answer of a good conscious toward God.

 

[newbirth]

Let's look at this in the whole context of what happened recorded in Acts 22-23,...Paul is a Jew who is in the process of hunting down Christians before being blinded by Jesus. Ananias is a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there. Paul still is a Jew at this time under the law in the process of Christian conversion which Ananias wants no part of. Ananias is the head priest who washes him based on the experience he had on his way to Damascus. This was witnessed by the men (Jews) with him who saw him blinded so Ananias had to accept it. Ananias is not baptizing Paul as a Christian he is baptizing him according to the law see Exodus 29:4And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water. If you move ahead to Acts 22:30-23:1-5 you will find that this same Ananias is the head priest who commands Paul to be smote on the mouth. This baptism with water did nothing for Paul. It was a requirement for priests under the old law.
Acts 22:30 On the morrow, because he would have known the certainty wherefore he was accused of the Jews, he loosed him from his bands, and commanded the chief priests and all their council to appear, and brought Paul down, and set him before them.
Acts 23:1And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day. 2And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. 3Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? 4And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? 5Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

what are you talking about ?? Who says it was the same Ananias? I suppose you did not read the full quote...your mention of christian is so way off....they were first called christians at Antioch long after Paul baptism.....And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 11:26

and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

 

[newbirth]

it seems to me that you are the one not reading or understanding what i wrote.

you said:



and i pointed out that the ceremonial practice of washing with water was in place with the Levitical Law, and that that is entirely consistent with how Peter says the baptism that saves is not the actual washing of dirt from the body, but the answer of a clear conscience -- just as washing with water ceremonially under the Law is.

you are idolizing a ceremony, thinking that righteousness and justification are born of law. you cannot bear the words i am speaking, so you can only attack my character and repost over and over the same scripture that you do not understand.

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified,
and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
(Romans 10:10)

Paul and Peter do not preach a different gospel. Paul does not​ say water baptism saves.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
(1 Peter 1:1-2)

Peter says here we are sanctified by God's Spirit, not by water.
Peter says here we are sprinkled with Christ's blood, not with water.
Peter preaches one gospel, not two.

if Peter believed water absolves sin, he would not have specifically said that it is not the washing of the flesh that saves, but the answer of a good conscious toward God.

Peter did not say that,,,,,that it is not the washing of the flesh that saves,it is you who make up that...he said...
1 Peter 3:21Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.)

still you will not believe God

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Romans 6:2-4King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

How are we buried with him by spirit baptism into death?the spirit brings life....water baptism is the death of the old man and the birth of a new creature with the promise of the HS

since it does say repent and be baptised..you conclude the scripture is saying spirit baptise....imagine Peter telling you to repent and be spirit baptized

this is the promise that came down to us...maybe you can do this without water
Acts 2:38-39American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

You can ignore the scriptures concerning being baptized with holy Spirit which is what brings new life to a believer. The holy Spirit is the created new man within a believer - water doesn't accomplish that but the Spirit being born within the believer is what creates the new man. Repentance is turning around, a change of mind - putting to death the old - at that instant of repentance and confession, a man is immersed in holy Spirit. It is impossible to walk in newness of life without being filled with the Spirit, being baptized with the Spirit, being born again of the Spirit - WATER doesn't accomplish that.

It isn't that anyone should NOT be baptized in water but that it is no longer doctrinal. Water cannot change the inside of a person - NEVER; EVER.

"Repentance and baptism began with the preaching of John..." That is so true . . . and baptism with living water, holy Spirit was ushered in by Christ's ascension.

People can choose to be water baptized - is it necessary for salvation - NO! To some it is important to THEM that they are water baptized: to strengthen mental and emotional impact and help solidify their personal commitment to Christ - for some the ceremony produces a feeling of safety, churches sometimes use water baptism as their way to make a distinction of who belongs and who doesn't, and it can also be a statement of personal commitment to a local congregation - for whatever reason, the ceremony of water baptism should always be accompanied by personal repentance and a commitment to Christian lifestyle and character. The thing to understand is water baptism does not SAVE but being born again of the Spirit is what SAVES and being born again of the Spirit is baptism in holy Spirit - immersion of Christ in you, the hope of glory!

 

[Kerry]

So whats more important being baptized in the holy Spirit or trusting in the work of the cross? You cannot be baptized in the Holy Ghost unless you submit to the work of the cross and call your own works filthy rags.

 

[posthuman]

Peter did not say that,,,,,that it is not the washing of the flesh that saves,it is you who make up that...he said...
1 Peter 3:21Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.)

still you will not believe God

'the living bible' is not a 'translation' of the scripture. it's a paraphrase of what the scriptures actually say, and it betrays a false understanding in many places.

try it in a literal translation:
also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ
(1 Peter 3:12, YLT)

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]which[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]also[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4771 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hymas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὑμᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]us[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-A2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]499 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]antitypon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀντίτυπον[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]typical of[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3568 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nyn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νῦν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]now[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4982 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]sōzei[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]σῴζει[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]saving[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]908 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]baptisma[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]βάπτισμα,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] baptism,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4561 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]sarkos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]σαρκὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of flesh[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apothesis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόθεσις[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]a putting away[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4509 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]rhypou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ῥύπου[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of [the] filth,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]235 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]alla[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀλλὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4893 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]syneidēseōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συνειδήσεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of a conscience[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]18 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]agathēs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀγαθῆς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]good,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1906 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eperōtēma[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐπερώτημα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] demand[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1519 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]toward[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεόν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1223 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]di’[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δι’[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]through[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]386 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]anastaseōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀναστάσεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] resurrection[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2424 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Iēsou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ἰησοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of Jesus[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5547 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Christou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Χριστοῦ,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Christ;[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

we are not saved by the putting away of the filth of the flesh.
we are saved by answering in good conscience with regard to God, through the resurrection of Christ.

 

[posthuman]

do we all agree that Peter and Paul preach the same gospel?

 

[Kerry]

'the living bible' is not a 'translation' of the scripture. it's a paraphrase of what the scriptures actually say, and it betrays a false understanding in many places.

try it in a literal translation:
also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ
(1 Peter 3:12, YLT)

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]which[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]also[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4771 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hymas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὑμᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]us[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-A2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]499 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]antitypon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀντίτυπον[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]typical of[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3568 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nyn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νῦν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]now[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4982 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]sōzei[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]σῴζει[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]saving[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]908 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]baptisma[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]βάπτισμα,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] baptism,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4561 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]sarkos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]σαρκὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of flesh[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apothesis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόθεσις[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]a putting away[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4509 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]rhypou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ῥύπου[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of [the] filth,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]235 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]alla[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀλλὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4893 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]syneidēseōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]συνειδήσεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of a conscience[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]18 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]agathēs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀγαθῆς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]good,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1906 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eperōtēma[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐπερώτημα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] demand[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1519 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]toward[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεόν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1223 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]di’[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δι’[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]through[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]386 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]anastaseōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀναστάσεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] resurrection[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2424 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Iēsou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ἰησοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of Jesus[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5547 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Christou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Χριστοῦ,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Christ;[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

we are not saved by the putting away of the filth of the flesh.
we are saved by answering in good conscience with regard to God, through the resurrection of Christ.

Close Posthuman, the Resurrection could not happen without the cross. It is the cross where we must place our faith.

 

[posthuman]

Close Posthuman, the Resurrection could not happen without the cross. It is the cross where we must place our faith.

at the cross we received absolution, and at the empty tomb we received life

in the baptismal font we confess & affirm what we have believed and received

 

[Kerry]

The cross was the ultimate sacrafice and the Resurrection was the first fruit. Think about it and may God bless you.

 

[newbirth]

You can ignore the scriptures concerning being baptized with holy Spirit which is what brings new life to a believer. The holy Spirit is the created new man within a believer - water doesn't accomplish that but the Spirit being born within the believer is what creates the new man. Repentance is turning around, a change of mind - putting to death the old - at that instant of repentance and confession, a man is immersed in holy Spirit. It is impossible to walk in newness of life without being filled with the Spirit, being baptized with the Spirit, being born again of the Spirit - WATER doesn't accomplish that.

It isn't that anyone should NOT be baptized in water but that it is no longer doctrinal. Water cannot change the inside of a person - NEVER; EVER.

"Repentance and baptism began with the preaching of John..." That is so true . . . and baptism with living water, holy Spirit was ushered in by Christ's ascension.

People can choose to be water baptized - is it necessary for salvation - NO! To some it is important to THEM that they are water baptized: to strengthen mental and emotional impact and help solidify their personal commitment to Christ - for some the ceremony produces a feeling of safety, churches sometimes use water baptism as their way to make a distinction of who belongs and who doesn't, and it can also be a statement of personal commitment to a local congregation - for whatever reason, the ceremony of water baptism should always be accompanied by personal repentance and a commitment to Christian lifestyle and character. The thing to understand is water baptism does not SAVE but being born again of the Spirit is what SAVES and being born again of the Spirit is baptism in holy Spirit - immersion of Christ in you, the hope of glory!

water baptism is the death of the old man

Col 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life. [SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

 

[newbirth]

do we all agree that Peter and Paul preach the same gospel?

I never doubted...it still says baptism saves us through a good conscience toward God through the rising again of Jesus Christ

also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ

Colossians 2 Names of God Bible (NOG)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life. [SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

 

[posthuman]

water baptism is the death of the old man

Col 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life. [SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

if clearly the circumcision that our hearts are circumcised with was not done with human hands,
why would you think that we enter into His death and resurrection by human hands?

He erased the charges against us.
He nailed them to the cross.
He forgave our failures.
He made us alive in Christ.

no human hand did any of these things.

Christ removed my corrupt nature. the man that baptized me in water did not. the water in the pool did not.

quit beating around the bush -- we've had this conversation already.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT PAUL AND PETER PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL
if you do, why do you reject Romans 10:10?
if you do not, why do you reject 2 Peter 3:15-16?

 

[thecreationtutor]

If a man believes in the Lord Jesus, trusts the Lord Jesus as His Savior, but he does not get water baptized, what happens to him? Does he go to hell? Bible proof?

seriously this is your big issue, really?

 

[Atwood]

NewB, this thread is supposed to be about what happens to an unbaptized believer. But I guess you don't have any data on that one, so you want to do a rabbit path? Don't you find it strange the lack of any bad outcome ever mentioned for those who don't get water-baptized?

baptism saves us through a good conscience toward God through the rising again of Jesus Christ

Now tell the truth, NewB, does your sentence make any sense whatsoever? You say water baptism saves us "through a good conscience through the rising again." Gobbledegook!

ὕδατος; 21 ὃ καὶ ὑμᾶς ἀντίτυπον [corresponding-figure-ishly] νῦν σῴζει βάπτισμα,

when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: 21 which also after a corresponding figure doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

Baptism is a figure of salvation; not the substance. Christ's death & resurrection saves; water baptism pictures that.

Beware of all-wet doctrine.

 

[newbirth]

if clearly the circumcision that our hearts are circumcised with was not done with human hands,
why would you think that we enter into His death and resurrection by human hands?

He erased the charges against us.
He nailed them to the cross.
He forgave our failures.
He made us alive in Christ.

no human hand did any of these things.

Christ removed my corrupt nature. the man that baptized me in water did not. the water in the pool did not.

quit beating around the bush -- we've had this conversation already.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT PAUL AND PETER PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL
if you do, why do you reject Romans 10:10?
if you do not, why do you reject 2 Peter 3:15-16?

[SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

 

[Atwood]

There is nothing in NewB's post about what happens to the unbaptized believer; but nonetheless, he has something to say about baptism.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when [not in the text]
you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

The passage refers to Spirit baptism; no water is present. Spirit baptism puts the believer into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). Thus what happened to Christ is attributed to the believer; He died, believers died; He rose, believers rose; He ascended, believers ascended.

8 Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ: 9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, 10 and in him ye are made full, who is the head of all principality and power: 11 in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, I say, did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses; 14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross; 15 having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[Atwood]

seriously this is your big issue, really?

Trusting Christ as Savior, is not just my big issue; it is the big issue of all mankind.

It is hardly worthy of a sneer.

 

[posthuman]

[SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

here we are again with paraphrases that add human ideas to the Word.
i reject "GOD'S WORD[SUP]®[/SUP] 'Translation' "
it is not a translation; it's a paraphrase with a doctrinal agenda inserted into the scripture.

being buried with him in the baptism,
in which also ye rose with him through the faith of the working of God,
who did raise him out of the dead.
(Colossians 2:12, YLT)

we were buried and are risen through the faith of the work of God, not the working of man.
Christ baptized me.
because He put His spirit in me, i sought out later to be baptized in water, to demonstrate publicly that i had received and believed the gospel. (this was the answer of my conscience toward God)
it was the baptism of Christ that justified me, not the baptism of water.

 

[posthuman]

Trusting Christ as Savior, is not just my big issue; it is the big issue of all mankind.

It is hardly worthy of a sneer.

i agree with that ^
to my understanding, calling water baptism - or any other ritual - the means of my salvation is idolatry.
i sin if i don't reject it.

that's not to reject the custom, but to reject the idea that the custom is what saves.

how good though, that we agree Christ was sent to die for our sins, and resurrected securing for us the promise of eternal life!!

i'd much rather contend over this than spat with atheists or others who completely reject Christ