What is "spiritually dead?"

[NoNameMcgee]

Not only did you answer my original question, you also answered a question I got to thinking when talking about this. You answered if that living spirit in me is mine, or God's. Not a temporary replacement spirit. Not the Holy Spirit, (although I suspect he is the one that maintains it for me.) My spirit!

Which, honestly, answers some of the question I asked EG about which part of us gets eternity. He was saying "spirit," but was talking soul too. I now get where the spirit part comes from. Which...

means I might finally be getting part of that dichotomy/trichotomy thingy I've never been able to get. I always knew this body got dumped at physical death. I just never knew what was left after that. Soul? Spirit? Both? Neither?

Between you and EG, I just got all the way up to at least partly understand what is left. "Spirit." It's mine. It was dead. It is no longer dead. And it gets to spend eternity with the Lord worshiping him and just downright enjoying him forever.

Way cool!

Soooo,

in your very minimalism style of writing, you just taught me more, in one, relatively short post, than I've learned in a very long time.

Thank you!

love ya lynn


God provides the growth

He's also used you to help me twice now that i can remember off the top of my head

 

[Depleted]

Let me put this another way or in another perspective. The first two answers were right on target and so were some of the others even though I did not read every post in this thread. I want you to please look at this from King David's perspective at Psalm 5:5, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."

In other words, everyone of us started out as "spiritually" dead or separated from God due to our sin nature when we were born. So, how does one come to be unspiritually dead?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

On the spiritually dead thingy, I do get it is separation from God. I really do. And that is a horrible place to be. BUT it is a horrible place to be that we never noticed was a horrible place to be until the Lord does something to us. "Something" is intentionally vague there, because some folks think that "something" is regeneration, while others think it is effectual calling.

Sooo, "horrible place to be" is a state of being. (Oh boy, Max. This is a good time to get into aceity and philosophical stuff I don't completely get, if you ever happened to find this thread. Could really use your help on this, because I'm on thin ice talking about it.) "Being" is an important word there, because when you think of dead people, you don't think of them as "being" as much as "wereing." They were. They are no longer, so they ceased being.

That "aceity" word is something Maxwell has been trying to help me understand for the last couple of weeks. Everything in the whole universe is "becoming," except for one. God. He is the only one who isn't becoming. He always was, and doesn't have to grow or change to become even more. The rest of us were, and are, but are still growing, or decaying, but always in transition. (And that's not just humans. The same can be said of the universe, rocks, and a pen, so that's why I have problems with understanding the fullness of the word.) So state of being is also moving onward. Becoming.

Is death becoming? Strangely, physical death is, considering even after we die we change. The body disintegrates. The rest of what we are, (and there goes that dichotomy/trichotomy thingy again), goes to heaven or hell.

But what is spiritual death? Is "becoming" something we do if we are spiritually dead? Because I distinctly remember having no concept I was in a horrible place, the pit of despair, and separated from God until I was regenerated by the him.


(And, side note, yet again. I think I missed Stunned's post despite my note to myself yesterday, but just realized it now, and have to go grocery shopping, so will have to go back when I return. Yeesh! #Iamsodimwittedattimes)

 

[Grandpa]

But what is spiritual death? Is "becoming" something we do if we are spiritually dead? Because I distinctly remember having no concept I was in a horrible place, the pit of despair, and separated from God until I was regenerated by the him.


(And, side note, yet again. I think I missed Stunned's post despite my note to myself yesterday, but just realized it now, and have to go grocery shopping, so will have to go back when I return. Yeesh! #Iamsodimwittedattimes)

That is your 'eyes to see and your ears to hear'.

You once were lost but now you are found.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Depleted]

Here are some words from Jesus on the subject:

John 8:

39 Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


And in Romans 1, we read about those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. When the truth is revealed to them, they restrain the truth. From there, downward spiral as they step further and further away from God. And there are several steps. God holds them for a certain time, but eventually He has to let them go.

The process starts with suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) which results in not glorifying God, being unthankful, empty imaginings, foolish heart being darkened (Rom 1:21).

After a while, God gives them up to uncleanness (Rom 1:24).

After a while, God gives them up to vile affections (Rom 1:26).

After a while, God gives them over to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:28).

The process starts and ends with people rejecting God and God having to let go bit by bit until they become just as Rom 1:28-32 describes.


For those who turn to God and who do not restrain the truth in unrighteousness, God works in their lives to bring them closer and closer to Him. And one day, God is going to finish the work in His people. And then they shall know even as also they are known (1 Cor 13:12) ... then they shall be like Him (the Lord Jesus Christ) for they shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2).

(Finally got back to this spot with most work done, so can think.)

I'm sorry, but I'm not good at remembering who said what and only on a good day, sometimes, can I remember verses, but someone mentioned David was already sinful in the womb, DC said that Paul said (Romans 7 -- at least I remember where this time lol) he was alive until the commandments came, and this suggests we slowly died spiritual death by sinning.

So, so far we have
-- dead before birth
-- dead somewhere along the way.
-- just separated from God. (Which isn't a "just" really, but it does sound like we could find our way back somehow.)

I suspect I'm going to have to study Romans all the way through again, but I remember there was order to it. The ones you talk about in Romans 1 are the ones who aren't saved by the Lord. They're actually pushed further into their sin.

Really, can't say how I can answer my own question anymore. I have this overall feeling dead is dead, including spiritual death.

 

[Depleted]

Are these not the words the LORD proclaimed through the earlier prophets when Jerusalem and its surrounding towns were at rest and prosperous, and the Negev and the western foothills were settled?'"
And the word of the LORD came again to Zechariah:
"This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another.
Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. In your hearts do not think evil of each other.'
"But they refused to pay attention; stubbornly they turned their backs and stopped up their ears.
They made their hearts as hard as flint and would not listen to the law or to the words that the LORD Almighty had sent by his Spirit through the earlier prophets. So the LORD Almighty was very angry.
"'When I called, they did not listen; so when they called, I would not listen,' says the LORD Almighty.
Zech 7:7-13

You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
Matthew 23:24-26

Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?"
Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
John 9:37-41

Yeah? All that is in the scripture. But what does that have to do with my questions?

 

[Depleted]

Actually, what is stated at Got Questions is:

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, ‘You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.’” The phrase “you shall surely die” could be literally translated “dying you shall die.” This signifies a continuous state of death that began with spiritual death, continues throughout life as a gradual degradation of the body, and culminates in physical death. The immediate spiritual death resulted in Adam’s separation from God."​

My take on the whole thing is that Adam was created in the image of God, his body was formed from the dust of the ground, and when God breathed into his nostrils, Adam became a living soul (Gen 1:26-27; 2:7).

I believe when Adam sinned the image of God, in which Adam was created, died. Adam/Eve knew something drastic had happened because they covered themselves, they hid from God. They were naked before the fall and they were not ashamed (Gen 2:25). Why cover themselves now? They communed with God before the fall. Why hide from Him now?





According to Gen 5:3, all of Adam's progeny are born in the likeness and image of Adam in his fallen state.

In our day and time, when a person becomes born again, that part which was formerly dead due to Adam's sin, is made alive. At that point, the believer becomes a child of God. And God starts working in the life of His child ... cleaning him/her up, removing those parts which are detrimental, chastening, perfecting, strengthening. Sometimes we don't want to let go of that which God removes, and so (just like a garden) we become overgrown with weeds (care and concerns of this world). Thanks be to God, Who remembers that we are dust and so continues to carefully watch over us and work within us, bit by bit.

Brilliant! Never thought of it that way. Going to have to take some time to see if I can figure out if there are any cracks in the theory, (doesn't look like it at the moment, but this is what I do when I see something brilliant), before deciding if I fully agree.

And, I'm sure you didn't know this as you wrote it, but one thought I had as I was reading it was, "If we are brought back to the image of God why not go back to naked?" BUT you answered that before I even asked. We're still tarnished, so... ew ew. Let's not get naked yet. lol

(And, everyone says "Whew! She's not getting naked. I don't have to scratch my eyes out." lol)

 

[Depleted]

As a child it is clear that a child is safe under the blood until the "age that one becomes accountable" <--such cases come to mind like David and his weel old child that died for his sin...he said I will go to him and see him again....I personally believe in the age of accountability...my view...Paul was safe under the bllod as an innocent child, he became aware of sin and died spiritually....

Ah, sorry. That's a spot we'll never agree on then. I see no age of accountability in the Bible. My earliest memories include stealing cookies before dinner. I was sneaky for a reason. I totally knew what I was doing was wrong. Later on I was told not to go to Bell Lake until I past beginner's swimming. Went anyway, fully aware I was wrong. Even willing to be spanked, because what I wanted was more important than Mom worrying about me drowning.

My cousin was born when I was four. Along with remembering thinking I was much older than her (

) and needed to take care of her, I must have only been five when she hit high-chair stage. She had a bottle of milk she was drinking and did that klutzy baby move that always ends with food/drink flying. Purely accidental. And there is this startled look they get when it happens.

I ran off to grab the bottle and gave it right back to her. She got excited, big grin, flying arms, but the next time she let go of that bottle it was intentional. She definitely thought, (even before she thought in English), "how often can I get her to get my bottle for me."

I ran off and got it again, and returned it. She kept it up over and over again. She truly understood she was in control. It amused her. It entertained her and she was the center of attention.

Jesus said that keeping the commandments came down to two things -- loving the Lord fully and loving others as ourselves. Which means anything else is disobeying the commandments. There's only one thing else. Loving self first. My cousin couldn't put that into words, but she got it even before she spoke words. We are accountable.

What amazes me, thinking of what Jesus was like as a baby. I kind of think he did cry, but he cried with reason. To communicate hunger, thirty, uncomfortable in dirty diapers, scared. (Big loud noises.) He didn't cry over not getting his way. He didn't cry to seek attention. He didn't throw stuff just to get someone to pay attention to him. He didn't sin.

I have full faith in babies. They're like the rest of us -- fully self-absorbed. aka sinners. Big cousin and big sister. Both ways I've seen it in action. lol

 

[Depleted]

To be spiritually dead is like many others have said what we are before salvation to be spiritually alive is what happens when we are saved. The phrase I once was dead but now I'm alive pretty much says it all. Technically we are zombies now lets get us some brains

Brains?

I thought you said, "trains," so I caught the next one. (Very old joke.)

Zombies can move though. They have goals. (Sure, eating brains isn't a high goal, but it's a goal. lol)

The whole reason I asked this question is to figure out if we are "spiritually dead," then what goal/ability/skill/whatever could we muster to save ourselves?

This started from another thread when many of us kept saying, "Dead is dead." (Most of us actually agreed with that.) But here's the thing. We were alive. We could do stuff. We functioned. And yet we were "dead in sin." "Spiritual death" is different than physical death. Soooo, how? What weren't we able to do. What was dead in us? What did not function at all?

 

[Depleted]

I'll post the scripture again:

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

(No repentance, No circumcision, No Mosaic Law keeping)

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(These Gentiles received the Holy Spirit, through FAITH alone)

Context here Gentiles too:

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


(NOTE: Repentance isn't a requirement for salvation. Repentance is a result of one's faith. God grants/gives us the ability to repent & to turn from ungodly/dead works. It's this granted God given repentance that leads to Godly works. A result/fruit that proceeds from of one's faith)

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""

(NOTE: Gentiles are brought to repentance/obedience/godly living thru Faith)

Romans 1:5 """Through him we received grace""" & apostleship """to call all the Gentiles to the obedience""" """that comes from faith""" for his name’s sake.

(NOTE: Faith leads to obedience)

For Gentiles, repentance come's after and is a result of Faith.

What do you mean by salvation? (Confused that you don't think repent is in there at all. That doesn't fit into any order of salvation from wiki's list.)

 

[Depleted]

It can either mean, dead to truth, that leads to the state of the soul being considered dead .
not having eternal life . Happens because people do not know the truth . 2Th 2:12
for whatever reason, its not understood, or past time Christians have deceived them . That being Christs first warning In matthew 24.

During the Tribulation of Antichrist, if someone does not have truth, the gospel armor during the tribulation,
Christians will end up spiritually dead, and having a mortal soul . ( 2 thess 2 ) .

( Here is a end time verse, when Jesus returns,After the tribulation of Antichrist )

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Sleep in the dust is a figure of speech meaning spiritually dead , and morally low .
The time frame here, is those that took the mark aka worshiped the Antichrist etc .
They pray for mountains to fall on them when the real Jesus returns After The tribulation.

When its talking about the overcomers, its referring to those with Immortality ( 1 cor 15 :50- end )

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



Isaiah 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

Sorry, you lost me when your theology points to some grand end-of-the-world theory, instead of pointing to the Lord.

 

[Depleted]

Satan’s power lies in the realm of sin. The Scripture says, “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). Sin gives Satan the legal right to hold men in captivity, which leads to spiritual death and ultimately means eternal separation from God. In fact, the power of sin and death is so strong that before the Cross, every saint of God who died, which included all the Old Testament saints, did not go to Heaven. Rather, they were taken down into Paradise, in the heart of the earth, and actually held captive there by Satan.

JSM
​

And, sorry. Really not accepting your word for it either, considering you just gave a whole new spin to the Bible by telling everyone something you alone knew before -- where Paradise is located.

 

[Depleted]

Eagles and Patriots

Someone has said, the only way this could get more American is if those two teams ganged up to kill all the Washington Redskins and take over their stadium

I've got nothing against the Skins. They haven't caused us any problems for as long as I've been an Eagles fan. (1980.) They're just some team we beat most of the time twice a year. lol

(Most of the time -- until the last few years -- they were the NFC East's basement team.)

 

[Depleted]

Another case of because you said so, got it. I sent you the scripture's and you still deny. You just can't handle the truth.

Yup. Pretty much Neh's personality in a nutshell. "Believe what I believe or you're wrong." No proof needed at all... at least on his side.

Also the reason I have him ignored.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sin is a stench in His nostrils. And since you can’t divorce sin from the sinner, we are also a stench in His nostrils as well.

So, spiritual death means we stank before Him.

 

[Depleted]

But also, DC has shown us with scripture that there is an age of accountability, or David would not have known he would see his baby again.

Agree with your last post. Still not agreeing to age of accountability. lol

You don't think David knew he would see his son again, because he trusted the Lord? God never said he was punishing the baby. And, I see David like all of God's adopted people. He trusted the Lord and was counted as a Man of God by the Lord. He even trusted in the Savior, before he came.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

What If a person were to ask,If someone Is spiritually dead does that mean that they get a brand new spirit when their spirit Is MADE perfect or Is the spirit they already have CORRECTED to perfection?

 

[Depleted]

Gods wrath is not directed at man but at sin. If man refuses to forsake his sin then man is condemned with sin.

It is difficult with my impaired ability to love to understand how God is able to love man and hate sin without compromise. Perfect love and perfect hate is beyond my comprehension.

Man was created to love and worship God. No man is worthy and all men need mercy or they perish.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The sin wasn't destroyed. The men doing the sin were destroyed. And, destroyed, men go to hell. Sin does not.

 

[SovereignGrace]

To be spiritually dead is to be in total disobedience of Him and all that He loves. We are His enemy, hate Him, and all that He loves.

To equate spiritual death to just being separated from Him, is just flat out wrong.

 

[preacher4truth]

NOTE: Repentance isn't a requirement for salvation.

NOTE: The above is completely unbiblical.

Luke 13:1-5.

 

[SovereignGrace]

NOTE: The above is completely unbiblical.

Luke 13:1-5.

Hey, where’s Magenta at now?