What is Hebrew Roots?

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#41
"Believes that they should be followed"? No; that is not following or attempting to follow. If the person believes and attempts to follow them, then yes.

We have no relationship with God by means of following the Law. We have no improved standing, no extra credit, no special arrangement, no favour. It's an all-or-nothing proposition.

Those who are in right relationship with God are there because of faith in the Person and finished work of Jesus Christ. In Him the righteous requirements of the Law are fully satisfied.

The Holy Spirit works in the believer to conform them to Christlikeness. Self-effort (Law-following) does not get them there.
I was not asking all of this just if someone looks at the 10 Commandments and thinks the Most High wants them to live in this manner, are they following a "justified by works" doctirine simply by seeking to live by the 10 Commandments. No motive other than said person thinks they are right and the Most High wants them to live this way.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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#42
If you tell someone that you are proud of your son so listen to him, would you expect that person you are speaking to never to listen to anyone else? God the Father did not tell us to listen to Christ because He is superior to Me.

We have inherited such teachings from early Christian Fathers who knew idol worshippers but discounted what the Jewish Christian Fathers taught. If we study idols as they had it was routine for a son to get rid of the Father because he was old and obsolete. So they taught the same as applied to our Son and Father. Our God is not an idol, God is love and spirit.

By hearing this and listening with your new covenant understanding of God, you would know that you are to listen to all scripture including Christ.

We are told about Christ in the OT and the NT. Christ was given authority by His Father, but there is no where that we can find that the Son God gave us is to be held as superior to the Father.

It was the Father who raised the Son from the grave, not the Son raising himself. In the Lord's prayer we are to pray to the Father. Christ never instructed us to pray to Him. We can use Christ to intercede for us to the Father. Christ has great power given to Him by the Father, but Christ was not made superior to the Father.
John 14:28, “You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

John 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

John 5:19-20, “Therefore יהושע responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.”

John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
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#43
I don't see how you can come anywhere near such a conclusion after I quoted 1 John 2:23.
To deny the Father IS denying the Son, just as denying the Son is denying the Father.

What I am posting is in scripture, it isn't from me. If you will read Romans 5 to 8 you will find that when we identify with Christ and his death and resurrection we die to sin. At that time God puts His spirit within us. It is God's spirit we live by. The commandments are not sufficient as our guide. God's spirit is.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,057
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#44
No man is justified by anything other than faith in the Salvation by Jesus Christ crucified.

No one can say he is saved while living in sin as a life style.

Contradiction? To some it is because sin is breaking the law, and they believe we
need no longer adhere to the wisdom of our Fathe by means of Christ's teaching.

Yes, mercy and grace only are the salvation of any and all, but not if useed as an
excuse to trample the Blood shed for us.

Juses fulfilled amost all of the 613 laws, but they were not destroyed, they had
to be fulfileld, and that He does.

He also commands we are to continue with the laws…….how? Learn from Him directly;
I have drawn out how and why so many times and no one has come back to tell me
I have contradicted Jesus, nor hae they affirmed His teaching.

We are to obey according to Jesus Christ, and as best we are able just as Jesus Christ did
for us, otherwise everyone will see nothing but hypocrisy in all who teach agains Jesus Christ¡'s
teaching.

The truth is sssthey are spotted a mile away, even by on-believers who know just a little bit
about Jesus. Most of them woud probably know a lot more about Him if they were not turned off
by the myriad of PHarisees in the spotlight.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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53
#45
I was wondering why certain people on CC and other Christian Forums wrote "God" as "G-d," but after reading this article below on the Hebrew Roots Movement, I now see why. - https://answersingenesis.org/presuppositions/dangers-hebrew-roots-movement/

It is not unusual to see some HRM (Hebrew Roots Movement) proponents give themselves Hebrew names, identify as Torah observant, write “God” as “G-d,” eat only kosher foods, claim that the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew (or at least several books were), condemn numerous Christian traditions as pagan, and dismiss teachings from Paul’s epistles.


More and more I am becoming aware of the growing dangers of the Hebrew Roots Movement!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#46
Re: the bolded... this is misleading. The true Church is made up of those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work for the forgiveness of sin. It is these who are empowered by the Holy Spirit to love God and follow Him.
Amen, the true church is made of of those adopted into Gods family.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#47
You know what I was asking...

If someone reads the 10 Commandments and beleives they should be followed because they believe the Creator wants them to, is that "justification by works?"
If someone says that one will lose salvation if they do not follow them, then yes..
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
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#48
If you tell someone that you are proud of your son so listen to him, would you expect that person you are speaking to never to listen to anyone else? God the Father did not tell us to listen to Christ because He is superior to Me.

We have inherited such teachings from early Christian Fathers who knew idol worshippers but discounted what the Jewish Christian Fathers taught. If we study idols as they had it was routine for a son to get rid of the Father because he was old and obsolete. So they taught the same as applied to our Son and Father. Our God is not an idol, God is love and spirit.

By hearing this and listening with your new covenant understanding of God, you would know that you are to listen to all scripture including Christ.

We are told about Christ in the OT and the NT. Christ was given authority by His Father, but there is no where that we can find that the Son God gave us is to be held as superior to the Father.

It was the Father who raised the Son from the grave, not the Son raising himself. In the Lord's prayer we are to pray to the Father. Christ never instructed us to pray to Him. We can use Christ to intercede for us to the Father. Christ has great power given to Him by the Father, but Christ was not made superior to the Father.
What point are you trying to make. No one is denying the father here. Why are you using this argunent that is not there?
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
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#49
To deny the Father IS denying the Son, just as denying the Son is denying the Father.

What I am posting is in scripture, it isn't from me. If you will read Romans 5 to 8 you will find that when we identify with Christ and his death and resurrection we die to sin. At that time God puts His spirit within us. It is God's spirit we live by. The commandments are not sufficient as our guide. God's spirit is.
No one denied the father, your making accusations which are not true. I suggest you stop. Your hurting your own cause by doin this.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,072
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#50
I call anything that is against scripture anti God. So often people will post scripture from the OT and these people will object to it. As an example if posting is for law obedience, they twist this to saying it is telling God to give salvation based on obedience.

The true church is made up of people who love and follow God. Those who believe, study, and love scripture are often labeled as Hebrew Roots because of this and those are members of the church.

well you and the Roots gang make a stand against scripture so

hello anti-God I guess :rolleyes:

you are being ridiculous in your attempt to elevate Hebrew Roots above the Bible

you wish to go back to Mt Sinai? I'll buy your ticket and you can wait for the thunder and lightning but I don't think Moses is going to redo that gig...and certainly not God

the true church are those who are IN Christ...the redeemed and the sanctified, not those who want to pick and choose what laws they want to follow to appear more righteous than those who are saved by FAITH

apparently you do not understand that FAITH has always been the way of salvation from Genesis to Revelation

and Hebrew Roots is only too happy to teach you that.

do you believe Paul is a man called by God or do you ignore his letter? many Hebrew Roots groups ignore Paul because he puts a stick in the little grinding wheels of their self righteousness

have you ripped Galatians out of your Bible yet? or does Hebrew Roots have their own version...like the Jehovah's Witnesses
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,072
3,445
113
#51
To deny the Father IS denying the Son, just as denying the Son is denying the Father.

What I am posting is in scripture, it isn't from me. If you will read Romans 5 to 8 you will find that when we identify with Christ and his death and resurrection we die to sin. At that time God puts His spirit within us. It is God's spirit we live by. The commandments are not sufficient as our guide. God's spirit is.

oh dear

do you know the penalty for bearing false witness in the OT?

no one has denied God or Christ or the Holy Spirit here

you are spinning a red herring net because you CANNOT respond to simple questions without backing down off your Roots nonsense

Roots does not live by the Spirit of God. and you sound more like someone put an accusatory spirit in you...saying people are acting from demonic control if they oppose you and your beliefs

Roots says it lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God...but they do so in Pharisee style...they add to it and put burdens on people that Christ has set us free from and they deny that salvation is by faith while saying they believe it but then go about keeping this and that OT celebration and Sabbath worship etc, which no one cares...go ahead and do it...but the problem that arises, is they also condemn those who do not likewise because they are wrapped up in works

this stuff is sickening and a lie straight from the father of all lies
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,057
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#52
So many have the veil of Moses yet over their eyes when reading, not the law alone, but all of the Word.

Denying our spiritual forefathers were Hebrew by including all who know they were in with a sect is just petty and immature, no care, no thought.

Against such there is no manner of exchange.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,026
2,879
113
#53
oh dear

do you know the penalty for bearing false witness in the OT?

no one has denied God or Christ or the Holy Spirit here

you are spinning a red herring net because you CANNOT respond to simple questions without backing down off your Roots nonsense

Roots does not live by the Spirit of God. and you sound more like someone put an accusatory spirit in you...saying people are acting from demonic control if they oppose you and your beliefs

Roots says it lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God...but they do so in Pharisee style...they add to it and put burdens on people that Christ has set us free from and they deny that salvation is by faith while saying they believe it but then go about keeping this and that OT celebration and Sabbath worship etc, which no one cares...go ahead and do it...but the problem that arises, is they also condemn those who do not likewise because they are wrapped up in works

this stuff is sickening and a lie straight from the father of all lies
it really is very simple. there are 2 ways into the Kingdom. 2 only. perfectly keep the Law, or accept Christ and His Righteousness .

Hebrew roots, s.d.a. , etc. offer a non-existence 3rd option- accept Christ as Messiah, and keep the Law/Sabbath,

so one attempting to do this does not trust Christ nor perfectly keep the Law. so, sadly, such will miss the Kingdom.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,312
5,923
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53
#54
it really is very simple. there are 2 ways into the Kingdom. 2 only. perfectly keep the Law, or accept Christ and His Righteousness .

Hebrew roots, s.d.a. , etc. offer a non-existence 3rd option- accept Christ as Messiah, and keep the Law/Sabbath,

so one attempting to do this does not trust Christ nor perfectly keep the Law. so, sadly, such will miss the Kingdom.
Misguided teachers of the law in the Hebrew Roots movement (and especially SDA's) play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, yet they redefine this in a way that is contrary to the gospel. Though they often deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their plan of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9) :(

Here is a statement below from a former member of CC who is SDA that is a good example of perverting the gospel. :cautious:

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
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#55
I am sure demons will be working now, for these words seem to alert them to start working. The main idea behind Hebrew Roots is to believe in the Lord and His word. It is called roots because knowing and believing in the Lord is to know all God tells us about Himself in all scripture from beginning to end.

The first way that demons attack people who believe in the Lord is by using the law. They will say that there has been times in history that bible students have said they believe that God offered salvation for obedience. This was never so, but God has over and over asked for obedience. By pointing a finger at people accusing them of believing this false way to salvation they can convince some people to join them in their opposition to the truth of the Lord.
This is an interesting thought and I agree. Furthermore, this same Lord gave us exactly what the demon would do to deceive. I find this whole topic fascinating, and revealing as well.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

I find it amazing that in this example for our admonition God shows us the deceiver will first work to convince us he knows God. And will use HIS WORDS. Not all of them mind you, but parts of them. And of course a perfect deceiver would try and look righteous in man's eyes. It is also confirmed later in His Word that the deceiver disguises itself as "Ministers of Righteousness".

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

This is telling as well. God had said not to do something, and if she did she would die. But the serpent's first directive was to convince her she would not die. She is already saved. She is already good to go. Well that is good news isn't it. It's little wonder she was taken in by that preaching.

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject His Instruction) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This is the main theme of the deceiver. To convince people in the Lord's Name, using some of the Lord's Word, That the God of the Bible doesn't care about you. That He created unjust Laws that will keep you blind, burdened, Laws that are "against" you. And that you can only be "FREE" if you reject God's unjust Laws and follow the religious, good looking, reasonable sounding instructions of the deceiver, who has disguised itself as a Minister of Light.

I believe the Christ had this written so those who are truly seeking Him, and not just a defense for their religious traditions, will see how the deceiver will "Deceive the whole World" and put on the Armor God created to protect us from the its "wiles".

I don't know much about HR, I didn't know they existed until I heard about them on this forum. But of they are into scripture for the purpose of creating doctrine, as opposed to defending religious lifestyles, then that can't be bad in my opinion.

Great Post Blik.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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515
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#56
Hebrew roots is not a denomination, it is a movement, People on here are considered hebrew roots. Yet they come from different denominations. Hebrew roots is an attempt to do as the jews tried to do to the new church in the NT, by making them return to the traditions and religion of the law. It is an attempt to bring people back under the yoke of bondage, by showing it is by the law we make God happy. Refusing to understand the law was a tutor. It was not made to show us how to be righteous, it was given to show us how unrighteous we really are. The ceremonies also. Which pointed to christ, and what christ would fulfill. Are meaningless. Since Christ already came and fulfilled

In essence, they are really no different than any other legalistic religious based movement, it is based on human works, and trying to appease or please God. And not focused on Gods work, and what he has done, and is doing in us.
That is one opinion. But if you look at ALL the scriptures which the Christ said to do, you will find it was the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time who had corrupted the Word's of God. Rejected volumes of Old Testament and creating their own religion.

When the Christ came with His Disciples they were the movement of that time to return to the Word of God.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul taught from the OT scriptures and these religious leaders of their time tried to silence him.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

The Pharisees had corrupted God's word, but the Christ and His Disciples were there to restore it.

Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Matt. 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

It's interesting to note that the interruption of the Mainstream Religious traditions of that time cause a lot of anger and scorn also.

I would say that the Christ led a movement similar to the HR movement to expose religious traditions which didn't come from the scriptures.

The mainstream preachers killed Him for it. I can expect the same kind of anger would come from exposing religious traditions of men in these days as well Not to mention the Christ said it would.

Interesting topic for sure.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,072
3,445
113
#57
it really is very simple. there are 2 ways into the Kingdom. 2 only. perfectly keep the Law, or accept Christ and His Righteousness .

Hebrew roots, s.d.a. , etc. offer a non-existence 3rd option- accept Christ as Messiah, and keep the Law/Sabbath,

so one attempting to do this does not trust Christ nor perfectly keep the Law. so, sadly, such will miss the Kingdom.
many of these groups skirt around NT teaching by omitting the letters of Paul

and they will quote Jesus but not in keeping with the New Covenant

and they get very defensive and hostile if you point that out to them

they will also use Hebrew names and spelling...I do believe they think all this brings them to a higher level than you or I calling Jesus, Jesus or spelling God like this rather than like this G-D

there are some so extreme they change the spelling on all the names
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,664
1,978
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#58
I am sure demons will be working now, for these words seem to alert them to start working. The main idea behind Hebrew Roots is to believe in the Lord and His word. It is called roots because knowing and believing in the Lord is to know all God tells us about Himself in all scripture from beginning to end.

The first way that demons attack people who believe in the Lord is by using the law. They will say that there has been times in history that bible students have said they believe that God offered salvation for obedience. This was never so, but God has over and over asked for obedience. By pointing a finger at people accusing them of believing this false way to salvation they can convince some people to join them in their opposition to the truth of the Lord.
Galatians 4:21-25
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

The original Hebrew people made a mistake by rejecting Grace. People who go back to this Hebrew Roots make the same mistake.

But they don't know it. Those that desire to be under the law do not hear the law. If they did they wouldn't desire to be under it.

Interesting that the OP brings up demons. It shouldn't be surprising that the enemy uses just a little bit of truth mixed in with their lies.

You've got to admire this strategy, really. Only someone who has been to Christ can really spot the error of the Hebrew Roots philosophy.

Those who have not been to Christ still have the vail over their heart and mind and are vulnerable to the half truth/half lie that is espoused. These are people who have heard the good word of the gospel but it doesn't grow in the good ground of the prepared heart.

Mark 4:14-15
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
687
113
#59
If someone says that one will lose salvation if they do not follow them, then yes..
That is not what I saked tho, you changed my question and answered your changed question.

You know what I was asking...

If someone reads the 10 Commandments and beleives they should be followed because they believe the Creator wants them to, is that "justification by works?"
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
495
83
#60
I have responded to 7 Seas. His post is in black, mine is underlined.

]well you and the Roots gang make a stand against scripture so
hello anti-God I guess :rolleyes:I am making a stand for scripture, all of it.

you are being ridiculous in your attempt to elevate Hebrew Roots above the Bible. I am elevating the bible above the false beliefs started by man.

you wish to go back to Mt Sinai? I'll buy your ticket and you can wait for the thunder and lightning but I don't think Moses is going to redo that gig...and certainly not God. Mt Sinai is in scripture, so I learn from it. I do not find any scripture telling me to not "go back" to scripture.

the true church are those who are IN Christ...the redeemed and the sanctified, not those who want to pick and choose what laws they want to follow to appear more righteous than those who are saved by FAITH. apparently you do not understand that FAITH has always been the way of salvation from Genesis to Revelation. You are correct about faith, we can have faith in all scripture tells us.

and Hebrew Roots is only too happy to teach you that. The idea of "Hebrew Roots" is to have faith in all of scripture, and to work at understanding its message.

do you believe Paul is a man called by God or do you ignore his letter? many Hebrew Roots groups ignore Paul because he puts a stick in the little grinding wheels of their self righteousness. Yes, Paul was called by God to be the apostle to the gentiles. He was a Jewish Hebrew Rabbi, and God used all his talents.

have you ripped Galatians out of your Bible yet? or does Hebrew Roots have their own version...like the Jehovah's Witnesses. If I ripped out any message the bible fives then it is not a policy of Hebrew Roots. If you actually think that the book of Galatians teaches anything different from the rest of scripture you will have to show me for I do not believe that.