What is standart of Holiness?

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Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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#41
As far as Scriptual Instructions go there is not different Instructions for different people, one set of Instructions for all the people of YHWH:

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

Isaiah 56:1-7,, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

If the guiding Spirit does not line up with the written word it is not His Spirit:

Isaiah 59:21, “As for Me, this is My covenant with them,” said יהוה: “My Spirit that is upon you, and My Words that I have put in your mouth, shall not be withdrawn from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” said יהוה, “from this time and forever.”



Yes this would be His guidance for the indivigual person and to be followed.
But the instruction in the OT may not for all people in the NT.
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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#42
Psalm 119:151-152, “You are near, O יהוה, And all Your commands are truth. Of old I have known Your witnesses, That You have founded them forever.”
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#43
We are called to live a holy life just as Jesus did. And, there are many scripture references to encourage and guide us:

Romans 12:1 and 2 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Psalm 119:9 How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to your word.
Yep, and Jesus is the standart.
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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#44
But the instruction in the OT may not for all people in the NT.
Each needs to find what they beleive IMO, a good starting point for "those turning to the Messiah" is Acts 15, where a list of Commands are given to new converts... The odd thing is people don't even believe those are right in the "NT" times.. So crazy... I guess the "mystery of Iniquity" is real huh...
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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#45
Psalm 119:151-152, “You are near, O יהוה, And all Your commands are truth. Of old I have known Your witnesses, That You have founded them forever.”
Do you mean this verse

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#46
Do you mean this verse

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Yes. Why are those basic guidelines for those "turning to YHWH" totally ignored by most "NT" believers?

Acts 15:19-21,29 “19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to YHWH, 20, but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood. 21, For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath. 29, that you abstain from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring. If you keep yourselves from these, you shall do well. Be strong!”

the Gentiles are (new converts) who are turning to YHWH.

This is not a be all end all list of COmmands this was to new converts... Yet tell most "NT" beleivers that they are to abstain from food with blood still in it and they will tell you thats done away..
 

Jackson123

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#47
1 corinthians 8

7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Compare with act 15, 1 cor 8 look deeper.

1 cor 8 give a reason why not Eat a food that has been sacrifice to idol. Not defile, AS long AS not become stumbling block to the weak.

I do not know about the blood, is Eat blood defile? It say in verse 8, food bring us near to God, not worse
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#48
1 corinthians 8

7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Compare with act 15, 1 cor 8 look deeper.

1 cor 8 give a reason why not Eat a food that has been sacrifice to idol. Not defile, AS long AS not become stumbling block to the weak.

I do not know about the blood, is Eat blood defile? It say in verse 8, food bring us near to God, not worse
SO are you saying it is ok to eat food sacrificed to idols?

In revelation it says not to:

Revelation 2:14, “But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

I trust the Messiah... He is the One we must.... hear and obey

His brother James (Yaaqob) also said the same to new converts...same as the "OT" says...

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#49
SO are you saying it is ok to eat food sacrificed to idols?

In revelation it says not to:

Revelation 2:14, “But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

I trust the Messiah... He is the One we must.... hear and obey

His brother James (Yaaqob) also said the same to new converts...same as the "OT" says...

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
I am not say ok to Eat food that has been sacrifice to idol, but Paul say food not make you near or away from God. That is what Paul say.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#50
I am not say ok to Eat food that has been sacrifice to idol, but Paul say food not make you near or away from God. That is what Paul say.
Well the Messiah clearly says that is something "against thee" and " I have this against you"


Revelation 2:14, “But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Well this I know

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
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#51
Well the Messiah clearly says that is something "against thee" and " I have this against you"


Revelation 2:14, “But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Well this I know

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
I believe Paul is consistent whit messiah. Paul say food not defile, AS long AS not become stumbling block.

Let bible interprate bible.

So when Jesus against that, mean that person Eat infront of the weak.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#52
I believe Paul is consistent whit messiah. Paul say food not defile, AS long AS not become stumbling block.

Let bible interprate bible.

So when Jesus against that, mean that person Eat infront of the weak.
ok...

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Revelation 2:14, “But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
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#53
ok...

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Revelation 2:14, “But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."
Yup, but Paul is also teach from the Holy spirit that food not defile.

Jesus say the same.

Matthew 15:11-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” 12 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” 13 He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides.[a]And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” 15 But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” 16 And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?[b] 18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#54
Yup, but Paul is also teach from the Holy spirit that food not defile.
Jesus say the same. Matthew 15:11-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” 12 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” 13 He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides.[a]And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” 15 But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” 16 And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?[b] 18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”
....this was the Pharisees accusing Yahshua's disciples for not following a talmudic law of hand washing...

verse 15 “Explain the parable to us.” ....verse 19 But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Mark 7:1-8,

1 Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed – hands, they found fault.

3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites – as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of YHWH, you hold the tradition of men!"
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#55
....this was the Pharisees accusing Yahshua's disciples for not following a talmudic law of hand washing...

verse 15 “Explain the parable to us.” ....verse 19 But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Mark 7:1-8,

1 Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed – hands, they found fault.

3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites – as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of YHWH, you hold the tradition of men!"
But Jesus say , not what go into the mouth defile, consistent whit what Paul say.

And consistent with what Jesus answere to the jews leader when they ask Jesus how to save. Jesus Replay love God and love your neigbors.

OT not to Eat pork etc, NT more spirit emphasis.

Paul teaching is not man Made teaching.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#56
But Jesus say , not what go into the mouth defile, consistent whit what Paul say.

And consistent with what Jesus answere to the jews leader when they ask Jesus how to save. Jesus Replay love God and love your neigbors.

OT not to Eat pork etc, NT more spirit emphasis.

Paul teaching is not man Made teaching.
Except there IS NOTHING about idols in Mark 7 it is about a talmudic law of hand washing...

verse 15 “Explain the parable to us.” ....verse 19 But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

The Messiah upheld the things of the Law while speaking against their man made hand washing law:

mark 7 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

all those are sins in the Torah... eating with unwashed hands is not... also this was not simply washing your hands, one had to wash their right hand, then their left, then both and say a made up prayer about how "the Name" commands hand washing... He does not...

and nothing here about idols...
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#57
Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

heaven and earth has not yet passed away...

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#58
I’ll just say that the Issue now Is faith and not sin AND we are HIS workmanship created IN JESUS unto good works.

By The Way grace doesn’t teach a person to live unGODly and every man that has this hope In them seeks to purify themselves even as they are pure.
So what your saying is you would rather avoid the ten, and presume there are meaningless today.
I gather you don't want to even say thou shall not murder.
I’m saying that If a person Is trying to keep the ten commandments that the ten commandments were given under law before JESUS died on the cross and those works will be tested to see what manner they are of meaning any rewards motivated by self will be burned up but If a person Is under grace then the Issue Is not sin but the Issue now Is faith,JESUS paid for our sin.

JESUS,the vine and we are the branches receiving sustenance from the vine and displaying spiritual fruit.

Gee Heaven forbid you honor a commandment, seems that way ( you will just say this its faith not sin )
The Two commandments?yes

The Ten Commandments are usually tried to be kept by someone looking at big sins verses small sins but remember that under law,If the person breaks the law at ANY point,then they have offended the whole law.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
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#59
Except there IS NOTHING about idols in Mark 7 it is about a talmudic law of hand washing...

verse 15 “Explain the parable to us.” ....verse 19 But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

The Messiah upheld the things of the Law while speaking against their man made hand washing law:

mark 7 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

all those are sins in the Torah... eating with unwashed hands is not... also this was not simply washing your hands, one had to wash their right hand, then their left, then both and say a made up prayer about how "the Name" commands hand washing... He does not...

and nothing here about idols...
But I believe Paul teaching is from Holy Spirit and Paul teach about food in the context of the food that has been sacrificed to idol.