What if Daniel did have a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks?
- Thread starter Dave-L
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According to the Gospels and secular history a lot of people were looking for the Messiah before Jesus' birth so why would it be so strange that the Magi were looking for him. Apart from the supernatural aspect of the details ie a star wandering around the
sky the Magi were probably Zoroastrian Priests from Parthia steeped in Astronomy and with some knowledge of OT Prophecy.
Messiah means anointed one. In the OT Hebrew kings were called Messiahs. They were anointed with oil at the start of their reign The oil represented the Holy Spirit. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit at the start of his ministry He didn't have to wait
2000 years to become the Messiah. When Herod asked where the King of the Jews (Messiah) was to be born his advisers knew very
well it was in Bethlehem because the Old Testament said it was.
sky the Magi were probably Zoroastrian Priests from Parthia steeped in Astronomy and with some knowledge of OT Prophecy.
Messiah means anointed one. In the OT Hebrew kings were called Messiahs. They were anointed with oil at the start of their reign The oil represented the Holy Spirit. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit at the start of his ministry He didn't have to wait
2000 years to become the Messiah. When Herod asked where the King of the Jews (Messiah) was to be born his advisers knew very
well it was in Bethlehem because the Old Testament said it was.
Thank you brother, so much.
I agree, after a reread of the comment you responded to, as usual, I realized I didn't go far enough in making my point and saying how knowing others hold a different view on this particular topic does not make me "other" them, or draw an "us/you" line in the sand over it. To be honest personally, I've seen the vast majority of indignation come from that side this way, now again "I" don't speak to enough of a sample size for that to mean anything at all, but honestly I only see hostility flowing overwhelmingly from one direction in this debate. It makes people mad in my experience, and whats even more scary to me it the seeming lack of TRUTH seeking no matter where it lands you. People have literally told me "I've studied this for 30 years and you CAN'T change my mind!!!" Really. Then act as if their moral superiority excuses them from even discussing it with the likes of low scum like me. There are WAY to many instances where people just run from these hard questions I ask about the "3rd temple", they just say "you're mean and I won't talk to you for attacking me", when if you go back and read the conversation you see how I went out of my way to keep things from sounding like an attack with stuff like, "I understand your view here and why you hold it but....", and "I know I'm shooting strait, but please don't read any of this as me being ugly", and stuff like this because I understand how touch this subject is.
Anyway all that to explain a bit deeper to you how much I appreciate your comment. I know it's simple and strait forward, but Jesus used this today for me, it honestly teared me up because I don't get this much here and I just feel the same way. I honestly love you brother and if there is anything I can ever do for you please ask. I'm in the Florida panhandle if there's something you need I can get to fast.
I agree, after a reread of the comment you responded to, as usual, I realized I didn't go far enough in making my point and saying how knowing others hold a different view on this particular topic does not make me "other" them, or draw an "us/you" line in the sand over it. To be honest personally, I've seen the vast majority of indignation come from that side this way, now again "I" don't speak to enough of a sample size for that to mean anything at all, but honestly I only see hostility flowing overwhelmingly from one direction in this debate. It makes people mad in my experience, and whats even more scary to me it the seeming lack of TRUTH seeking no matter where it lands you. People have literally told me "I've studied this for 30 years and you CAN'T change my mind!!!" Really. Then act as if their moral superiority excuses them from even discussing it with the likes of low scum like me. There are WAY to many instances where people just run from these hard questions I ask about the "3rd temple", they just say "you're mean and I won't talk to you for attacking me", when if you go back and read the conversation you see how I went out of my way to keep things from sounding like an attack with stuff like, "I understand your view here and why you hold it but....", and "I know I'm shooting strait, but please don't read any of this as me being ugly", and stuff like this because I understand how touch this subject is.
Anyway all that to explain a bit deeper to you how much I appreciate your comment. I know it's simple and strait forward, but Jesus used this today for me, it honestly teared me up because I don't get this much here and I just feel the same way. I honestly love you brother and if there is anything I can ever do for you please ask. I'm in the Florida panhandle if there's something you need I can get to fast.
You didn't call names, but the people on your side did, DC by far the worst offender, jumps strait into the conversation calling people ignorant who don't believe like him, so you, by far aren't the worse one I'm speaking of about name calling, but you did pull the "you're attacking me, so I won't talk to you", excuse to run and hide from the truth about a 3rd temple that was facing you down. Like you said I was talking about a whole group of people at the same time, right? You say you stand on this pre trib stuff, but have to run and hide from some questions?
Should be a huge red flag for what you're claiming.
I have to be honest I don't ever remember arguing about the time gap at all with anyone ever. Please refresh my memory and point me to where I did, if I did. With you I was always on the "3rd temple dilemma", and still am because you DID NOT answer that at all. You ran from it crying I was mean when I wasn't. Got an answer now? I'd still love to hear it since you want to come bow up at me. Answer my question, not accuse me of avoiding you explanation about a subject I've NEVER debated in detail at all here, that I can remember. If I'm wrong then I will apologize and then go set a Doctors appointment to see why I can't remember some things. Also point out this time gap in Jesus words here "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. "
Take your time.
Should be a huge red flag for what you're claiming.
I have to be honest I don't ever remember arguing about the time gap at all with anyone ever. Please refresh my memory and point me to where I did, if I did. With you I was always on the "3rd temple dilemma", and still am because you DID NOT answer that at all. You ran from it crying I was mean when I wasn't. Got an answer now? I'd still love to hear it since you want to come bow up at me. Answer my question, not accuse me of avoiding you explanation about a subject I've NEVER debated in detail at all here, that I can remember. If I'm wrong then I will apologize and then go set a Doctors appointment to see why I can't remember some things. Also point out this time gap in Jesus words here "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. "
Take your time.
One last thing because you are an accuser, please you said. "Yet here you and Dave are condemning us as preaching a different gospel"
Okay here and now with no distractions. Please show me where I have ever condemned you for preaching a false gospel. You just said "ME" and Dave did this. I'm calling you out right now. I'll not call you a liar, but you're sadly mistaken here and I want you to admit it or show me where I ever say that. If I need to take you back to where you ran from the 3rd temple question I can right now, but if you can't show me where I did what you're accusing me of, then admit you're wrong at least. (something I've never seen you do in humility)
Okay here and now with no distractions. Please show me where I have ever condemned you for preaching a false gospel. You just said "ME" and Dave did this. I'm calling you out right now. I'll not call you a liar, but you're sadly mistaken here and I want you to admit it or show me where I ever say that. If I need to take you back to where you ran from the 3rd temple question I can right now, but if you can't show me where I did what you're accusing me of, then admit you're wrong at least. (something I've never seen you do in humility)
E
again
1. You said I was deceived
2 you have said I stand on nothing
3. You are agreeing with a person who has openly states we do not believe in the atoning sacrifice of Christ. Thuss in essence, we are lost.
So how else should I understand you?
If you do not believe I am lost. then forgive me, I mispoke
But can you please respond to your attack which was uncalled for about my belief standing on nthing, and how decieved I am? and how. If salvation is not in question, it even matters?
1. You said I was deceived
2 you have said I stand on nothing
3. You are agreeing with a person who has openly states we do not believe in the atoning sacrifice of Christ. Thuss in essence, we are lost.
So how else should I understand you?
If you do not believe I am lost. then forgive me, I mispoke
But can you please respond to your attack which was uncalled for about my belief standing on nthing, and how decieved I am? and how. If salvation is not in question, it even matters?
Saying you're deceived isn't the nicest way to word it, but is that condemning you for preaching a different gospel? Let me get that for you, NOPE! Are you that fragile that in a conversation between two men, one saying "you're deceived" in a debate where one of us has to be deceived, stating this really hurts your feelings to the point you can't even carry on the conversation? I honestly don't think it was my "attacks" you ran from. This stuff I'm saying makes sense, and please know right now that I do not agree with the way DaveL handles himself here sometimes, and I've always liked you, but this has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.
When I asked you, "where do you think the AoD will take place?", and "is scripture "closed" or does God still speak to us in that way?" You did not plant your feet and stand on what you believe, you called me too mean to talk to and side stepped the questions never to revisit them.
These are VITAL question, and since I started asking these questions here on CC, for the first time in my life people are not standing on a "future 3rd temple", all of a sudden it's "maybe it means this, and it could mean our bodies are the temples now,,and... bla,bla,bla." So when I say you have nothing to stand on, what I'm saying is that you won't clearly state exactly what you believe, and stand on it. It's like you don't want to have it picked apart the same way you guys do this view. We should lay ALL of them on the table, we're seeking truth, not to be right. This was what I meant, and I will pay you the respect that when asked a question I WILL stand on my view and answer to the best of my knowledge, or I start researching it every time, and know I hold the less popular view that even seems to sometimes enrage people (no talking about you), and have even people I would have called friend reject me with curses. But I'm on a rock brother, His rock and I can not deny Him, I know you understand, and please know this is not saying you aren't, I know you're doing the same thing, but from what I've experienced through our conversations is you're actually a little closed minded, and you're so certain that YOU are right, that you don't even hear out an opposing view. I just don't think that's wise, but again who am I.
I don't know, man, after typing all this I don't even want this to be a "clash" thing anymore. I'm sorry for all the things I said to offend you. Seriously. I'd love to honestly talk about this subject with you more here, or in private, but if we do just know that I'm only speaking about the subject matter, and will do so with a much lighter tone, and less defensively. All this crap aside, I love you brother and I'm sorry for throwing my character flaws at you. I honestly pray you and your whole family have a blessed day growing closer to our King. Amen.
When I asked you, "where do you think the AoD will take place?", and "is scripture "closed" or does God still speak to us in that way?" You did not plant your feet and stand on what you believe, you called me too mean to talk to and side stepped the questions never to revisit them.
These are VITAL question, and since I started asking these questions here on CC, for the first time in my life people are not standing on a "future 3rd temple", all of a sudden it's "maybe it means this, and it could mean our bodies are the temples now,,and... bla,bla,bla." So when I say you have nothing to stand on, what I'm saying is that you won't clearly state exactly what you believe, and stand on it. It's like you don't want to have it picked apart the same way you guys do this view. We should lay ALL of them on the table, we're seeking truth, not to be right. This was what I meant, and I will pay you the respect that when asked a question I WILL stand on my view and answer to the best of my knowledge, or I start researching it every time, and know I hold the less popular view that even seems to sometimes enrage people (no talking about you), and have even people I would have called friend reject me with curses. But I'm on a rock brother, His rock and I can not deny Him, I know you understand, and please know this is not saying you aren't, I know you're doing the same thing, but from what I've experienced through our conversations is you're actually a little closed minded, and you're so certain that YOU are right, that you don't even hear out an opposing view. I just don't think that's wise, but again who am I.
I don't know, man, after typing all this I don't even want this to be a "clash" thing anymore. I'm sorry for all the things I said to offend you. Seriously. I'd love to honestly talk about this subject with you more here, or in private, but if we do just know that I'm only speaking about the subject matter, and will do so with a much lighter tone, and less defensively. All this crap aside, I love you brother and I'm sorry for throwing my character flaws at you. I honestly pray you and your whole family have a blessed day growing closer to our King. Amen.
E
its obvious you have not been listening to things I have said.
Maybe it means this or that?
The bible states a temple wil be standing, when the man of sin, or the "price who is to come" will place an abomination of desolation" in the Holy Place.
Now remeber, Jesus said, When you see it.
So it is not going to be something which happens behind closed doors.
Its not going to be hearsay (I head some leader put something in the holy place)
It is going to be a literal object. That according to the law is unclean, and it will be witnessed by all.
This has not happened yet. Only one time in history are we told of an abomination which causes desolation, and that is when Antiochus epiphanies sacrificed a pig (ceremonially unclean) in the holy place.
Yet not everyone could see that. And nothing like it occured in 70 AD. and even if it did. Not everyone could SEE IT.
when you asked me those questions?
Can you repost those quotes where you asked me and I did not answer you So I can see in context what your saying?
and while your at it. Make sure you post all the questions I have asked you and others also. And your responses to me?
is that fair?
ps, the reason I have asked you to show me, Is because I have answered many times exactly where the AOD will take place. In fact, if you read my response above, You will see I answered it again.
as for the second two questions. They are open ended questions. You have to be more specific.
But that is beside the point. You made an accusation. Now please prove where you asked me these questions, and I refused to answer
Thank you
Maybe it means this or that?
The bible states a temple wil be standing, when the man of sin, or the "price who is to come" will place an abomination of desolation" in the Holy Place.
Now remeber, Jesus said, When you see it.
So it is not going to be something which happens behind closed doors.
Its not going to be hearsay (I head some leader put something in the holy place)
It is going to be a literal object. That according to the law is unclean, and it will be witnessed by all.
This has not happened yet. Only one time in history are we told of an abomination which causes desolation, and that is when Antiochus epiphanies sacrificed a pig (ceremonially unclean) in the holy place.
Yet not everyone could see that. And nothing like it occured in 70 AD. and even if it did. Not everyone could SEE IT.
when you asked me those questions?
Can you repost those quotes where you asked me and I did not answer you So I can see in context what your saying?
and while your at it. Make sure you post all the questions I have asked you and others also. And your responses to me?
is that fair?
ps, the reason I have asked you to show me, Is because I have answered many times exactly where the AOD will take place. In fact, if you read my response above, You will see I answered it again.
as for the second two questions. They are open ended questions. You have to be more specific.
But that is beside the point. You made an accusation. Now please prove where you asked me these questions, and I refused to answer
Thank you
Okay cool. Sorry for all the misunderstandings. So here we are at "0". I will refer to nothing I've said, nor anything you've said.
I would like to know if you believe the abomination of desolation is going to happen in Gods temple, and let us be very clear here "God's temple" is the temple that God commands built for Him to dwell in on earth with us. In Daniel this is only described as "the holy place" where the sacrifices are offered. This is the "God's temple" I am talking about. Do you believe this is where the AoD will happen? If not then please explain to me exactly what you believe the AoD will be. Can we just start here slow?
I would like to know if you believe the abomination of desolation is going to happen in Gods temple, and let us be very clear here "God's temple" is the temple that God commands built for Him to dwell in on earth with us. In Daniel this is only described as "the holy place" where the sacrifices are offered. This is the "God's temple" I am talking about. Do you believe this is where the AoD will happen? If not then please explain to me exactly what you believe the AoD will be. Can we just start here slow?
This makes absolutely no sense. If you are suggesting that the resurrection of Christ ushered in the 70th week of Daniel, then that is PURE FANTASY. Firstly there is no mention of Christ's resurrection in Daniel 9, and secondly, the Church Age began after the resurrection, NOT the reign of the Antichrist and the establishment of the Abomination of Desolation.
What we see in these threads on Bible prophecy is a serious lack of comprehension about future events, because those posting have not really studied the matter in depth (meaning taking all the OT prophecies from Genesis to Malachi into account).
What we see in these threads on Bible prophecy is a serious lack of comprehension about future events, because those posting have not really studied the matter in depth (meaning taking all the OT prophecies from Genesis to Malachi into account).
E
Thank you. I like this
I believe as Jesus said, and as Daniel prophesied
That an AOD will occur in the JEWISH temple. Putting an end to sacrifice and burnt offering. (remember, Jesus himself called the temple in his day his fathers house. Even though the sacrificial system had long since been conducted in Sin, by a people who would reject him, and would be destroyed in the near future)
I also believe this will occur in the middle of some 7 year covenant made between a future prince and as daniel says "Many"
I also believe, As Jesus said, When we see this, There will be a great tribulation, such as never has been seen before and will not be seen after. This tribulation will be so severe, that ALL life on Earth (all flesh) will be threatened. It will be "Stopped" by the return of Christ himself. who returns as he said, For the sake of the elect.
I believe as Jesus said, and as Daniel prophesied
That an AOD will occur in the JEWISH temple. Putting an end to sacrifice and burnt offering. (remember, Jesus himself called the temple in his day his fathers house. Even though the sacrificial system had long since been conducted in Sin, by a people who would reject him, and would be destroyed in the near future)
I also believe this will occur in the middle of some 7 year covenant made between a future prince and as daniel says "Many"
I also believe, As Jesus said, When we see this, There will be a great tribulation, such as never has been seen before and will not be seen after. This tribulation will be so severe, that ALL life on Earth (all flesh) will be threatened. It will be "Stopped" by the return of Christ himself. who returns as he said, For the sake of the elect.