What if you die before water baptism?

Kroogz · Jan 26, 2024

Abram was counted righteous years before Gen 15. Abram was saved way back in Mesopotamia. And took years before he actually followed any of The Lords commands....Abram waited until his father died before he did anything. Gen 15 is the Lord reminding Abram of his faith and of the Lord's promises. Abram was 75 before he finally gave up being a daddies boy so to speak.
Acts 7
1Then said the high priest, Are these things so? 2And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, 3And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee. 4Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. 5And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

Gen 11
31And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees,(Mesopotamia) to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there. 32And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.

SunshineGirl · Jan 26, 2024

Gideon300 said:

You've destroyed your own argument. "Whoever does not believe......." Nothing about baptism there.

The thief on the cross was not baptised. Jesus told him that he would be in paradise. That does not sound like condemnation to me.

By receiving Christ we are made to be children of God. John 1:12
Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus John 17:3
We are saved by grace. Ephesians 2:5 and 8
God puts us into Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30
The one who believes in Jesus will not perish. John 3:18

In Acts 8 we find the account of the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip the evangelist. Philip witnesses to him. It is obvious from the context that the eunuch believes. What would have happened if there was no water for the man to be baptised with? Do you really believe that the man was condemned until he was dunked? Salvation is what God does for us and not what we do for God.

We are crucified with Christ. So we are dead. What do you do with a dead body? You bury it. That's what baptism is about. Christians need to know that they are dead, buried and raised from the dead - the same as Christ because God includes us in Christ when we believe. Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:4.

What is the baptism Jesus spoke of? It's not water. We need to be baptised into Christ. This means far more than an intellectual acceptance of a fact. (Galatians 3:27). And who puts us into Christ? The Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Making salvation conditional on water baptism is illogical, puts the onus on man to save himself, denies the grace of God and cannot be justified by scripture. It makes God out to be unfair and unjust. That is the worst part of the false doctrine.

Amen to that 🥰

turbosixx · Jan 26, 2024

Moses_Young said:

I suggest to you, John 3 is before Jesus commanded baptism in the name of. The things Jesus said before His sacrifice He said looking forward to the building of His church. and on this rock I will build my church, Will build, future. Looking forward to Him being given all authority and being the Christ.
After He purchased the church with His blood, Acts 20:28, and before His ascension He tells the apostles “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
He then commands them to make disciples baptizing them in the name of the father, son and HS.

Before He put power in the blood, He said to believe but now there is power in the blood Jesus says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Now we know if the unbeliever gets baptized it means nothing because he is not a believer.

So, the question you pose is "what if the believer does not get baptized, is he saved". I suggest let's look and see what the bible tells us about this.

So Jesus sends the 12 out to preach the gospel and says Whoever believes(past tense) and is baptized(past tense) will be(future tense) saved, They go into Jerusalem and preach the gospel and 3,000 respond. Let's look and see if these 3,000 believers got baptized or if some did and some didn't. So, when they believed they asked, what shall we do and Peter says“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, He said every one of you. Then the bible tells us
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Exact same thing as Jesus said.
Whoever believes(1) and is baptized(2) will be saved(3),
41 So those who received his word(1) were baptized(2), and there were added(3) that day about three thousand souls.
One could believe that those who believed and did not get baptized were added but the bible doesn't say that. It says those who believed and were baptized were added. Just as Jesus said. I for one, do not want to trust my eternal destiny on what the bible doesn't say and what is contrary to what Jesus does say.

When we look at the subsequent conversions we see the same thing, believe and baptized in the name of Jesus.
If believe and be baptized is how Christians are converted, don't you think that is exactly what Satan is going to attack to confuse us. Just like he did in the garden. God said "you eat you will surely die". Satan said "you will not die". Jesus says "believes and is baptized will be saved" Man says "all you have to do is believe to be saved". I trust Jesus.

I suggest reading the story in 1 Kings 13. It's about a prophet God gave instructions to and then a man tells him what he wants to hear. When he did what the man said in direct contradiction to what God instructed, well I'm sure you can imagine what happened.

Moses_Young · Jan 26, 2024

Poinsetta said:

She has that huge photo underneath every post, so when it looks like the end, I just skim down. I must've thought it was part of the usual signature so skipped over it.

turbosixx · Jan 26, 2024

Gideon300 said:

Jesus said whoever does not believe will be condemned Doesn't matter what the none believer does, until he believes, he is condemned. Now what does Jesus say about whoever believes. That is what we are concerned with.
Whoever believes and is baptized(past tense) will be saved(future tense)

Gideon300 said:

Two things. 1) Do you agree today we are saved by the gospel? Did the thief hear the gospel? 2) This is before Jesus commanded baptism in the name of. We live after Jesus commanded make disciples baptizing them in the name of father, son and HS.

Gideon300 said:

This is looking forward to the Jesus' sacrifice and before He commanded baptism in the name of Jesus.

Gideon300 said:

This is written to Christians who have already been baptized in the name of Jesus, Acts 18:8; Acts 19:1-5.

Gideon300 said:

If hypotheticals is how you determine what is truth, then we have nothing further to talk about. I will not trust my eternal destiny on speculation.

Gideon300 said:

I suggest taking a closer look at Romans 6. It says IF we have been buried with Him. IF is conditional.
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? All of us who leaves out those who were not baptized.
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, Does the bible tell us there is another way to die with Christ.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Gideon300 said:

If it's not water, then why did the eunuch say here is water and why did Philip baptize him in water.
Also, Peter sure seemed to think baptism in the name of Jesus is water.
47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Gideon300 said:

Yes, the HS puts us into Christ but who does He put in. The bible makes it clear who the HS puts into Christ.
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Those who believed were baptized and were added.

As for 1 Corinthians 12:13. Paul is writing to the Christians at Corinth. Were the Corinthians baptized in the name of Jesus?

Gideon300 said:

Jesus is the one who commanded baptism, not man.
Jesus is the one who said Whoever believes (past tense) and is baptized (past tense) will be (future tense) saved,

Moses_Young · Jan 26, 2024

turbosixx said:

You're avoiding the question. We're not answering a question about whether believers should be baptised - they should be. The thread is about if a believer died before being baptised, would he be saved. The answer is yes, because our works - including baptism - don't save us.

turbosixx said:

You're still not answering the right question. I don't think anyone here is arguing believers shouldn't be baptised. They should be. What we are arguing is that baptism doesn't save anyone. Paul wrote a letter to the Galatians, that they shouldn't practice circumcision, because it isn't required for salvation. But he also circumcised Timothy because he was a Jew. Baptism is, like circumcision was, an act of obedience. But elevating it to the status of a saving work is a damnable heresy, in my view, as Jesus is the only One who saves.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Jan 26, 2024

Moses_Young said:

I like posting a random emoji at the end of my posts so that there's some space between what I wrote and that huge photo underneath!

🏂

studentoftheword · Jan 26, 2024

turbosixx said:

NO ------you are saved By Faith in what Jesus accomplished by shedding His Blood ---dying on the cross and being resurrected ------

If the Gospel saves you all people who just hear the Gospel would be saved and that is False Doctrine ----

God first has to draw the Person -----that is give them ACCESS to unveil their Ears . Eyes and Mind so they can hear and comprehend -----that is Receive the Gospel -------so that saving Faith is then inbirthed in the Person ----and with the right Faith being inbirthed in the person they Believe the Gospel and are Saved ------

Greek word for Drawn

Lexicon
helkó: to drag
Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

HELPS word-Studies
1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.

An unbeliever reads the Gospel but Satan has blinded their minds to grasp it rightly and their eyes and ears are veiled so they do see or hear the real message of the Gospel -------they have not the right Faith to be saved -----

The Gospel doesn't save us ------what the Gospel inbirths in us Saves us

Baptism by the LIVING WATER ---WHO IS THE HOLY SPIRIT saves you ---

Baptism by being bunked in a pool and coming up from the water itself is today used as a profession of your Faith --------AFTER ---------you have been Baptised by the Living Water ----The Holy Spirit --who has changed your Corrupt Spirit to and Incorrupt Spirit so your Heaven Bound ------

Your Baptised in WATER ----THe Holy Spirit is Likened unto LIVING WATER

Wansvic · Jan 26, 2024

Moses_Young said:

God brings about the reality He promised when man obeys God's command:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41

crossnote · Jan 26, 2024

If I died before water baptism, I would simply miss getting wet.

studentoftheword · Jan 26, 2024

studentoftheword said:

Just clarifying this statement ------I made
so they do see or hear the real message of the Gospel -------they have not the right Faith to be saved

Should read -----so they DO NOT see or hear the real message of the Gospel-------

YWPMI · Jan 26, 2024

Romans 10: 9 That if you shalt confess with your mouth the Lord Yeshua, and shalt believe in your heart that God has raised Him (Yeshua) from the dead, you shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.

Wansvic · Jan 26, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Well the references in the nt about Abraham bekieving and being accounted as righteous was about believing what God said it’s directly coming from here

“And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All those references in the nt are referring to that he believes what God said to him and God credited to him as righteousness that’s all I’m saying abrahan didn’t just say “ I believe God exists “ he hears and believes Gods word to him

air wasn’t as if Abraham was a disobedient person to begin with he already showed his faith in his actions from the first mention of him in scripture

“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: ( instruction )

and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. ( resulting promise )

(Abraham’s faith in action ) So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can see this in the nt

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abraham was always a faithful man he always heard what God said to him and accepted and believed it and then acted upon it

Would Abraham get baptized if God told him this ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15

Either he said that or he didn’t the one thing about faith is it comes from here

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abraham always believed what God told him his actions followed

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God called him righteous because he believed what God told him and followed in faith

baptism is a simple statement from God sent to all creatures of earth some won’t accept it some will but that’s basically what he said right ?

Preach the gospel to all creatures in tbe world . whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved whoever doesn’t believe will be damned

i think it’s better for Christian’s to just share the things he said will save people but I mean I’m just a guy with an opinion like the rest of you so doesn’t mean I’m right

What you present is not merely opinion it is the truth as revealed in scripture. And I for one appreciate that you continue to share that truth. Thank you!

Jimbone · Jan 26, 2024

turbosixx said:

I suggest to you, John 3 is before Jesus commanded baptism in the name of. The things Jesus said before His sacrifice He said looking forward to the building of His church. and on this rock I will build my church, Will build, future. Looking forward to Him being given all authority and being the Christ.
After He purchased the church with His blood, Acts 20:28, and before His ascension He tells the apostles “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
He then commands them to make disciples baptizing them in the name of the father, son and HS.

Before He put power in the blood, He said to believe but now there is power in the blood Jesus says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Now we know if the unbeliever gets baptized it means nothing because he is not a believer.

So, the question you pose is "what if the believer does not get baptized, is he saved". I suggest let's look and see what the bible tells us about this.

So Jesus sends the 12 out to preach the gospel and says Whoever believes(past tense) and is baptized(past tense) will be(future tense) saved, They go into Jerusalem and preach the gospel and 3,000 respond. Let's look and see if these 3,000 believers got baptized or if some did and some didn't. So, when they believed they asked, what shall we do and Peter says“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, He said every one of you. Then the bible tells us
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Exact same thing as Jesus said.
Whoever believes(1) and is baptized(2) will be saved(3),
41 So those who received his word(1) were baptized(2), and there were added(3) that day about three thousand souls.
One could believe that those who believed and did not get baptized were added but the bible doesn't say that. It says those who believed and were baptized were added. Just as Jesus said. I for one, do not want to trust my eternal destiny on what the bible doesn't say and what is contrary to what Jesus does say.

When we look at the subsequent conversions we see the same thing, believe and baptized in the name of Jesus.
If believe and be baptized is how Christians are converted, don't you think that is exactly what Satan is going to attack to confuse us. Just like he did in the garden. God said "you eat you will surely die". Satan said "you will not die". Jesus says "believes and is baptized will be saved" Man says "all you have to do is believe to be saved". I trust Jesus.

I suggest reading the story in 1 Kings 13. It's about a prophet God gave instructions to and then a man tells him what he wants to hear. When he did what the man said in direct contradiction to what God instructed, well I'm sure you can imagine what happened.

But what about us who were spiritually born again before we did what His word lead us to do, and were baptized? I KNOW I was saved before I was baptized, how does your your equation hold up to this? I was knees on the ground broken with no hope, spiritually dead when He granted me repentance and I realized "I can't do this anymore", and by His blood and sacrifice, my spirit was resurrected and I was reconciled to our Creator. Made brand new overnight with all new priorities and desirers. I was born again and had not been baptized yet. Once I was saved I went to be baptized first opportunity, but I was 100% SAVED before that happen for sure. how can this be if what you say is true?

Pilgrimshope · Jan 26, 2024

Wansvic said:

I mostly just try to quote scripture because I dont know if some have heard it ….I don’t mean that in a bad way I mean it literally I think faith comes by hearing the truth meaning what’s written I believe that he said those things and sent messengers filled with his spirit to say those other things afterwards and believe a lot of people never hear it but They hear what other people tell them and have told them about Jesus and salvation instead of hearing what he said and his apostles said about it

I feel as if we heard what’s in gods word our beliefs would change if we’re believers even if we’ve got it all figured out differently believers who hear what he said in the word he sent to all people will be changed through thier jnowkedge and understanding of his Will and life that is meant to be expressed in them

i think we as a church should focus on learning what’s in the Bible instead of always explaining what we think or “what great revolutionary doctrine we’ve secretly decoded or were sent secretly by god to teach everyone That Jesus and his apostles didn’t know about “

My position is probably annoying to many but at this point t I feel it’s important to just share the things I’ve noticed that the word says and people who are willing to here it will and it will maybe add to something they already knew or be supportive of something g they are saying or even god forbid maybe they would hear something in the Bible that is different from what they thought beforehand

Ps brother thank you also for what you say here

CS1 · Jan 26, 2024

If you had accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and you die. you go to be with Jesus.

If you are professing to be a Christian and have no desire to follow our Lord in Baptism in water as HE did.

There is a serious issue with your obedience, and soul searching should be done in your heart concerning your Salvation.

I think that cuts through all the stuff and gets to the rubber meeting the road.

Wansvic · Jan 26, 2024

Gideon300 said:

While reading your comment a scripture immediately came to mind. You may be familiar with it. In the account an apostle gives a very telling instruction to a group of people who have already acknowledged belief in Jesus. He said, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40
Their response to his instruction is as follows:

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:40-42

False doctrine? No sir. That's expressly stated in God's word. Refusing to accept to truth about water baptism is not wise.

Wansvic · Jan 26, 2024

Moses_Young said:

Obedience is the key.

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
And being made perfect, he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:8-9

"And he (Jesus) said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

YWPMI · Jan 26, 2024

CS1 said:

~~~~~~
The question was, originally, as I understand it, was... If you died right after accepting Yeshua, but before getting the chance to be baptized, will you go to hell?. I have a few answers to this... but will only say NO. Death is sleep (Heb 9:27) And as it is appointed unto men once to due, but after this the judgement; Psalms 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death. There are more, but I won't take that research from you.

Wansvic · Jan 26, 2024

Jimbone said:

If you are referring to receiving the indwelling of the Holy Ghost first. We see that occurred in scripture and still happens for some today. However, as the word reveals both being indwelt and having one's sins remitted through obedience to God's command of water baptism in the name of Jesus was necessary for all.

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:" John 16:13

What if you die before water baptism?

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