What If ?

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kaylagrl

Guest
#41
What if a guy sitting by your church, was smelly, on shaven , his clothes where full of holes, bottle of wine in a bag. What would you do ???


Actually I know a of a pastor who did just this. He disguised himself and sat outside the church door and was largely ignored. The congregation was obviously shocked when they recognized their pastor and more than embarrassed at the sermon they got that morning.

When I was in ministry we use to sing a song and the gist of it was "in the shadow of the church steeple, people are dying." That song always brought a lot of tears to people's eyes. I'm not judging people here, but from my travels most of the church has a very small view when it comes to reaching out beyond the church doors. I would always get annoyed at churches who wanted to have an "outdoor service" and they would have it in the parking lot of their church. smh We sang in public parks, we sang in grocery parking lots where allowed, and sometimes just on the street. I recall we sang at one of the Salvation Army churches in downtown Toronto, in Canada. The pastor, well major, who had asked us there warned us that there might be drug addicts, prostitutes, pimps there that night. My sister and I were fairly young, just out of our teens, we didn't know what to expect. The room filled and people had coffee and sat for the service. I can tell you I never ministered before a more attentive or respectful group of people. No one moved or said anything until the call to the alter where many came and were prayed with. I will never forget that night or those people for as long as I live.

I grew up in a ministry situation. First my parents and then my sister and I joined them. But my parents were always inviting people home. One year they asked a single mom to spend all Christmas with us. Her husband had left her for another woman. She had four children. She was new to the church and my parents didn't want her alone on Christmas. So they brought them to our house and made room for everyone to sleep. They even bought gifts for the kids and we were not well to do people. Today those kids are adults and they think the world of my parents. They are all in church with kids of their own. But the story doesn't end there. Many years later we did a service and the father of those children attended the service with his wife and they both got saved! The kids had a reunion with their dad who was now a believer and did his best to make amends before he died several yrs later.

So I say all that not to brag on my family because it's certainly not anything of our power, but God's. It's just a testimony and a reminder that people are dying every day in the shadow of some church steeple somewhere. And we all need to be more aware of those that need the Lord outside the church doors. I believe if Jesus came back today to "visit" the last place you'd find him is in a church, or on Christian tv shows. He'd be walking among the lost and the homeless. I think the Salvation Army does the best work reaching the lost, as I witness in my travels. I'll post the song below, always made me think every time we performed it. In the shadow of the steeple someone needs Jesus, it's our job to find them and help them on that journey.


Shadow of the Steeple


Sunday morning sunshine, bathing the land.
Sunday morning people, with Bibles in their hand.
He wonders why, they pass him by
And walk around him, on the street.
To shade the light, that replaced the night,
He cups his hands to see.


In the Shadow of the Steeple, Somone's crying
Does anybody care, can't you hear him crying
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's Crying.


The preacher talks, about the needs
In a distant land.
He says folks, are dying over there
We need to lend a hand.
Its getting late, let's pass the plate,
Just do the best you can.
Then the congregation rises, for their final, A-men


In the Shadow of the Steeple, Somone's crying
Does anybody care, can't you hear him crying
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's Crying.



The cold Blue Steel, He clutches Fast.
And he points it the place,
Where the shadow of the steeple,
Is resting on his face
He feels the sting, the bells ring
As he stumbles, and goes down
But folks, just shake their heads,
As they walk away, from the figure on the ground


And in the shadow of the steeple, someone's dying,
Does anybody care, cant you hear him crying
In the shadow of the Steeple, someones dying
And in the Shadow's of our Steeples. souls are dying
Does anybody care. cant you hear them crying
Souls are out there dying, we need to listen for their crying.
Need to reach out to the people, out their underneath our steeple's,
Dont let the shadow of your Steeple, find someone dying.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#42
What if a guy sitting by your church, was smelly, on shaven , his clothes where full of holes, bottle of wine in a bag. What would you do ???
Of course everyone here would offer some sort of help and assistance to address this persons situation. At least i would hope so.
But what did Jesus do? Thats the question.
When entering the pool of healing temple he saw a man stricken of palsy been there for yrs. Waiting.
Sure his hygiene was a bit in question. His clothing less than desired.
So jesus went over and healed him......not.....He asked him if he wanted to be healed. ( non judgemental).

Im sure john the baptist was a site to see...honey and locust diet clothed in camel hair. Wet camel hair essence of nature.

I ve seen many of christian and non christian engage in being the good Samaritan. Praise God for that.
But does that really help or just enable.
Saints be spirit led in all things. Ask if help is needed, listen, let them know there is hope and they are loved right where they are.
Ive seen people make a living this way, ive seen violence and theft come out of these events. To judge a person by there appearance is not what we should do. For even satan can appear as a angel of light.
Beinging able and ready to give is a good heart and pleases God. Now let God decide who will receive.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#43
There's been a streak of people joining recently and then coming on here and running people down one way or another. Probably all the same person would be my guess.
 

Talljake

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
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#44
There's been a streak of people joining recently and then coming on here and running people down one way or another. Probably all the same person would be my guess.
My question is, where did love go? A lot of anger and bitterness. Didnt the lord teach us to be humble and to love one another? I pray for soft hearts.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,502
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#45
My question is, where did love go? A lot of anger and bitterness. Didnt the lord teach us to be humble and to love one another? I pray for soft hearts.
Well, you're right. I believe Chris21's own advice should be heeded. If he upsets you to the point you can't control yourself, put him on ignore.
 

Talljake

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
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#46

Some how my uncle knows this family, this song has a great message in it
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#47
What if a guy sitting by your church, was smelly, on shaven , his clothes where full of holes, bottle of wine in a bag. What would you do ???
On some level, compassion is always the right answer.

That said, most homeless will have substance abuse problems that go far deeper than simple passing compassion can remedy. It be a condition of their bad habits to be perpetually brought back to a state of homelessness and self-destruction.

We are required to look after our own first and then from the excesses be charitable (it's wrong to take the children's bread to feed to the dogs/infidels). Statistically speaking, since most of us are also debt slaves to mortgages and other loans with no real 'excess' monetarily speaking, the question of committing money to homeless becomes a sticky, complicated dilemma. Even allowing a homeless person access to your personal property (which if mortgaged, is really just wholly or partly the bank's to begin with) increases needless risk of damage or injury to you or your loved ones, and financial risk to the master of your debts. Donating time and effort on the other hand can be a commodity that common people have in excess, but again, it is not right to sacrifice time that would rightly belong to your children or close family in order to give it to a nonChristian stranger.

If your question was to highlight the idea that Christians don't give endlessly to strangers in need, by scripture it would not be right for a Christian to give endlessly outside of their means and duties. There are reasons for this and it does not make a Christian hypocritical to deny a stranger attention if they themselves do not have the excesses to give.

It can be a difficult topic to address because on some level that response can appear cavalier. The intention isn't to be antipathic or indifferent, but there is a hierarchy of responsibility and duties that any person needs to attend to, and it starts with looking after your own first, and especially your own household. And sometimes that means kicking homeless people out of sensitive areas if you know there is an elevated danger of something like violence or destruction of property.

If you had a retired millionaire with no duties or responsibilities walking by the homeless man, that's a completely different story. I can't think of any reason they shouldn't be helping. And if not that directly to that homeless person in particular, doing something to set their accumulated excess wealth in motion in order to do good.

All of this said, there are different reasons Christians act the way they do (by faith guiding them), but it does not necessarily make a Christian a hypocrite by not providing services for a homeless person.

There will be different approaches and thoughts on this. I don't think anyone wants to see others suffer, and what a wonderful thing it is to be able to help other people. To be able to help people get back onto their own feet. But sometimes the resources (mentally, physically, monetarily) just aren't there to help everyone all the time. Let faith guide your path for how to best help people but always remember that your own people come first. House over broader church community, and church community over outsiders.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#48
I'm all for ministries to help the downtrodden; places with security who are equipped to handle it.

However, depending on where you live and what the situation is, it might be very foolish to invite someone into your car or home. You might find yourself on the wrong end of a knife and out of a car. Many homeless people are very good people and wouldn't hurt anyone; but you never know. So unless you know the person, best to not take chances. We don't have the ability to make ourselves invisible and get out of jams like Jesus did.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
#49
what if a guy was dressed in fashionable pricey togs, perfumed, clearly used expensive hair product, organic vegan super-beverage in a titanium, insulated flask?

or what if someone ordinary and unremarkable was sitting in a pew?

am i supposed to do something different?

maybe i flip through the hymnal & doodle clouds on the back of a visitor card, dunno.
i don't think i have enough information here to make predictions about my behavior
Yeah, there is no 'I have to do this thing to greet them'

It's going to depend on the occasion.

What if the person with alcohol was abusing members of the church verbally and asking for alcohol from the congregation?

It's not so cut and dried eh?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#50
I know people who minister to street people in tough neighborhoods, but they know how to handle themselves and are experienced. Thank goodness not everyone in the body of Christ is the same. We all have different gifts; this is what makes the body strong—all exercising different gifts to glorify the Lord!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#51
What if a guy sitting by your church, was smelly, on shaven , his clothes where full of holes, bottle of wine in a bag. What would you do ???
“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for

I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:34-

“But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:17-18‬ ‭

Love tells the truth by what people do and not so much what we say . if we love others and we see someone in need and are able to help , if we love them we will help them

if we saw man in that state , what would we do if we loved him ? And what would we do if we didn’t love him or care about his well being ?

a if we love someone and can help we aren’t going to pass by and pretend it’s not our place to help
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
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#52
I'm all for ministries to help the downtrodden; places with security who are equipped to handle it.

However, depending on where you live and what the situation is, it might be very foolish to invite someone into your car or home. You might find yourself on the wrong end of a knife and out of a car. Many homeless people are very good people and wouldn't hurt anyone; but you never know. So unless you know the person, best to not take chances. We don't have the ability to make ourselves invisible and get out of jams like Jesus did.
I greatly appreciate all of the no-nonsense advice people in this thread are giving to those who want to help.

Who you are and what your situation also affects how much and what you can do. As a single woman who has sometimes lived alone, I have had times where I invited other women who were going through difficult things to stay with me. But I don't think I will do this again.

I used to live in a state where I found out that if you invited someone into your home, even if there was no formal or legal contract, they could stay indefinitely if it was by the host's invitation and if they refuse to leave, you have to go through legal eviction as if you were a landlord. I don't know if this rule is still in effect or how far it extended, but I was fortunate that my guests left on their own accord.

I knew someone right here on CC (a single man who owned a gun, so he felt sure of his own safety) who invited a homeless man to stay at his place for the weekend. He caught the man shooting up heroin in his bathroom and was blessed in that the man left without a confrontation. But what if he had called the police, or the man had a gun as well, or neighbors called the police, and the man had said, "This person is my dealer/fellow addict, and invited me here," and the police find illegal drug paraphernalia in your residence?

You could vary well be jailed or at the very least, have to go through a very lengthy legal process.

A couple of women I befriended also had partners with very violent tendencies and owned guns, so anyone who helped them became a target on their list. Your own safety has to be a priority in choosing how to help.

I began choosing ways to help outside of my own living space. For almost 10 years, I participated in a ministry that wrote to and visited prison inmates. I actually felt much safer going to 5 maximum security prisons than I did with the thought of inviting people into my home. Although I remember there was one time when I was in the waiting room, and there was an inmate sweeping on one side of the room and an officer standing on the other side, and I was the only one there with only one entrance/exit to the area that was now partially blocked. I was on high alert until the situation changed.

I actually miss participating in this ministry until there was an incidence of a young married woman in my home state who was doing the same type of ministry. One of the inmates her group would witness to escaped and killed her -- and the unborn first child that she was expecting with her husband.

After this, I felt that God was telling me to stop what I was doing and focus on other ways I could help. To be honest, I have missed the prison ministries greatly and have asked God for opportunities to find something similar, but it was a great learning lesson and for the sake of safety.

For now, and I feel this is by God's leading, I have been choosing to help in ways that are either part of public groups, or at least does not involve too much of my personal information or living situations.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,744
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#53
I greatly appreciate all of the no-nonsense advice people in this thread are giving to those who want to help.

Who you are and what your situation also affects how much and what you can do. As a single woman who has sometimes lived alone, I have had times where I invited other women who were going through difficult things to stay with me. But I don't think I will do this again.

I used to live in a state where I found out that if you invited someone into your home, even if there was no formal or legal contract, they could stay indefinitely if it was by the host's invitation and if they refuse to leave, you have to go through legal eviction as if you were a landlord. I don't know if this rule is still in effect or how far it extended, but I was fortunate that my guests left on their own accord.

I knew someone right here on CC (a single man who owned a gun, so he felt sure of his own safety) who invited a homeless man to stay at his place for the weekend. He caught the man shooting up heroin in his bathroom and was blessed in that the man left without a confrontation. But what if he had called the police, or the man had a gun as well, or neighbors called the police, and the man had said, "This person is my dealer/fellow addict, and invited me here," and the police find illegal drug paraphernalia in your residence?

You could vary well be jailed or at the very least, have to go through a very lengthy legal process.

A couple of women I befriended also had partners with very violent tendencies and owned guns, so anyone who helped them became a target on their list. Your own safety has to be a priority in choosing how to help.

I began choosing ways to help outside of my own living space. For almost 10 years, I participated in a ministry that wrote to and visited prison inmates. I actually felt much safer going to 5 maximum security prisons than I did with the thought of inviting people into my home. Although I remember there was one time when I was in the waiting room, and there was an inmate sweeping on one side of the room and an officer standing on the other side, and I was the only one there with only one entrance/exit to the area that was now partially blocked. I was on high alert until the situation changed.

I actually miss participating in this ministry until there was an incidence of a young married woman in my home state who was doing the same type of ministry. One of the inmates her group would witness to escaped and killed her -- and the unborn first child that she was expecting with her husband.

After this, I felt that God was telling me to stop what I was doing and focus on other ways I could help. To be honest, I have missed the prison ministries greatly and have asked God for opportunities to find something similar, but it was a great learning lesson and for the sake of safety.

For now, and I feel this is by God's leading, I have been choosing to help in ways that are either part of public groups, or at least does not involve too much of my personal information or living situations.
amen there are many needs in this world and many ways to serve God and just love a daily life of compassion towards others who we naturally meet and come across in life

a co worker , the neighbor family who is less fortunate , that cousin who has always struggled that guy within a sign on the corner asking for some change or food almost everyday we go out into our city or town we’re going to have opportunities to impact someone else’s life in a positive and helpful way


there's a spirit of brotherly love that permeates the gospel it teaches us and encourages us to simply be a blessing to the people who we have contact with whoever they might be

there are many , many dangers in this world I’m so glad you are aware. About ten years ago in my city a woman was driving to a Bible study and saw a man with a limp walking she decided to
Pick him up and give him a ride. Being the good hearted loving person she was and the next morning her body was found. The man had murdered her

Women especially should always always make thier safety the priority in this dangerous world. This isn’t going to stop the n from being a great blessing in life to many people but they aren’t going to be able to help Much if they aren’t safe or get harmed

common sense is a good thing fear is not always bad thing and accepting a warning and lesson in one’s heart while still looking to make a good impact for Jesus helping others is admirable and commendable.

At he statistics just in America alone are pretty staggering concerning violent crime against women in positive that God doesn’t want anyone putting themselves in danger when possible

really good post
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
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#54
My view ----I think the ------What IF ---Is Very Iffy -----

I would pray to the Holy Spirit and ask what I should do ---the Holy Spirit is the only one who knows the person's heart and if they are eager to be helped or not ------just helping someone on our own could get us a Big slap in the face -----

There are many people who don't want to accept help from others -----their pride steps in ---they don't think they are worthy ---there maybe other reasons -----but whatever the reason the only Person who knows their reason is the Holy spirit ---not us -----

I have known Christians who have had bad personal experience by approaching the person on their own power who looks like they may need some help -----and they were flatly told to get lost they didn't want their help ===

from Google
People also ask
Why do some people not want help?
Asking for help often makes people feel uneasy because it requires surrendering control to someone else. “ Another fear is being perceived as needy.

The Holy Spirit is there to direct us in our daily lives and we don't seem to adhere to relying on His direction for Victory in our actions -----

https://revtrev.com/live-light/70-functions-of-the-holy-spirit/

He leads and directs. (Matthew 4:1; Mark 1:12; Luke 2:27; 4:1; Acts 8:29; Romans 8:14)

Read more at >>> http://revtrev.com/live-light/70-functions-of-the-holy-spirit/
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#58
It's just that people slowly turn away from love.so I hope any of you could become the richest in the world and still remember help the poor,not just food,use the money to offer some work such as Soilless cultivation techniques to feed more poor people.

Maybe not the richest man in the world, but a meal can help a little,
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,803
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#59
Sometimes men are smelly and unshaven, so that wouldn't really be a red flag. And depending on how bad the holes were, that might not be either. Maybe the wine is for communion?

Now if he and his clothes are also downright filthy, and the holes are massive holes, and he smells like a sewer- and he has a 40 of Old English 800 in a brown bag...
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
773
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#60
What a dumb question. He is smelly, with tatered clothes, a bottle of wine in a bag. How do you think he is doing?
One must always examine why it is there approaching such a man as described in the scenario. Is it to truly meet the needs of such a person or is it self-righteous gratification?

It’s rather arrogant of you to assume the man needs or even wants any help from you. That’s why I would give him the common courtesy and respect to ask how he’s doing without making any assumptions.

Respecting his dignity empowers him, thus making him in charge of the conversation and any possible actions taken thereafter. That’s free, prudent wisdom. 😉