What if God had written IN STONE?

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studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,616
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#42
Can one live under the Law and live under Grace at the same time -?????????????????------

personally I don't think so ---

you can try and mix the 2 but that won't work either ---as God Hates mixture ----so you have to be on the side of the Law or the side of Grace ------you can't be under the Curse and Blessings at the same time -----you are either under one or the other---





The laws which numbered 613 involved God who had His part and the Jewish Nation only who had their part -----God rewarded the Blessing to anyone who kept the Laws -----God rewarded the Curse to anyone one who couldn't keep the laws ---

So the Jewish nation was constantly under the curse and Spiritual death as no human could keep the laws ---and that remains the same today -----


The New Covenant has 0ne participant -----God ---He accomplished all for us ---all we have to do is receive what God did for us ------the Blessingasand Spiritual life


2 corinthians 3 ----this is about the law and the New Covenant ------

An Agreement With Greater Glory

7 The old agreement[a] that brought death, written with words on stone, came with God’s glory. In fact, the face of Moses was so bright with glory (a glory that was ending) that the people of Israel could not continue looking at his face.

8 So surely the new agreement that comes from the life-giving Spirit has even more glory.

9 This is what I mean: That old agreement judged people guilty of sin, but it had glory. So surely the new agreement that makes people right with God has much greater glory.

10 That old agreement had glory. But it really loses its glory when it is compared to the much greater glory of the new agreement.

11 If the agreement that was brought to an end came with glory, then the agreement that never ends has much greater glory.

12 We are so sure of this hope that we can speak very openly.

13 We are not like Moses, who put a covering over his face. He covered his face so that the people of Israel would not see it. The glory was disappearing, and Moses did not want them to see it end.

14 But their minds were closed. And even today, when those people read the writings of the old agreement,[b] that same covering hides the meaning. That covering has not been removed for them. It is taken away only through Christ.

15 Yes, even today, when they read the Law of Moses, there is a covering over their minds.

16 But when someone changes and follows the Lord, that covering is taken away.

The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

18 And our faces are not covered. We all show the Lord’s glory, and we are being changed to be like him. This change in us brings more and more glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.


https://www.bibleref.com/2-Corinthi...s that "the letter,and condemns them to death.

2 Corinthians 3:6

ESV-------who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant,
not of the letter but of the Spirit.
For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Paul adds that "the letter" kills. In other words, those who attempt to follow the law discover that they are unable to follow the law. They discover in themselves the sinfulness that keeps them from obeying God and condemns them to death.

He put it this way in Romans 7:9–10, "I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me."

God's Spirit, on the other hand, truly gives life to those who trust in Christ under God's new covenant with all of humanity. God's Spirit comes to live with all who believe in Jesus. His presence becomes the evidence that we belong to God. Romans 8:11 says, "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you."

We choose ---the Law which we cannot keep and brings death or Grace through faith which bring life ---

1700505743074.jpeg
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,921
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47
#43
Oops, I had that backwards.

Paul wrote that the "law is holy" and the commandment is "holy and just and good".
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,826
13,449
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#44
God did not give the ten commandments to the nations, but only to Israel. Our relationship with God does not depend on compliance with the ten commandments (or anything else from within the Sinai covenant), but instead on faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#45
God did not give the ten commandments to the nations, but only to Israel. Our relationship with God does not depend on compliance with the ten commandments (or anything else from within the Sinai covenant), but instead on faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.
Jesus did, and do you follow Jesus?
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,305
630
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#46
What if God had written IN STONE?


He did.

The 10 Commandments are now, and always will be, applicable to all professed Christians and they are quite literally the very foundation of the Christian Faith.
Nope.

The FOUNDATION of the Christian Faith is FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of JESUS on the Cross. (Isa 53:10,11)

NOBODY successfully keeps the 10 commandments perfectly, and nobody (Except 1) ever will.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#47
Braweh said:
The 10 Commandments are now, and always will be, applicable to all professed Christians and they are quite literally the very foundation of the Christian Faith.
not the Foundation, but if we are striving to be like Jesus, they are indeed the Essential Guidelines to be more like Christ.
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#49
Paul affirms in Romans 7 that the "commandment is holy" and that the law is "holy, and just and good". However, he realized that he could not keep the law perfectly. Paul had to rely on the righteousness of Christ, who fulfilled the law (cf. Matthew 5).

John said that Jesus is our "Advocate with the Father" for when we do sin.

We obey Christ because we love Him (with the help of the Holy Spirit within us). However, on this side of life, we cannot live totally sinless. The Scriptures say that salvation is not by works but by faith.
Agreed.

But we're still expected to obey the 10 Commandments.

If we weren't, we wouldn't have the record of Jesus' followers obeying the 4th Commandment, observing the Sabbath, after His Crucifixion.

We don't have to obey them perfectly just as James says in James 3:2.

But there's a huge difference in striving to obey and adopting the belief that the 10 Commandments don't apply to Christians at all.

That's what the modern churches have been teaching for probably the last century and it is not at all what Christ, or the Bible, teaches.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,049
8,728
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#50
That's not what Jesus taught.
Hmmm…. You don’t say….
Matthew 22:36-40

New King James Version
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”


Galatians 5:14

New King James Version
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,929
1,258
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#51
If we weren't, we wouldn't have the record of Jesus' followers obeying the 4th Commandment, observing the Sabbath, after His Crucifixion.

There is no such record. Instead, we have in Acts where Paul preaches on a Sunday and the early church following this example and still doing so to this day. We also have the record of Christ and the disciples (who lived at the time under the first covenant) breaking the Sabbath but being blameless (not guilty of sin) because there are things that could be done even on the Sabbath when it was needed that under normal conditions would have been sinful.
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#52
NOBODY successfully keeps the 10 commandments perfectly, and nobody (Except 1) ever will.
Correct.

The 10 Commandments are still to be kept by all who love the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ.

Feel free to attempt to prove any of these wrong using Scripture:

1. Jesus taught the 10 Commandments.
2. Jesus obeyed the 10 Commandments.
3. Jesus' followers obeyed them after the Crucifixion.
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#54
Hmmm…. You don’t say….
Matthew 22:36-40

New King James Version
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”


Galatians 5:14

New King James Version
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
He who obeys and teaches the 10 Commandments is called greatest in heaven.
Matt. 5:19

If your righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees, who taught the 10 Commandments but never obeyed them, you have no chance of entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt. 5:20

Jesus' words.

Not mine.

How many preachers do you know today who even teach the 10 Commandments, much less even attempt to keep them?
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#55
There is no such record.
See?

That's exactly the problem.

So many do not know their Bible.

Luke 23:54-56 indisputably shows Jesus' followers keeping the Sabbath Commandment after His death on the Cross.

And, for the record, Paul was a keeper of the Law.
Acts 21:24
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,694
5,575
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#56
See?

That's exactly the problem.

So many do not know their Bible.

Luke 23:54-56 indisputably shows Jesus' followers keeping the Sabbath Commandment after His death on the Cross.

And, for the record, Paul was a keeper of the Law.
Acts 21:24
One would expect a period of transition between the old covenant into the new covenant. And that's what we find in the book of Acts. There was still revelation to be given.
This is one of the purposes of the book of Hebrews. But as Gentiles were increasingly populating the church, look at what was required of them. So to establish your doctrine from what is originally accepted without considering how things evolved is disingenuous. What Jesus did was under the OT law to fulfill all righteousness. Who believes this is what they are doing?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,929
1,258
113
#57
See?

That's exactly the problem.

So many do not know their Bible.

Luke 23:54-56 indisputably shows Jesus' followers keeping the Sabbath Commandment after His death on the Cross.
That's the same day. Hardly evidence. I submit the entire history of the Christian church, which did not and does not keep the Saturday Sabbath.


And, for the record, Paul was a keeper of the Law.
Acts 21:24
No he wasn't.

Let's actually hear from Paul:


Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

So we being dead to the law frees us from the law as many scriptures affirm. The old law is dead, we are then in response dead to that law and free to re-marry a new husband and law...the law of Christ of the new covenant being no longer bound to the old dead law.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,058
518
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#58
Correct.

The 10 Commandments are still to be kept by all who love the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ.

Feel free to attempt to prove any of these wrong using Scripture:

1. Jesus taught the 10 Commandments.
2. Jesus obeyed the 10 Commandments.
3. Jesus' followers obeyed them after the Crucifixion.
Wow, your far more gone than I first realized. What planet are you from, Pluto? Of course the 10 commandments are to be kept, but keeping them will NOT get you saved, justified or born again lost one.

Galatians 2:16-21, "nevertheless, knowing that a man is NOT justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and NOT by the works of the Law; since bt the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. Vs17, But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

Vs18, For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. Vs19, For through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God, Vs20, I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me. Vs21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.."

Here's a newsflash for you, born again Christians are above the Law. Now what is that suppose to mean? It means because born again Christians are NOT justified by the works of the Law, just like Galatians 2:16 states. And yes, Christians do sin, if we did not there would be no need for the Apostle John to write at 1 John 2:1, "If anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (Btw, how many persons are in this verse, one or two?)

Now, perhaps you can reconcile 1 John 2:4, with 1 John:3:6, Vs4, "The one who says, I have come to know Him, and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 3:6, "No one who abides in Him sins, no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him." How about it, Braweh, reconcile this apparent contradiction?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,305
630
113
#59
Agreed.

But we're still expected to obey the 10 Commandments.

If we weren't, we wouldn't have the record of Jesus' followers obeying the 4th Commandment, observing the Sabbath, after His Crucifixion.

We don't have to obey them perfectly just as James says in James 3:2.

But there's a huge difference in striving to obey and adopting the belief that the 10 Commandments don't apply to Christians at all.

That's what the modern churches have been teaching for probably the last century and it is not at all what Christ, or the Bible, teaches.
Well - it's STILL a pretty good idea to be good to your parents, not to steal your neighbor's wife, not to steal his stuff, not to LIE about him, and not to KILL him. Or don't you agree that THOSE commandments don't count any more???

The Christian's secret is that they've JUDGED THEMSELVES, and accepted god's imposition of DEATH to the "Old man of SIN", The 10 commandments are STILL, and always will be statements of God's WILL. so no problem with ANY of them, and when we break them, and CONFESS OUR SIN, then 1 John 1:9.
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#60
Wow, your far more gone than I first realized. What planet are you from, Pluto? Of course the 10 commandments are to be kept, but keeping them will NOT get you saved, justified or born again lost one.

Galatians 2:16-21, "nevertheless, knowing that a man is NOT justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and NOT by the works of the Law; since bt the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. Vs17, But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

Vs18, For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. Vs19, For through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God, Vs20, I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me. Vs21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.."

Here's a newsflash for you, born again Christians are above the Law. Now what is that suppose to mean? It means because born again Christians are NOT justified by the works of the Law, just like Galatians 2:16 states. And yes, Christians do sin, if we did not there would be no need for the Apostle John to write at 1 John 2:1, "If anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (Btw, how many persons are in this verse, one or two?)

Now, perhaps you can reconcile 1 John 2:4, with 1 John:3:6, Vs4, "The one who says, I have come to know Him, and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 3:6, "No one who abides in Him sins, no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him." How about it, Braweh, reconcile this apparent contradiction?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Nice.

None of that contradicted the 3 facts I presented.

Would you like to try again?

I'm from Earth.