What happens to our souls when we die?

[Red33]

For whatever reason, you are nitpiking, and you are wrong.

My meaning in #34 is that the soul lives on after death, not that it is eternal.

In #29 I clearly stated what I meant by eternal, which is "not created, and always existing".

That is part of the problem here is that people have different interpretations of what eternal means. Eternal means that it existed outside of time. Nothing that was created existed outside of time.

The fact that those in Christ will never die does not mean eternal, for they do not exist outside of time.

The human soul in man is eternal and will either live forever in a redeemed state of joy and glory or in a state of death, damnation and darkness. Death does not mean termination of existence, it refers to a condition of the soul that is absent of life that lives on in a state of death separated from the life of God.

Mk 3:29 the scriptures use the term of being in danger of 'eternal damnation'. This word 'eternal' is having no beginning and no ending and is an adjective modifying and applied to 'damnation' which is a judgment that involves a sentence of death of separation, torment and darkness. This sentence has no ending and is applied to those that receive this sentence of the second death of eternal damnation.

 

[superdave5221]

Then if you didn't mean eternal, then my apology, I misunderstood
what you said.

And I agree Eternal has no begining and no end.

But I still disagree with the soul living on.

Blessings

The reason that I make this distinction is that ONLY GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND HOLY SPIRIT are eternal, therefore having no beginning and no ending.

If Jesus Christ's soul died on the cross, then how can He be eternal?

For, in that case, even if He existed before time, He ceased to exist on the cross, (if His soul died), and began to exist again at the resurrection. Thus he would have an ending, and a beginning. This is not eternal in the sense that we would describe God as being eternal.

 

[superdave5221]

The human soul in man is eternal and will either live forever in a redeemed state of joy and glory or in a state of death, damnation and darkness. Death does not mean termination of existence, it refers to a condition of the soul that is absent of life that lives on in a state of death separated from the life of God.

Mk 3:29 the scriptures use the term of being in danger of 'eternal damnation'. This word 'eternal' is having no beginning and no ending and is an adjective modifying and applied to 'damnation' which is a judgment that involves a sentence of death of separation, torment and darkness. This sentence has no ending and is applied to those that receive this sentence of the second death of eternal damnation.

The term "eternal" can have different meanings. One of those meanings is "without beginning or ending, existing outside of time". That is why I clearly indicated what I meant so that there would be no confusion.

I have found in this forum that you have to be very specific in what you say, legalistic if you will, or people will attack you for things that you did not mean, and in many cases have nothing to do with the discussion.

Even so, I still end up sometimes explaining myself.

 

[2knowhim]

The reason that I make this distinction is that ONLY GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND HOLY SPIRIT are eternal, therefore having no beginning and no ending.

If Jesus Christ's soul died on the cross, then how can He be eternal?

For, in that case, even if He existed before time, He ceased to exist on the cross, (if His soul died), and began to exist again at the resurrection. Thus he would have an ending, and a beginning. This is not eternal in the sense that we would describe God as being eternal.

Yes, I understand what your saying, but remember were not talking about
Just anyone here, this is the Saviour.

Now on the other hand, if Death by sin, passed upon all men, and that Death
resided in every soul, then as He became sin...(taking it within Himself, His soul) that's how
He could taste Death for every man, and .......taking it into His Death, put to Death, Death itself.

And rose again IN Spirit........Which now we are able to live also unto God. IN SPIRIT.

In fact thats exactly what the scriptures say:


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, (human nature) but quickened by the Spirit:


1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[superdave5221]

Yes, I understand what your saying, but remember were not talking about
Just anyone here, this is the Saviour.

Now on the other hand, if Death by sin, passed upon all men, and that Death
resided in every soul, then as He became sin...(taking it within Himself, His soul) that's how
He could taste Death for every man, and .......taking it into His Death, put to Death, Death itself.

And rose again IN Spirit........Which now we are able to live also unto God. IN SPIRIT.

In fact thats exactly what the scriptures say:


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, (human nature) but quickened by the Spirit:


1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

It sounds like you are saying that we will not have bodies when we are raised up. How then is that a resurrection? If we are only raised in spirit, then why did we have bodies to begin with? And that defeats much of the argument about the body and the soul being one entity.

 

[2knowhim]

It sounds like you are saying that we will not have bodies when we are raised up. How then is that a resurrection? If we are only raised in spirit, then why did we have bodies to begin with? And that defeats much of the argument about the body and the soul being one entity.

No, I don't think so.

Do you realize how many people walk around this earth in the body/soul and are still dead?

We who are born again get to experience life, Real Life from God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
here and now while still in this body of death.
But when we die in the physical body, the spirit goes back to God which has been quicken, and He
gives it a body as it has pleased Him. That's what paul says.

It's funny you would bring this up though, because I was thinking about opening up
the topic on this very scripture.

1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

[superdave5221]

No, I don't think so.

Do you realize how many people walk around this earth in the body/soul and are still dead?

We who are born again get to experience life, Real Life from God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
here and now while still in this body of death.
But when we die in the physical body, the spirit goes back to God which has been quicken, and He
gives it a body as it has pleased Him. That's what paul says.

It's funny you would bring this up though, because I was thinking about opening up
the topic on this very scripture.

1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Please do open up a thread. Let's see where it goes.

 

[serpentslayer]

We who are born again get to experience life, Real Life from God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
here and now while still in this body of death.
But when we die in the physical body, the spirit goes back to God which has been quicken, and He
gives it a body as it has pleased Him. That's what paul says.

If you think you are Born Again just because you are saved, what is the Resurrection of the righteous
called at the End, when that which is sown in corruption shall be raised in incorruption (IICor15:42-44):
Born Again Again?

 

[2knowhim]

If you think you are Born Again just because you are saved, what is the Resurrection of the righteous
called at the End, when that which is sown in corruption shall be raised in incorruption (IICor15:42-44):
Born Again Again?

Being born again, Born from Above, Born of the Spirit= Yes, saved, Redeemed.

Christ is The Resurrection, and The Life, He is my Life, The Life I now live is
By the faith of The Son of God.
I have been Crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I But Christ in me.

Do you not know that he that is Baptised, is Bapitsed into His Death?
When I take my last breath here, in this physical body, then I am with Him,
The change should not take any of us by surprise, other than the fact that,
We shed this body of death. Which is Amazing. You are very much alive in Him.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that wich is born of The Spirit is Spirit.

That I may be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness which is of the Law,
But that which is by the faith of the Son of God.
That I may KNOW HIM, and the Power of His Ressurection,
And The Fellowship of HIS Sufferings, Being made conformable Unto His Death.

Not that I have already attained unto The Resurrection of The Dead, But I press on
for the mark of The High Calling in Christ Jesus.

We should be experiencing His Resurrection Life here and now.
I don't know about a future Resurrection, that is not, ever present in Him.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Blessings

 

[shroom2]

If you think you are Born Again just because you are saved, what is the Resurrection of the righteous
called at the End, when that which is sown in corruption shall be raised in incorruption (IICor15:42-44):
Born Again Again?

Being born again IS being saved. They mean the same thing. Dead Christians will be raised when Christ returns for the church. The resurrection of the just, which will occur after armageddon, is for OT believers.

 

[Red33]

Being born again IS being saved. They mean the same thing. Dead Christians will be raised when Christ returns for the church. The resurrection of the just, which will occur after armageddon, is for OT believers.

Our soul is saved and redeemed by the blood of Christ and cleansed form all sin, but has to go into the ground with the body if we die and stay there until the resurrection. We can have fellowship with the Father and the Son and reveal the redemption that is in Christ through our soul while we are alive, but if we die that all stops and our soul and body is simply dead and put in the grave. God is having fellowship with us and enjoying it while we are alive and being glorified in that fellowship, but then God takes us and we die and God says, 'shucks' another one bites the dust and there is no more fellowship between them. That is just plain stupid and without understanding and those that believe that must not have any fellowship with Him. Anyone that has fellowship with the Father and the Son just knows in their spirit that it's error to believe such a thing.

 

[shroom2]

Our soul is saved and redeemed by the blood of Christ and cleansed form all sin, but has to go into the ground with the body if we die and stay there until the resurrection. We can have fellowship with the Father and the Son and reveal the redemption that is in Christ through our soul while we are alive, but if we die that all stops and our soul and body is simply dead and put in the grave. God is having fellowship with us and enjoying it while we are alive and being glorified in that fellowship, but then God takes us

God does not "take" us. We die.

and we die and God says, 'shucks' another one bites the dust and there is no more fellowship between them. That is just plain stupid

Stupid?

Isa 38:18) For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Psalm 6:5) For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?

Psalm 30:9)What profit is there in my death, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it tell of your faithfulness?

Psalm 115:17)The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.

and without understanding and those that believe that must not have any fellowship with Him. Anyone that has fellowship with the Father and the Son just knows in their spirit that it's error to believe such a thing.

It is error if you believe contrary to what the bible says.

Dead people are dead, and will be raised at one of the upcoming resurrections.

 

[Red33]

When we believe upon the Son, God justifies us and imputes His righteousness unto us. This righteousness is not suspended in the air that we latch onto with our faith, this righteousness is in Christ and our soul becomes the recipient of that righteousness. This is perfect righteousness and the only righteousness whereby we can be accepted in the beloved. That righteousness becomes our righteousness the same as His faith becomes our faith. The soul is that part of man that has been redeemed by the blood of Christ and grows in grace and knowledge of Christ. When the body sins, the soul cries out and confesses the sin and receives grace because God is faithful and just to forgive us. The soul experiences that grace and the heart becomes established in that grace little by little. The soul is the recipient of the virtues of God and the body simply experiences the benefits of that virtue. Though the outward man is perishing the inward man is being renewed daily. When the body dies it goes into the grave and the soul that has been redeemed, that has received God's imputed righteousness, that has grown in grace and knowledge of Christ and been a partaker of the virtues of God through a walk of faith, is translated instantly into heaven to be present with the Lord.

In heaven that soul, that magnifies God, will have a measure of light and glory before God's presence and will take on the form a soul body of inner light, like at the mount when Moses and Elijah were transfigured before Peter, James and John. This soul body will put on and be clothed with incorruption and immortality at the resurrected when the dead in Christ shall rise and together with those that are alive meet the Lord in the air to ever be with the Lord. The soul body of those in heaven will meet with the body that is raised from the grave and will then put on immortality and be glorified and fashioned like unto His glorified body. The believer will then have inner translucent light in their soul body and outer light in their new glorified body. Christ will present this body of believers to Himself as His glorious church and bride not having spot, or wrinkle or any such thing, holy and without blemish. It will be a perfect bride having His perfect righteousness.

Is it any wonder that the death of His saints are precious in His sight (Ps 116:15)?

 

[shroom2]

When we believe upon the Son, God justifies us and imputes His righteousness unto us. This righteousness is not suspended in the air that we latch onto with our faith, this righteousness is in Christ and our soul becomes the recipient of that righteousness. This is perfect righteousness and the only righteousness whereby we can be accepted in the beloved. That righteousness becomes our righteousness the same as His faith becomes our faith. The soul is that part of man that has been redeemed by the blood of Christ and grows in grace and knowledge of Christ. When the body sins, the soul cries out and confesses the sin and receives grace because God is faithful and just to forgive us. The soul experiences that grace and the heart becomes established in that grace little by little. The soul is the recipient of the virtues of God and the body simply experiences the benefits of that virtue. Though the outward man is perishing the inward man is being renewed daily. When the body dies it goes into the grave and the soul that has been redeemed, that has received God's imputed righteousness, that has grown in grace and knowledge of Christ and been a partaker of the virtues of God through a walk of faith, is translated instantly into heaven to be present with the Lord.

In heaven that soul, that magnifies God, will have a measure of light and glory before God's presence and will take on the form a soul body of inner light, like at the mount when Moses and Elijah were transfigured before Peter, James and John. This soul body will put on and be clothed with incorruption and immortality at the resurrected when the dead in Christ shall rise and together with those that are alive meet the Lord in the air to ever be with the Lord. The soul body of those in heaven will meet with the body that is raised from the grave and will then put on immortality and be glorified and fashioned like unto His glorified body. The believer will then have inner translucent light in their soul body and outer light in their new glorified body. Christ will present this body of believers to Himself as His glorious church and bride not having spot, or wrinkle or any such thing, holy and without blemish. It will be a perfect bride having His perfect righteousness.

Is it any wonder that the death of His saints are precious in His sight (Ps 116:15)?

God does not like it when people die. It COSTS him something because the dead cannot praise Him, or do anything else for Him. Our souls do not "magnify God" after we die. Dead means DEAD. No life. Gone.

If we die before Christ returns, we have the hope of being raised FROM THE DEAD.

 

[Red33]

God does not like it when people die. It COSTS him something because the dead cannot praise Him, or do anything else for Him. Our souls do not "magnify God" after we die. Dead means DEAD. No life. Gone.

If we die before Christ returns, we have the hope of being raised FROM THE DEAD.

You keep referring to the word 'precious' as being costly in the sense that is cost Him something, when costly refers to value and that which in honorable and appraised in God's sight. You have it wrong and you need to get it right. Concerning the soul of the righteous you have a 'deadbeat' doctrine because you refuse to separate the soul from the body at death. The other strange things about your doctrine is that you believe the soul is not eternal and will be terminated with the body at the second death. This takes the power of God's salvation away from the gospel and makes the cross and sacrifice of Christ of little value and removes the conviction of God's justice when all sin was paid for through His death. Under your doctrine if a sinner rejects Christ and does not care about eternal life, they have an out through the second death and will no longer exist, just as if they had never been born. You are without understanding concerning the wicked dead in relationship to God's justice and the eternal damnation that they will face as a consequence of not believing in the righteousness of God. Your doctrine corrupts the purity of the gospel and promotes hell and the lake of fire as a terminator of the soul and body and as a viable alternative to eternal life. That is passive aggression in your understanding that has no place in the doctrine of Christ.

 

[shroom2]

You keep referring to the word 'precious' as being costly in the sense that is cost Him something, when costly refers to value and that which in honorable and appraised in God's sight. You have it wrong and you need to get it right.

I submit that the opposite is true. You have it wrong and need to get it right.

Concerning the soul of the righteous you have a 'deadbeat' doctrine because you refuse to separate the soul from the body at death.

That is because that is NOT what happens. We do not separate into various parts when we die, with some dying and some living on.

The other strange things about your doctrine is that you believe the soul is not eternal and will be terminated with the body at the second death.

Soul is not eternal. Soul is simply that which gives life to the body. Without it, you die. Without a body, you die. Without either one, you die. Those who will be cast into the lake of fire will be destroyed.

This takes the power of God's salvation away from the gospel and makes the cross and sacrifice of Christ of little value and removes the conviction of God's justice when all sin was paid for through His death.

It absolutely does not. Without the work of Christ, nobody could be saved. But because of what he did, and because we choose to believe on him, we are saved. We will participate in the millennial kingdom, and have everlasting life. If we die before Christ returns, when he comes we will be raised (1 Cor 15 and 1 Thes 4).

Under your doctrine if a sinner rejects Christ and does not care about eternal life, they have an out through the second death and will no longer exist, just as if they had never been born.

Right. They will be destroyed forever. Annihilated. Gone.

You are without understanding concerning the wicked dead in relationship to God's justice and the eternal damnation that they will face as a consequence of not believing in the righteousness of God.

You do not understand that God is just. There is no crime worthy of eternal torture. Their eternal damnation will be the second death. Permanent death. Everlasting death. As I mentioned before, even the devil himself will be destroyed (Ezekiel 28, I think).

Your doctrine corrupts the purity of the gospel and promotes hell and the lake of fire as a terminator of the soul and body and as a viable alternative to eternal life.

Do you believe death is insufficient punishment? Death is the end.

That is passive aggression in your understanding that has no place in the doctrine of Christ.

How is it "passive aggression"?

It is the truth. Dead people die.

Why do you think God expressly forbids attempting to contact the dead? Because dead people are dead, and if you think you're talking to your grammy, it's not her, but a devil spirit impersonating her.

 

[resurrection33]

When we die, we pass on to the resurrection, I believe.