What happens to our souls when we die?

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superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#1
This thread is in response to some in here who think that the soul dies with the body when our flesh dies.

You are correct in that we are made up of both our bodies and our spirits. It is unnatural for our spirits to be absent from our bodies, and yet that is exactly what takes place when we die. When Jesus died on the cross, he said I commend my Spirit to God, and yet His body was placed in the grave at that point. Jesus, as you know, was the firstfruits of the resurrection. It is this fact that is our hope of being resurrected. If what you say is true, (those who believe in the death of the soul), then Jesus' spirit ceased to exist at death, and was resurrected, therefore, Jesus is not eternal and is instead a created being. That is a very bad heresy.

1. The soul is mentioned in the bible as something separate from the physical nature.

Revelation 6: 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

2. The spirit is treated as separate and distinct from the body.

Matthew 27: 50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

Romans 8: 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Acts 7: 59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

3. Death is a separation of the person from the body.

2 Corinthians 5: 1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. .......8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.

2 Peter 1: 13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

See also 2 Cor. 10:3; 12:2-3; Gal. 2:20; Phil 1:20-24; Heb. 13:3.

The dualistic nature of humans, i.e. soul/body is apparent in numerous scriptural references, many of which I have not listed in the interest of brevity. The insistence of many groups on the fringes of orthodoxy that the soul dies with the body, is because they have placed the Scriptures as of secondary importance to the teachings of their false prophets.

When Christ returns to claim His Church, we will all be resurrected into new bodies, ones not made of flesh and blood and the materials of this world, but ones which are made for eternal life in our new home which Jesus has prepared for us. Between death and the second return, our souls will be in paradise.
 
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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#2
I agree with most of what you said except for this statement "new bodies, ones not made of flesh and blood and the materials of this world"

the Bible doesn't say what the resurrected bodies will be made up of but Jesus ate and drank and could be touched when He rose from the grave so they have to be able to interact with this world.
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#3
Hi Dave,

I happen to be one of those that believes the soul is in connection with
the body and this physical realm, nowhere can I find in scripture where it
says that the soul returns unto God, only the spirit.

And you only listed one scripture in Rev. that talks about the Souls of those under
the altar for the testimony the held, I assume that you believe these are dead or
have left this world to be with God.

I don't see it like that, I see it as those who die daily, through The Holy Spirit
putting to death the desires of the flesh/soul, earthly, sensual, the old nature.

The first Adam was made a living Soul,
The last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.

Without the Holy Spirit we only have soul life, walking around life, worldly, physical,
earthly.

Blessings
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#4
I agree with most of what you said except for this statement "new bodies, ones not made of flesh and blood and the materials of this world"

the Bible doesn't say what the resurrected bodies will be made up of but Jesus ate and drank and could be touched when He rose from the grave so they have to be able to interact with this world.
1 Corinthians 11: 50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

You are correct Ananda, that the bible does not specifically relate what our bodies will be made up of, however, if they are not made up of flesh and blood, then it is a reasonable assumption that, just as our current bodies are made of earthly materials where we now dwell, then the new bodies will be made of materials suitable for that place where we will be dwelling with Jesus.
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#5
Hi Dave,

I happen to be one of those that believes the soul is in connection with
the body and this physical realm, nowhere can I find in scripture where it
says that the soul returns unto God, only the spirit.

And you only listed one scripture in Rev. that talks about the Souls of those under
the altar for the testimony the held, I assume that you believe these are dead or
have left this world to be with God.

I don't see it like that, I see it as those who die daily, through The Holy Spirit
putting to death the desires of the flesh/soul, earthly, sensual, the old nature.

The first Adam was made a living Soul,
The last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.

Without the Holy Spirit we only have soul life, walking around life, worldly, physical,
earthly.

Blessings
So you believe that we a trichotomy composed of body, soul, and spirit? I am open to this possibility, however, the overwhelming biblical evidence is for the dualistic spirit/body makeup.

Your argument requires that we discard clear biblical scripture, with simple explanations, for very complex and forced conclusions. And it does nothing to account for the initial problem that I put forth, which is, how can Jesus have died in body, and spirit, (soul), and still be eternal? For that moment that he ceased to exist in spirit/soul, he would no longer be eternal, i.e. always existing.

So, if we believe that Jesus died on the cross, and there is overwhelming evidence for that, and you conclude that that death included the death of the spirit/soul, then Jesus is no longer divine. I cannot live with that conclusion.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#6
This thread is in response to some in here who think that the soul dies with the body when our flesh dies.

You are correct in that we are made up of both our bodies and our spirits. It is unnatural for our spirits to be absent from our bodies, and yet that is exactly what takes place when we die. When Jesus died on the cross, he said I commend my Spirit to God, and yet His body was placed in the grave at that point. Jesus, as you know, was the firstfruits of the resurrection. It is this fact that is our hope of being resurrected. If what you say is true, (those who believe in the death of the soul), then Jesus' spirit ceased to exist at death, and was resurrected, therefore, Jesus is not eternal and is instead a created being. That is a very bad heresy.

1. The soul is mentioned in the bible as something separate from the physical nature.

Revelation 6: 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

2. The spirit is treated as separate and distinct from the body.

Matthew 27: 50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

Romans 8: 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Acts 7: 59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

3. Death is a separation of the person from the body.

2 Corinthians 5: 1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. .......8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.

2 Peter 1: 13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

See also 2 Cor. 10:3; 12:2-3; Gal. 2:20; Phil 1:20-24; Heb. 13:3.

The dualistic nature of humans, i.e. soul/body is apparent in numerous scriptural references, many of which I have not listed in the interest of brevity. The insistence of many groups on the fringes of orthodoxy that the soul dies with the body, is because they have placed the Scriptures as of secondary importance to the teachings of their false prophets.

When Christ returns to claim His Church, we will all be resurrected into new bodies, ones not made of flesh and blood and the materials of this world, but ones which are made for eternal life in our new home which Jesus has prepared for us. Between death and the second return, our souls will be in paradise.
Revelation is symbolic you cannot use that, also spirit is translated breath of life.
Genesis 2:7
(7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit); and man became a living soul.

So from this we have Body + Breath of life (spirit) = A soul
When we die we have Body - Breath of life (spirit) = No soul

Ezekiel 18:20
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#7
Revelation is symbolic you cannot use that, also spirit is translated breath of life.
Genesis 2:7
(7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit); and man became a living soul.

So from this we have Body + Breath of life (spirit) = A soul
When we die we have Body - Breath of life (spirit) = No soul

Ezekiel 18:20
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

I refer you to #5 above.
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#8
So you believe that we a trichotomy composed of body, soul, and spirit? I am open to this possibility, however, the overwhelming biblical evidence is for the dualistic spirit/body makeup.

Your argument requires that we discard clear biblical scripture, with simple explanations, for very complex and forced conclusions. And it does nothing to account for the initial problem that I put forth, which is, how can Jesus have died in body, and spirit, (soul), and still be eternal? For that moment that he ceased to exist in spirit/soul, he would no longer be eternal, i.e. always existing.

So, if we believe that Jesus died on the cross, and there is overwhelming evidence for that, and you conclude that that death included the death of the spirit/soul, then Jesus is no longer divine. I cannot live with that conclusion.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#9
So you believe that we a trichotomy composed of body, soul, and spirit? I am open to this possibility, however, the overwhelming biblical evidence is for the dualistic spirit/body makeup.

Your argument requires that we discard clear biblical scripture, with simple explanations, for very complex and forced conclusions. And it does nothing to account for the initial problem that I put forth, which is, how can Jesus have died in body, and spirit, (soul), and still be eternal? For that moment that he ceased to exist in spirit/soul, he would no longer be eternal, i.e. always existing.

So, if we believe that Jesus died on the cross, and there is overwhelming evidence for that, and you conclude that that death included the death of the spirit/soul, then Jesus is no longer divine. I cannot live with that conclusion.
Jesus is God that is why He is eternal and the spirit is not the soul
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#10
Jesus is God that is why He is eternal and the spirit is not the soul
Well, I agreed with you up to this point.

Your right the Spirit is not the Soul, but, The Spirit of God dwelled in Jesus which makes Him
Eternal, but what if He didn't pour out His Soul unto death?

What if He didn't lay down His Life Freely?

Remember He said, He who loses his life shall find it,
But he who saves his life shall lose it.

And also not my will but thine be done.
We all must go through Gethsemene, The press

Jesus was flesh and blood like us, He had the breath of life like all of us
which gave Him a Soul, and spirit like us, in everyway, except one.
He was also given the Spirit without measure, which is different than us.


Blessings
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#11
Well, I agreed with you up to this point.

Your right the Spirit is not the Soul, but, The Spirit of God dwelled in Jesus which makes Him
Eternal, but what if He didn't pour out His Soul unto death?

What if He didn't lay down His Life Freely?

Remember He said, He who loses his life shall find it,
But he who saves his life shall lose it.

And also not my will but thine be done.
We all must go through Gethsemene, The press

Jesus was flesh and blood like us, He had the breath of life like all of us
which gave Him a Soul, and spirit like us, in everyway, except one.
He was also given the Spirit without measure, which is different than us.


Blessings
The human part of Him died but, the God part of Him is eternal it can never die. I do not know any more after this it would be only speculation
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
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#12
I just wanted to add a couple of things more to that.

Never underestimate the Value of Him being The Son,
Sonship is knowing who you are, and knowing that you belong
To The Father, that you came from Him, and all that is His is yours.

He knew He came from the Father, and Knew He was to return.
It was His Home, before the world began, and will always be,
But eventually He will be subject again unto The Father, when
He has put all enemies under His feet.
 
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#13
Body and soul make us living beings.

Gen 2:7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Take away either, we are dead. The soul is simply that which gives life to the body. Animals have soul:

Gen 1:21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

"Creature" is nephesh, the exact same word use of man in Gen 2:7.

Christians also have holy spirit. When a Christian dies, the holy spirit returns to God who gave it. The person does not return.

Humans are integrated beings, made of body and soul (and for Christians, spirit). We do not separate into various parts when we die, some of which live on. We die. We are dead.

Our hope is in being resurrected, just as Jesus' hope was that God, his Father, would resurrect him. He did.

If dead people's souls are in paradise, then death is not an enemy, but a welcome friend. The bible says it's an enemy.
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
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#14
Wow Shroom,

That was really good, and a pleasent surprise, lol

I agree.
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
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#15
The soul will live on for eternity.

The saints will receive a glorified body,not of flesh,which Paul said there is a natural body,and there is a spiritual body.

To those who think the glorified body could be flesh,because Jesus resurrected and walked in flesh for 40 days,the truth is Jesus did not receive His glorified body yet.
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#16
The human part of Him died but, the God part of Him is eternal it can never die. I do not know any more after this it would be only speculation
So, are you saying that Jesus had two souls, a human soul and a divine soul? And thus only the human soul died? I would think about that one if I were you.

None of the explanations that I have seen can adequately explain how Jesus could have died on the cross, with his human soul dying with his body, and still be eternal.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#17
Body and soul make us living beings.

Gen 2:7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Take away either, we are dead. The soul is simply that which gives life to the body. Animals have soul:

Gen 1:21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

"Creature" is nephesh, the exact same word use of man in Gen 2:7.

Christians also have holy spirit. When a Christian dies, the holy spirit returns to God who gave it. The person does not return.

Humans are integrated beings, made of body and soul (and for Christians, spirit). We do not separate into various parts when we die, some of which live on. We die. We are dead.

Our hope is in being resurrected, just as Jesus' hope was that God, his Father, would resurrect him. He did.

If dead people's souls are in paradise, then death is not an enemy, but a welcome friend. The bible says it's an enemy.
Why do you think that God considers the death of His saints to be precious in His sight? Do you think that God looks at death as an enemy in the case of His saints? Isn't it better to be absent from the body and present with the Lord because being at home in the body means that we are absent from the Lord in (2Cor 5:6,8).

Ps 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD [is] the death of his saints.
 
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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#18
Why do you think that God considers the death of His saints to be precious in His sight? Do you think that God looks at death as an enemy in the case of His saints? Isn't it better to be absent from the body and present with the Lord because being at home in the body means that we are absent from the Lord in (2Cor 5:6,8).

Ps 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD [is] the death of his saints.
"Precious" is better translated as "costly". When believers die, it costs God something. We cannot do anything for Him when we're dead.

"Absent from the body and present with the Lord" is referring to the return of Christ, when we will be absent from these bodies and present with the Lord.

Death does NOBODY any good. It is an enemy.

1 Cor 15:26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
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#19
"Precious" is better translated as "costly". When believers die, it costs God something. We cannot do anything for Him when we're dead.

"Absent from the body and present with the Lord" is referring to the return of Christ, when we will be absent from these bodies and present with the Lord.

Death does NOBODY any good. It is an enemy.

1 Cor 15:26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Shroom2,

The word for 'precious' is yaqar - it means prized, highly valued, costly, rare and splendid, to be esteemed and highly appraised, honorable. This is what the word means and this is how the death of the saints is esteemed in God's sight (His mind).

The death of His saints is highly honored and valued in the mind of God. His thoughts explode with high appraisal concerning the death of His saints and it's not because they are going in the grave as a dead man. He anticipates their arrival to be absent from the body and present with Him. David reflected the heart and mind of God when Saul and his son Jonathan died in battle. David's thoughts highly esteemed them both in God's sight in (2Sam 1:19-27). How many professing believers have despised and spoken evil of those that served God who are now dead. They dare not say anything that would honor and commend them in their death because they rejected them as if God had never called them. They have done this with many men of God because they do not know the mind of God that esteems them highly in death. The day that God takes Billy Graham home to be with Him, many will despise this man in death and never honor him as one that God called by grace to be an evangelist. The death of a believing saint is a very precious thing in God's sight and we would do well to esteem it likewise.
 
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
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#20
Shroom2,

The word for 'precious' is yaqar - it means prized, highly valued, costly, rare and splendid, to be esteemed and highly appraised, honorable. This is what the word means and this is how the death of the saints is esteemed in God's sight (His mind).

The death of His saints is highly honored and valued in the mind of God. His thoughts explode with high appraisal concerning the death of His saints and it's not because they are going in the grave as a dead man. He anticipates their arrival to be absent from the body and present with Him. David reflected the heart and mind of God when Saul and his son Jonathan died in battle. David's thoughts highly esteemed them both in God's sight in (2Sam 1:19-27). How many professing believers have despised and spoken evil of those that served God who are now dead. They dare not say anything that would honor and commend them in their death because they rejected them as if God had never called them. They have done this with many men of God because they do not know the mind of God that esteems them highly in death. The day that God takes Billy Graham home to be with Him, many will despise this man in death and never honor him as one that God called by grace to be an evangelist. The death of a believing saint is a very precious thing in God's sight and we would do well to esteem it likewise.
It is obvious you do not understand what death is.