What is Scripture?

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Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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#81
Are you claiming that Paul’s letters were not inspired by God?
Hi John,

Actually I am not claiming that. I have an answer for that, but actually the burden of proof isn’t on me to answer that right now. Someone is using that claim to prove the NT was recognized as scripture when those letters are written, but so far has failed to effectively do so.
 

Polar

Well-known member
May 8, 2022
993
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#82
You asked what demon believes the New Testament isn’t scripture. That’s borderline blasphemy in my opinion. When Jesus was here there was no Bible or New Testament. The NT wasn’t written until many years after His death. The scripture Jesus recognized was the Old Testament and He quoted it regularly. What’s your beef with that?
Yes yes. Your opinion. Asking a question is borderline blasphemy.

Jesus has been here since the beginning of our time on this planet. Consult Genesis.

First off you say there was no Bible when Jesus was here, then you say He quoted the OT regularly.

Since the OT is incorporated into our Bibles, it would indicate that Jesus did in fact apply the OT scrolls to indicate prophecy fulfilled and also the wisdom of God presented since the foundation of the earth.

I have no beef in the stew, but I would not want to eat whatever it is you are cooking up.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,373
610
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#83
uh huh. No verses that support your claim. Got it.
Oh, you've "got it", alright.

Some of us are seeking to see that it doesn't spread like a plague.

Anyhow, try familiarizing yourself with posts #27, #29, and #32.

You know, those posts where I allegedly didn't provide any verses under your watchful eye.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,244
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#84
uh huh. No verses that support your claim. Got it.
Peter acknowledged Paul’s epistles as scripture. See the use of “other scriptures.”

2 Peter 3:
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

Polar

Well-known member
May 8, 2022
993
280
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#85
The thoughts in the the OP are my thoughts and the thoughts of those who wrote the verses. If the thoughts are delusional then you’re calling the person who had the thoughts delusional. That’s a fact. No need to sugar coat it or be dishonest about it. You’ve fooled no one here.
Word salad with no dressing.

I'll pass.

LOL. Love the transference and amateur gaslighting. Doesn't work.

Anyway, folks and puppies are hungry here so up and at em.

ps. When you deny what someone actually said and twist what they said, I don't suppose we should be surprised that such liberty is displayed in your Biblical pursuits. :unsure:
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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#86
Yes yes. Your opinion. Asking a question is borderline blasphemy.
Yes it can be.

Jesus has been here since the beginning of our time on this planet. Consult Genesis.
and Hebrews 1.

First off you say there was no Bible when Jesus was here, then you say He quoted the OT regularly.
When I refer to “the Bible” I mean the canonized Protestant Bible.

Since the OT is incorporated into our Bibles, it would indicate that Jesus did in fact apply the OT scrolls to indicate prophecy fulfilled and also the wisdom of God presented since the foundation of the earth.
I agree with this part.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
6,644
3,069
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#88
Oh, you've "got it", alright.

Some of us are seeking to see that it doesn't spread like a plague.

Anyhow, try familiarizing yourself with posts #27, #29, and #32.

You know, those posts where I allegedly didn't provide any verses under your watchful eye.
Actually I’m doing damage control on your posts. You’re apparently spreading lies that the Bible calls the New Testament scripture which it doesn’t.

Do we believe and agree the New Testament is scripture? Yes we both agree.

This isn’t a matter of what we believe right now, but rather a matter of Sola Scriptura.

Do you believe the Bible has the final say on a matter? If yea, then you’re released from the burden of trying to prove something with the Bible that can’t be proved. You just don’t have any verses to support your claims.

I know, I ask for verses a lot; that’s a problem for false teachers.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,373
610
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#89
Actually I’m doing damage control on your posts. You’re apparently spreading lies that the Bible calls the New Testament scripture which it doesn’t.

Do we believe and agree the New Testament is scripture? Yes we both agree.

This isn’t a matter of what we believe right now, but rather a matter of Sola Scriptura.

Do you believe the Bible has the final say on a matter? If yea, then you’re released from the burden of trying to prove something with the Bible that can’t be proved. You just don’t have any verses to support your claims.

I know, I ask for verses a lot; that’s a problem for false teachers.
And you dodged the verses again, even after I provided you with the post numbers, as everybody here can see.

As far as false teachers are concerned, you don't need to travel further than your bathroom mirror to find one.

Repent.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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#90
Peter acknowledged Paul’s epistles as scripture. See the use of “other scriptures.”

2 Peter 3:
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
I disagree. Peter called Paul’s writings epistles. The “other scriptures” are the Old Testament.

Any verses that just plainly call the New Testament writings scripture?

If yes then we have something significant. The Old Testament is regularly referred to as scripture in the NT. So if the NT was also considered scripture at the time it was written then it should be referred to as scripture with frequency; it isn’t.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
6,644
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#91
And you dodged the verses again, even after I provided you with the post numbers, as everybody here can see.

As far as false teachers are concerned, you don't need to travel further than your bathroom mirror to find one.

Repent.
I saw those but I disagree with what you’re claiming they say. This OP is about if the New Testament was viewed as scripture when the letters were wrote and if we have verses to call it scripture today.

The verses you provided don’t address the OP. Maybe you were trying to create a new topic and thought I would follow it, but that isn’t happening.

If you respond with verses I’ll measure them against the OP to see how they apply or not. If I don’t feed into a comment then I’m usually to minimize the unnecessary static. I don’t really want a lot of distractions and useless comments in this thread.

Also, let’s keep context. The verses I quoted in the OP are about the scriptures.

You quoted Revelation in one example. Seriously? The context of that isn’t even about the scriptures. It has “the word of God” written in one of the verses you referenced which is able to be interpreted many ways.

Repent now.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,244
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#92
I disagree. Peter called Paul’s writings epistles. The “other scriptures” are the Old Testament.

Any verses that just plainly call the New Testament writings scripture?

If yes then we have something significant. The Old Testament is regularly referred to as scripture in the NT. So if the NT was also considered scripture at the time it was written then it should be referred to as scripture with frequency; it isn’t.
Peter’s use of the word other scriptures certainly implies that Paul’s epistles were scripture as well. Peter didn’t say “the scriptures”.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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#93
Peter’s use of the word other scriptures certainly implies that Paul’s epistles were scripture as well. Peter didn’t say “the scriptures”.
Actually, you’re implying that Peter was implying Paul’s letters were scripture. Unfortunately we can’t just ask Peter what he meant, but I think it’s quite clear he called Paul’s letters just letters.

With the Bible I think it’s not necessarily wise to build a doctrine off of one verse, with one word, that you believe implies something. You need a few verses, even two will suffice, that support what you’re claiming.

There just aren’t any verses that plainly say something like “Paul’s writings are scripture.”
 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
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near Montreal, quebec
#94
How about you and the op explain why you do not think the NT is scripture and then share how you think we should treat the NT since you do not believe it to be scripture.

I know for a fact that no matter what I post, it will just be ignored as has already been shown by the op. Peter refers to what Paul wrote as scripture. HUH? Yeah...look up above. It is in my 1st post. :)
Friend in Christ, , my question was serious an still remains unanswered, when you do answer, I will gladly do the same.

Peace!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,665
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#95
what doesn’t make sense is cherry picking a single word from a verse and making a grand sweeping assumption that it makes Paul’s letters scripture. Peter called his letters just letters

I already answered your question that the “other scriptures” refers to all of the scripture and you seem unsatisfied with that.

If you want to somehow make Paul’s letters turn into scripture then you’re going to need more than circumstantial evidence. You’re projecting meaning into passage. The burden of proof is on you here to prove what you’re saying the Bible says.
this isn't circumstantial; it's textual evidence. i'm pointing out a word in the text that hasn't been explained how it can fit your interpretation of it.
"scripture" implies one, but "other scripture" is tacitly, specifically referring to more than one - with the first being an example exactly like the remainder.


you wouldn't say "God saved me & other Christians" without implying that you are part of the group 'Christians'
likewise why does Peter say that people twist Paul's epistles just like they do the other scripture?


if Peter means that people twist Paul's letters just like they also twist 'actual scripture' he has no reason i am aware of to use the word "other"


if making a case of, or finding import in one word bothers you, haven't you read things like Galatians 3:16? God doesn't say seeds but 'seed' singular?
or how about Hebrews 8:13? by saying "new" He makes the old obsolete? or Hebrews 9:16 - in the case of a testament there must be the death of the testator? or how about in Genesis 22 when Abraham is assured God will provide Himself a Lamb -- then when the angel stops Abraham's hand, he finds a goat?
i could mention the warning in Revelation 22:18 about adding or removing a word from the book, or how important to understanding Christophanies is the difference between "an" angel of the LORD vs. "The" Angel of the LORD -- but you see what i mean by now, right?


the word "other" happens to appear in Peter's epistle.
it must be explained, unless we're also just throwing Peter's words out as uninspired, therefore untrustworthy too



it's just a point you will have to find a way to work around, if your case is correct -- and brother, saying "that word doesn't matter" is not a sound argument. it's just not convincing. the word exists here; we have to find a reason for it. that's all.
if you have the right argument, then the right explanation should exist; we just have to find it -- and no, i do not accept "other doesn't actually mean other" as a valid explanation.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,665
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#96
the word "other" happens to appear in Peter's epistle.
it must be explained, unless we're also just throwing Peter's words out as uninspired, therefore untrustworthy too
@Runningman
i think the most logical ((perhaps the only logical)) path to arguing Paul's epistles are not '
scripture' is to say that Peter didn't know what he was talking about.


do you agree with that?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,244
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#97
Actually, you’re implying that Peter was implying Paul’s letters were scripture. Unfortunately we can’t just ask Peter what he meant, but I think it’s quite clear he called Paul’s letters just letters.

With the Bible I think it’s not necessarily wise to build a doctrine off of one verse, with one word, that you believe implies something. You need a few verses, even two will suffice, that support what you’re claiming.

There just aren’t any verses that plainly say something like “Paul’s writings are scripture.”
Well, we do know that the Lord revealed to Paul the mystery in which he wrote. God’s word equals scripture.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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#98
Kind of makes you wonder who is inspiring the people who claim the same, doesn't it?

Sounds just like "that old serpent" to me.

You know, "Yeah, hath God said..."

I wouldn't stand too close to these people on the day of judgment if I were you.
Don’t worry I’ll be with the sheep. Where will you be?
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
6,644
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#99
I'll go a step further.

The people who are questioning the authority of God's word are "dangling" over hell.

Yeah, I said it, and fully meant it.
I agree the New Testament are scripture, but you’re implying I’m dangling over hell.

Matthew 12:36,37
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

What will be your answer be if God asks you why you said I’m inspired by Satan and that I’m dangling over hell?

Tip: there won’t be any careful word-smithing, dodging, or manipulating happening. Hopefully you’ll be given a chance to repent then and there.