What is standart of Holiness?

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#1
People say AS a Christian we have to live a Holy life. What is the standart of holiness?

Is law the standart? If so, we are not under the law anymore.

Can we AS a sinner live a Holy life? If not how we go to heaven without holiness

This is my personal question, please give biblical explanation
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,407
777
113
#2
Holy is the nature of God and everything else is unholy. But the presence of God makes something holy- like the ground around the burning bush was holy because God was there.
If God indwells you, then you also become a holy one of God, it is not our own doing.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#3
Holy is the nature of God and everything else is unholy. But the presence of God makes something holy- like the ground around the burning bush was holy because God was there.
If God indwells you, then you also become a holy one of God, it is not our own doing.
Thanks brother, It is good answer.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
687
113
#4
Of cousre it's the Law of YHWH, and unless heaven and earth pass it's not "done away"

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"

Yahshua gave perfect example of this standard, so more precisely would be to say Yahshua is the standard/example. And even more to the point the words of Yahshua.

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

John 13:15, “For I (Yahshua/Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.

1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Yahsua/Jesus) himself lived.”

John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

John 6:28-29,28 So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of the Mighty One?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of the Mighty One, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Matthew 17:4-5, “And Kĕpha answering, said to יהושע, “Master, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, let us make here three booths: one for You, one for Mosheh, and one for Ěliyahu. While he was still speaking, see, a bright cloud overshadowed them. And see, a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight. Hear Him!”
 
Dec 9, 2017
124
20
18
#5
Of cousre it's the Law of YHWH, and unless heaven and earth pass it's not "done away"

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"

Yahshua gave perfect example of this standard, so more precisely would be to say Yahshua is the standard/example. And even more to the point the words of Yahshua.

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

John 13:15, “For I (Yahshua/Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.

1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Yahsua/Jesus) himself lived.”

John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

John 6:28-29,28 So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of the Mighty One?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of the Mighty One, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Matthew 17:4-5, “And Kĕpha answering, said to יהושע, “Master, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, let us make here three booths: one for You, one for Mosheh, and one for Ěliyahu. While he was still speaking, see, a bright cloud overshadowed them. And see, a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight. Hear Him!”
(n) The law is done away for those who are in Christ Jesus.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#6
Of cousre it's the Law of YHWH, and unless heaven and earth pass it's not "done away"

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"

Yahshua gave perfect example of this standard, so more precisely would be to say Yahshua is the standard/example. And even more to the point the words of Yahshua.

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

John 13:15, “For I (Yahshua/Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.

1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Yahsua/Jesus) himself lived.”

John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

John 6:28-29,28 So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of the Mighty One?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of the Mighty One, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Matthew 17:4-5, “And Kĕpha answering, said to יהושע, “Master, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, let us make here three booths: one for You, one for Mosheh, and one for Ěliyahu. While he was still speaking, see, a bright cloud overshadowed them. And see, a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight. Hear Him!”
after Jesus say If you look a woman with lust, you commit adultery.

It was in the OT, If you commit adultery, you Will be stoned to death. But standart adultery was If you have sex with your friend wife. Something that you can proof It. Now If you look non your wife woman with lust, you commit adultery.

OT standart system is not work in jesus standart system. How you stoned adulterer in their heart?

Seem to me there must be new standart for NT.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,220
922
113
#7
People say AS a Christian we have to live a Holy life. What is the standart of holiness?

Is law the standart? If so, we are not under the law anymore.

Can we AS a sinner live a Holy life? If not how we go to heaven without holiness

This is my personal question, please give biblical explanation
The born Again Christian Is no longer judged by the law which Is GOD's perfect standard of righteousness but now they have received Grace through faith,JESUS fulfilled the law as a man and paid for our sins with HIS blood on a cross satisfying the demand of the law which meant death.
+++
The law was added because of Adam's disobedience to GOD's WORD choosing to listen to the devil and because of Adam's sin,man would now have to be perfect In his own strength but man was not able to fullfil the law perfectly and needed a savoir.JESUS took back the power Adam gave to satin and once again gave all those who believe HIS WORD Eternal Life.
+++
Hebrews 1:1-10
King James Version(KJV)


1.)God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2.)Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3.)Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4.)Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5.) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6.)And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7.) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8.)But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10.)And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
+++
 
L

LPT

Guest
#8
after Jesus say If you look a woman with lust, you commit adultery.

It was in the OT, If you commit adultery, you Will be stoned to death. But standart adultery was If you have sex with your friend wife. Something that you can proof It. Now If you look non your wife woman with lust, you commit adultery.

OT standart system is not work in jesus standart system. How you stoned adulterer in their heart?

Seem to me there must be new standart for NT.
Exodus 20:17
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

No it's still in the OT do not covet aka lust/desire.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#9
The born Again Christian Is no longer judged by the law which Is GOD's perfect standard of righteousness but now they have received Grace through faith,JESUS fulfilled the law as a man and paid for our sins with HIS blood on a cross satisfying the demand of the law which meant death.
+++
The law was added because of Adam's disobedience to GOD's WORD choosing to listen to the devil and because of Adam's sin,man would now have to be perfect In his own strength but man was not able to fullfil the law perfectly and needed a savoir.JESUS took back the power Adam gave to satin and once again gave all those who believe HIS WORD Eternal Life.
+++
Hebrews 1:1-10
King James Version(KJV)


1.)God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2.)Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3.)Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4.)Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5.) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6.)And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7.) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8.)But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10.)And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
+++
Yep, in other word, NT standart of holiness is Holy spirit, not law.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,566
1,852
113
#10
Standard of holiness is Jesus. Unless you are as holy as Jesus you are not acceptable in the sight of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#11
Exodus 20:17
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

No it's still in the OT do not covet aka lust/desire.
It is true, for some respect. When Jesus say If your hate your brother mean you kill him. In OT eyes for eyes

If you murder, you must be kill.

In OT If you hate your brother you not punish by stoned to death.

Also Paul say we not under the law anymore.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,421
3,107
113
#13
People say AS a Christian we have to live a Holy life. What is the standard of holiness?
GOD'S PERFECT HOLINESS IS THE STANDARD
15 But as he [God] which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.* ( 1Peter 1:15,16)

*LEVITICUS 11
44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#14
It is true, for some respect. When Jesus say If your hate your brother mean you kill him. In OT eyes for eyes

If you murder, you must be kill.

In OT If you hate your brother you not punish by stoned to death.

Also Paul say we not under the law anymore.
Your reading one verse and taking it at face value, Paul goes on to explain what he meant.

Just because your under grace doesn't mean you can run freely without obeying the law by no means.


How easily we could prevent confusion if we accepted exactly what the Bible says. Paul gives his own explanation of this very statement. After stating that we are not under the law but under grace, he asks, “What then?” This simply means, “How are we to understand this?”

Notice his answer. In anticipation that some will construe his words to mean that you can break the law because you are under grace, he says, “Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!” In the strongest possible language, Paul states that being under grace does not give a license to break the law. Yet this is what millions believe today, missing Paul’s clear point.

If being under grace does not exempt us from keeping the law, then what does Paul mean by saying that Christians are not under the law? He gives that answer in Romans 3:19:

“Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”

Here Paul equates being under the law with being “guilty before God.” In other words, those who are under the law are guilty of breaking it and are under the condemnation of it. This is why Christians are not under it. They are not breaking it—not guilty and condemned by it. Therefore, they are not under it but, rather, are under the power of grace instead. Later in his argument, Paul points out that the power of grace is greater than the power of sin.

This is why he states so emphatically, “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.”

Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving power to obey God’s law. This is the effective reason that we are not under the law’s guilt and condemnation and also why Paul states that we will not continue to sin.

An Example
Suppose a murderer has been sentenced to death in the electric chair. Waiting for the execution, the man would be “under the law” in every sense of the word—under the guilt, under the condemnation, and under the sentence of death. The governor reviews the condemned man’s case and, just before the execution date, gives him a full pardon. Now the man is no longer under the law but under grace. The law no longer condemns him. He is considered justified as far as the charges of the law are concerned. He is free to walk out of the prison and no policeman can lay hands on him.

But now that he is under grace and no longer under the law, can we say that he is free to break the law? Indeed not! Yet he has another reason to keep the law this time—as a loving response to the pardon. In gratitude, he will be careful to remember and honor the law of the state that granted him grace.

Is that what the Bible says about pardoned sinners? “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law” (Romans 3:31). Here is the answer to the entire problem! Paul asks if the law is nullified for us just because we have had faith in Christ’s saving grace. His answer is that the law is established and re-enforced in the life of a grace-saved Christian.

The truth of this is so simple, but the faulty reasoning of those who try to diminish obedience makes it necessary to press this point a bit further.

Have you ever been stopped by a police officer for exceeding the speed limit? It is an embarrassing experience, especially if you know you are guilty. But suppose you really were hurrying to meet a valid emergency, and you pour out your convincing explanation to the officer as he writes your ticket. Slowly he folds the ticket and tears it up, and then says, “All right, I’m going to pardon you this time, but ...” Now what do you think he means by that word "but"? Surely he means, “… but I don't want to ever catch you speeding again.” Does this pardon (grace) open the way for you to disobey the law? On the contrary, it adds compelling urgency to your decision not to disobey the law again.

Why, then, should any true Christian try to rationalize his way out of obeying the law of God? “If you love Me,” Jesus said, “keep My commandments” (John 14:15).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#15
GOD'S PERFECT HOLINESS IS THE STANDARD
15 But as he [God] which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.* ( 1Peter 1:15,16)

*LEVITICUS 11
44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
Seem to me one of OT standart is, eat creeping animal or pork defile. Jesus say, not what come into your mouth defile you, but what in your heart.
 

DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
1,936
499
83
#16
People say AS a Christian we have to live a Holy life. What is the standart of holiness?

Is law the standart? If so, we are not under the law anymore.

Can we AS a sinner live a Holy life? If not how we go to heaven without holiness

This is my personal question, please give biblical explanation
I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. ” (Galatians 2:20)

This means we need to totally surrender to Christ. To begin to do His
will and throw our own away. We no longer live in the flesh as Paul
says, but rather we live in the Spirit. This takes a lot of prayer, daily
prayer at the least. Without prayer we would continually falter in
that journey. By prayer, I mean a meditative prayer. A good way to
do that is to read 5 or 6 verses of scripture and then put the Bible
down and clear you mind of all other things so you can concentrate
on God's message. This doesn't imply that you shouldn't to petition
prayers as always.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#17
Your reading one verse and taking it at face value, Paul goes on to explain what he meant.

Just because your under grace doesn't mean you can run freely without obeying the law by no means.


How easily we could prevent confusion if we accepted exactly what the Bible says. Paul gives his own explanation of this very statement. After stating that we are not under the law but under grace, he asks, “What then?” This simply means, “How are we to understand this?”

Notice his answer. In anticipation that some will construe his words to mean that you can break the law because you are under grace, he says, “Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!” In the strongest possible language, Paul states that being under grace does not give a license to break the law. Yet this is what millions believe today, missing Paul’s clear point.

If being under grace does not exempt us from keeping the law, then what does Paul mean by saying that Christians are not under the law? He gives that answer in Romans 3:19:

“Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”

Here Paul equates being under the law with being “guilty before God.” In other words, those who are under the law are guilty of breaking it and are under the condemnation of it. This is why Christians are not under it. They are not breaking it—not guilty and condemned by it. Therefore, they are not under it but, rather, are under the power of grace instead. Later in his argument, Paul points out that the power of grace is greater than the power of sin.

This is why he states so emphatically, “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.”

Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving power to obey God’s law. This is the effective reason that we are not under the law’s guilt and condemnation and also why Paul states that we will not continue to sin.

An Example
Suppose a murderer has been sentenced to death in the electric chair. Waiting for the execution, the man would be “under the law” in every sense of the word—under the guilt, under the condemnation, and under the sentence of death. The governor reviews the condemned man’s case and, just before the execution date, gives him a full pardon. Now the man is no longer under the law but under grace. The law no longer condemns him. He is considered justified as far as the charges of the law are concerned. He is free to walk out of the prison and no policeman can lay hands on him.

But now that he is under grace and no longer under the law, can we say that he is free to break the law? Indeed not! Yet he has another reason to keep the law this time—as a loving response to the pardon. In gratitude, he will be careful to remember and honor the law of the state that granted him grace.

Is that what the Bible says about pardoned sinners? “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law” (Romans 3:31). Here is the answer to the entire problem! Paul asks if the law is nullified for us just because we have had faith in Christ’s saving grace. His answer is that the law is established and re-enforced in the life of a grace-saved Christian.

The truth of this is so simple, but the faulty reasoning of those who try to diminish obedience makes it necessary to press this point a bit further.

Have you ever been stopped by a police officer for exceeding the speed limit? It is an embarrassing experience, especially if you know you are guilty. But suppose you really were hurrying to meet a valid emergency, and you pour out your convincing explanation to the officer as he writes your ticket. Slowly he folds the ticket and tears it up, and then says, “All right, I’m going to pardon you this time, but ...” Now what do you think he means by that word "but"? Surely he means, “… but I don't want to ever catch you speeding again.” Does this pardon (grace) open the way for you to disobey the law? On the contrary, it adds compelling urgency to your decision not to disobey the law again.

Why, then, should any true Christian try to rationalize his way out of obeying the law of God? “If you love Me,” Jesus said, “keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

You are correct. Not under the law doesn't mean break the law. We not under the law, but under Christ influent, because Christ in our heart.

The fact we not murder is not because we are under the law, but because Christ own us. He purchace us with his blood. So we do not have the right to have our own Will anymore. His Will in us, his love in us. And If his love in us, we not kill other

We not kill, not because we are under the law, we not kill because He change our heart.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#18
I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. ” (Galatians 2:20)

This means we need to totally surrender to Christ. To begin to do His
will and throw our own away. We no longer live in the flesh as Paul
says, but rather we live in the Spirit. This takes a lot of prayer, daily
prayer at the least. Without prayer we would continually falter in
that journey. By prayer, I mean a meditative prayer. A good way to
do that is to read 5 or 6 verses of scripture and then put the Bible
down and clear you mind of all other things so you can concentrate
on God's message. This doesn't imply that you shouldn't to petition
prayers as always.

Yep, to be Christian or to save not only say a salvation pray in a revival meeting, and back to worldly live.

Narrow is the path to heaven.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,072
329
83
#19
People say AS a Christian we have to live a Holy life. What is the standart of holiness?

Is law the standart? If so, we are not under the law anymore.

Can we AS a sinner live a Holy life? If not how we go to heaven without holiness

This is my personal question, please give biblical explanation
The Bible says if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sin, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit and not the ways of the flesh, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able, and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

So there is no excuse why a person cannot be Christlike, although many people say they cannot abstain from sin, but they do not hate sin like they should, and want to enjoy it, so they make excuses, for even the world can abstain from sin if they want, but they sin because they are of the flesh and enjoy it.

The Bible does not say a person that confesses Christ in not under the law, but a Spirit led life is not under the law, for their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sin, so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Every time a person sins, or holds unto sin, they are back under the law until they do not want the sin, and mean it, for repenting is turning away from sin, not repenting and holding unto it and know you will do it again.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, which everybody has to fulfill the law, love God, and love people, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

And this is the definition of love. Love does not think an evil thought, rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, is not arrogant, not selfish, does not belittle people, only goes by their needs, and not their wants, and helps people with their needs if possible.

1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

God said be ye holy, for I am holy, and do people think God sins, for He does not.

So what is this holiness of God that the saints have to be the same way.

Of course it can only mean to act Christlike, and abstain from sins by the Spirit, and if God said to be holy then it is possible to be holy, for God said do not go by your former lusts of the flesh.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven, and are the angels in heaven sinning, but they are not, and the ones that did are not there anymore.

In heaven where God dwells there is no sinning going on, and that same way is supposed to be done on earth also, so it is possible to abstain from sin.

Be holy as God is holy can only mean to abstain from sins, the lusts of the flesh, and be holy which Jesus displayed to us.

Act 4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Jesus is holy, and He walked this earth being holy, so we have to be the same way.

Too many people make excuses for their sin as if they cannot help it, but God says it is possible to abstain from sins which is by the Spirit, so there is no excuse.

If you are going to sin at least admit you enjoy the sin but are not supposed to do it if you want to be right with God, but too many people do not hate sin like they should but want to enjoy it and then say they cannot abstain from sin.

What I would like to know concerning these people that say they cannot abstain from sin is who is making them sin.

Who is making these people sin, let me at them for I will rip them limb from limb making these people sin when they are trying oh so hard not to sin.

Is it anti-karma making these people sin. Is it the devil making them sin. Is it the flesh taking over and they cannot stop the flesh making them sin. Is it the sin fairy making them sin.

Who is making these people sin that they cannot abstain from sin.

What is strange is they say they cannot abstain from sin, but when they sin they enjoy the sin, so if they are so concerned with wanting not to sin, but they cannot help it and sin, why are they enjoying the sin, and anything we enjoy we do it on purpose.

No excuse.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
687
113
#20
after Jesus say If you look a woman with lust, you commit adultery.

It was in the OT, If you commit adultery, you Will be stoned to death. But standart adultery was If you have sex with your friend wife. Something that you can proof It. Now If you look non your wife woman with lust, you commit adultery.

OT standart system is not work in jesus standart system. How you stoned adulterer in their heart?

Seem to me there must be new standart for NT.
Except you are misquoting His words:

Matthew 5:27-32, “You heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone looking at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And it has been said, ‘Whoever puts away his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce. But I say to you that whoever puts away his wife, except for the matter of whoring, makes her commit adultery. And whoever marries a woman who has been put away commits adultery.”



James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”



1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

Thus I believe when Yahshua/Jesus says: "looking at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom"

The explanation of how this is in practice is explained by James here "when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death"

Also Yahshua is the standard as I said in my first post and as YHWH said in Deut 18:18-19... Yahshua is the example, the sent One we must hear and ibeym the oerfect example, the one who shows us the correct intent and intrepratation of the Law of YHWH...