What is the COVENANT of Daniel 9:27?

[watcher2013]

Daniel 9:27 (NASB)

... It may be a friendship treaty, a non-aggression treaty, or a guarantee of military assistance against any nation attacking Israel.
But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering

so you are not sure if the covenant is a peace treaty?

or simply, you do not know what the covenant is...

Let me guess, you also do not know who the Anti-Christ is?

Assuming that you do not know who the Anti-Christ is, here is your view about this passage:

1. you do not know, who the Anti-Christ is
2. and you do not know the covenant

basically you do not know the PASSAGE...

 

[zone]

No. You simply obey the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15 and compare Scripture with Scripture (1 Cor. 2:13), and then it becomes clear that the antichrist is the one being referenced in Daniel 9:27.

could you produce The Antichrist from scripture please?

 

[zone]

Nope. because it was never stated a new covenant would be made now was their?

And you thought you had me?? Try again..

jesus made a new covenant with his blood. It was not a covenant made for just 1 week. it was an eternal covenant. But if you want his covenant of blood to only be for 1 weeks. Thats up to you. I guess we all are doomed, Because his covenant is over! It ended 7 years after he as you say "confirmed it" So are we back to law now? since his "new covenant" has expired?

oh i see what is happening here.

"It was not a covenant made for just 1 week"

...

but....where in Daniel 9 does it say the covenant (whether it's the New Covenant in Chris't blood - OR a 7 year peace treaty with Israel) ends or is broken?

where?

 

[zone]

No. It says it is a new kingdom

The iron was ONE KINGDOM.

the TOES are another (although holds the same identity of the first kingdom)

could you document these assertions EG?

re: the toes are a new kingdom separate from the Iron, yet holds the same identity as the Iron? (i'm assuming this is your background for the revived roman empire in the future).

your documentation needs to be exactly the way you present it.
no eisegesis. no personal narrative.

Jesus did not destroy Rome with his first coming. Where do you get this crap?

one day (i hope) these words will ring in your ears and they'll be red with shame.

you don't know what the stone cut without hands WAS AND IS.
where's the Roman Empire that existed in Christ's day EG?

imploded. gone.

what survived it? the Lord's church - the stone cut out of the mountain Israel.
the Stone the builders rejected being the Chief Cornerstone.

it was around for a few hundred years, with the same power LONG after he left![/COLOR]

were you, like the jews, expecting Jesus (The Messiah) to bring down fire on Rome and shed blood while He walked the earth?
to be a military and political DESPOT?

How do you expect me to buy into your arguments when they can easily be seen as not lining up with what really happened?

you don't know what happened....apparently.

 

[watcher2013]

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:


after. after the 69th.
following it.
the 69th is over, then after Messiah shall be cut off.

that means either:

He was cut off in a vacuum of mystery non-time space

OR

He was cut off in the following week - the 70th.

I couldn't agree more:

but let us discuss this possibility:
Dan 9:25 Knowtherefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment torestore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be sevenweeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and thewall, even in troublous times.

This passage was clear as to when will the first event begin:
1. from the going forth of the commandment to restore Jerusalem

2. and its ending was:
Unto Messiah the Prince

Now it did not say that the ending will be when the messiah will be cut off, or when the Messiah will be born or etcJust Messiah the Prince)

3. Duration of first event:
It said seven weeks and three score and two weeks (7+62) or (62+7) = overall 69 weeks

Now lets go to verse 26:

Dn 9:26 And afterthreescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and thepeople of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the wardesolations are determined.

Remember the first event was from the commandment to build up to Messiah the Prince:
First event: from commandment --------> Messiah
1. The (7+62) includes the restoration of Jerusalem,
a. Jerusalem was restored/ the streets and wall were built. (completed)
2. The (7+62) also includes up unto Messiah the Prince
a. Messiah came
b. Messiah cut off (completed)

Note:
the temple was built 3 years less of the 49 years but still within the 7 weeks (7x7=49)
Joh 2:20 Then saidthe Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rearit up in three days?

Now if the 7 weeks was referring to the construction of temple, and if the 62 weeks will be reckon from that... then the end of 69 weeks is also 3 years AFTER the 62 weeks, but still falls within the 69 weeks period.

Is it possible then that the end of 69 weeks can also be referring after 62 weeks?

I would say YES, considering the Above:

Also Is it possible that When Daniel 9:25 say "unto Messiah the Prince" it also refers as to when the Messiah was cut off:

I would say Yes, considering the above and the whole 7+62 weeks deals with the completion of the Restoration of Jerusalem; thus it also deals with the completed work of the Messiah.

And In case It was not the Above:
A DAY after can be considered as AFTER,

Having said all that, your two views are also possible.

 

[zone]

I couldn't agree more:

but let us discuss this possibility:
Dan 9:25 Knowtherefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment torestore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be sevenweeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and thewall, even in troublous times.

This passage was clear as to when will the first event begin:
1. from the going forth of the commandment to restore Jerusalem

2. and its ending was:
Unto Messiah the Prince

Now it did not say that the ending will be when the messiah will be cut off, or when the Messiah will be born or etcJust Messiah the Prince)

3. Duration of first event:
It said seven weeks and three score and two weeks (7+62) or (62+7) = overall 69 weeks

Now lets go to verse 26:

Dn 9:26 And afterthreescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and thepeople of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the wardesolations are determined.

Remember the first event was from the commandment to build up to Messiah the Prince:
First event: from commandment --------> Messiah
1. The (7+62) includes the restoration of Jerusalem,
a. Jerusalem was restored/ the streets and wall were built. (completed)
2. The (7+62) also includes up unto Messiah the Prince
a. Messiah came
b. Messiah cut off (completed)

Note:
the temple was built 3 years less of the 49 years but still within the 7 weeks (7x7=49)
Joh 2:20 Then saidthe Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rearit up in three days?

Now if the 7 weeks was referring to the construction of temple, and if the 62 weeks will be reckon from that... then the end of 69 weeks is also 3 years AFTER the 62 weeks, but still falls within the 69 weeks period.

Is it possible then that the end of 69 weeks can also be referring after 62 weeks?

I would say YES, considering the Above:

Also Is it possible that When Daniel 9:25 say "unto Messiah the Prince" it also refers as to when the Messiah was cut off:

I would say Yes, considering the above and the whole 7+62 weeks deals with the completion of the Restoration of Jerusalem; thus it also deals with the completed work of the Messiah.

And In case It was not the Above:
A DAY after can be considered as AFTER,

Having said all that, your two views are also possible.

that works too
i don't know how we have a prophecy clearly laid out as 490 years...that isn't really 490 years.

if we agree Messiah accomplished what He came for...no arguments here.

~

‘to finish the transgression’

'to make an end of sins’

‘to make reconciliation for iniquity’

‘to bring in everlasting righteousness’

‘to seal up the vision and prophecy’

'to anoint the most Holy'

~

if He didn't accomplish all that why would we believe anything at all in scripture?
why would we be Christians - if all this was still future?
nah. that is what He came to do.

amen

k....cool

 

[BradC]

that works too
i don't know how we have a prophecy clearly laid out as 490 years...that isn't really 490 years.

if we agree Messiah accomplished what He came for...no arguments here.

~

‘to finish the transgression’

'to make an end of sins’

‘to make reconciliation for iniquity’

‘to bring in everlasting righteousness’

‘to seal up the vision and prophecy’

'to anoint the most Holy'

~

if He didn't accomplish all that why would we believe anything at all in scripture?
why would we be Christians - if all this was still future?
nah. that is what He came to do.

amen

k....cool

This post coming from someone who does not believe in a literal 1,000 year reign with Christ taking place after the great tribulation period followed by Christ's return. So what they do is apply that 1,000 years figuratively to a different dispensation of time (before the second coming) because the 1,000 years has already passed (over 1,000 year mark) and Christ still has not come according to their doctrine. It's no wonder that some on earth that listen to these amillennialist are asking, 'where is the promise of his coming'? This is how bogus their doctrine is that they spend night and day trying to persuade others to believe.

 

[watcher2013]

that works too
i don't know how we have a prophecy clearly laid out as 490 years...that isn't really 490 years.

if we agree Messiah accomplished what He came for...no arguments here.

~

‘to finish the transgression’

'to make an end of sins’

‘to make reconciliation for iniquity’

‘to bring in everlasting righteousness’

‘to seal up the vision and prophecy’

'to anoint the most Holy'

~

if He didn't accomplish all that why would we believe anything at all in scripture?
why would we be Christians - if all this was still future?
nah. that is what He came to do.

amen

k....cool

How about this zone:

let us say

46 years (building of temple)+ 434 years -62 weeks+3years of Jesus ministry = 69 weeks (483 years)
plus the last week of 7 years: 490 years

You have satisfy after 62 weeks Messiah was cut off
you have your baptism of Jesus
you have the ministry of Jesus (Which by the way ranges from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years)

I Agree that all listed about the people (Israel) sins/transgression/righteousness etc were fulfilled by Christ at the cross. (to those who believed)

But do not forget the Jews were blinded and as such they can't see this.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

could you produce The Antichrist from scripture please?

Hi there Zone, sure. I can show you that by comparing Scripture with Scripture, that you can indeed see that it is the antichrist which is referenced in Daniel 9:27.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.



Mark 13:14-19 KJV
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: [15] And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein , to take any thing out of his house: [16] And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. [17] But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [18] And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. [19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.




Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand [16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.



Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Laodicea]

*[[Dan 9:24]] KJV* Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The word determined in this verse means cut off from something. Since it is referring to a period of time then the 70 weeks or 490 years would be cut off from a larger period of time, so what period of time is the 490 years cut off from?

 

[Laodicea]

*[[Dan 9:23]] KJV* At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel is told in this verse to consider the vision. As there is no vision in Daniel 9 then what vision is the angel referring to?

 

[GRA]

*[[Dan 9:24]] KJV* Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The word determined in this verse means cut off from something. Since it is referring to a period of time then the 70 weeks or 490 years would be cut off from a larger period of time, so what period of time is the 490 years cut off from?

It is not so much a matter of a longer period of time as it is the changing of the "context" of the relationship.

It is about God "cutting off" His "dealings" with Israel as a nation.

 

[GRA]

*[[Dan 9:23]] KJV* At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel is told in this verse to consider the vision. As there is no vision in Daniel 9 then what vision is the angel referring to?

"Go back one chapter..."

 

[Laodicea]

"Go back one chapter..."

Daniel 8:26-27 KJV
(26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
(27) And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.
Daniel 9:23 KJV
(23) At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

The last thing mentioned in Daniel 8 is about a vision on time (2300 days) and the first thing mentioned by Gabriel is about time. As there is no vision in Daniel 9 then it is giving more explanation of the vision that was not understood, the vision of time.

Gabriel told Daniel: “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city.” (Daniel 9:24, KJV). The word “determined” in the Hebrew is chatak. It can mean “to cut, to decide, to decree, to ordain, to appoint.” The New English Bible translates it “marked out.” The word appears only this time in the Hebrew Bible but in Mishnaic Hebrew it is frequently used in a literal sense to describe the act of cutting off parts of animals for the sacrificial service, the cutting off of the foreskin in circumcision, the cutting off of a lamp wick and a miner cutting out ore from a mountain. Figuratively, the word is also used to describe the act of cutting or dividing a Bible verse into two parts for study. The root meaning of this word, then, appears to be “cut off.” Now, when something is cut off, it must be cut off from something! For example, if you are going to cut a branch off a tree there must be a tree to cut it off from!! This being the case, we must ask: “From what are the seventy weeks cut off?” The answer is simple: It must have been cut off from the larger prophecy of the 2300 days/years.

 

[konroh]

Dan. ch. 8 has been historically documented, Alexander the Great, Medes and Persians, Antioches Epiphanes, 2300 days. Nowhere in Scripture is a reference to evening and morning not referring to a 24 hour period.

Dan. 9 refers to 490 years, but the Jewish year only had 360 days, so it's about 483 years by the Gregorian Calendar (ours). It doesn't have correlation with the 2300 days. Notice that Daniel is writing in the middle of the 70 year captivity of the nation of Judah, which itself was punishment for the nation not obeying 490 years of Sabbath rests. Daniel then receives the prophecy that seventy weeks of years are "cut off, appointed" for your people. Cut off in the sense of being apportioned. What an awesome idea for Daniel to recognize the divine timing of God, that He controls the universe down to the day. Notice also that there were gaps in the 490 years the Sabbath rest wasn't kept, there are also gaps in the 490 years yet givien, particularly between the 69th and 70th week.

 

[Laodicea]

Dan. ch. 8 has been historically documented, Alexander the Great, Medes and Persians, Antioches Epiphanes, 2300 days. Nowhere in Scripture is a reference to evening and morning not referring to a 24 hour period.

Dan. 9 refers to 490 years, but the Jewish year only had 360 days, so it's about 483 years by the Gregorian Calendar (ours). It doesn't have correlation with the 2300 days. Notice that Daniel is writing in the middle of the 70 year captivity of the nation of Judah, which itself was punishment for the nation not obeying 490 years of Sabbath rests. Daniel then receives the prophecy that seventy weeks of years are "cut off, appointed" for your people. Cut off in the sense of being apportioned. What an awesome idea for Daniel to recognize the divine timing of God, that He controls the universe down to the day. Notice also that there were gaps in the 490 years the Sabbath rest wasn't kept, there are also gaps in the 490 years yet givien, particularly between the 69th and 70th week.

Antioches Epiphanes is not the little horn of Daniel 7 & 8. Read attachment file for more info. The quote is a part of the attachment file

To avoid and obscure the clear light of prophecy, the theory was advanced that one of the Syrian kings,

Antiochus Epiphanes was the little horn of both Daniel 7 and 8. Let us consider the facts.


LITTLE HORN OF DANIEL 7, IS IT ROMAN OR SYRIAN?

1."Little horn" rose out of ten divisions of Rome. Therefore it is Roman.Daniel7:7, 8.


2.To say this prophecy applied to Antiochus is to teach all was fulfilled before Christ and thus Daniel was

merely a historian and not a prophet.


3.This view is held by the modernist schools which reject Daniel as a prophet.


4. Christ upheld Daniel the prophet.

 

[thebelievernchrist]

that is a very good question the angel Gabriel had came down to give him the gift of understanding. remember he was praying. repenting for himself and the people of isreal...that's key..god gave him the gift of unstanding...think about it.....no more listening to the llies..but his gift was to understand a vision..

 

[GRA]

jesus made a new covenant with his blood. It was not a covenant made for just 1 week. it was an eternal covenant. But if you want his covenant of blood to only be for 1 weeks. Thats up to you. I guess we all are doomed, Because his covenant is over! It ended 7 years after he as you say "confirmed it" So are we back to law now? since his "new covenant" has expired?

oh i see what is happening here.

"It was not a covenant made for just 1 week"

It does not say that it was a 1-week covenant - which would 'end' or 'expire' after 1 week.

It says that the confirming of the covenant was for 1 week.

 

[VCO]

so you are not sure if the covenant is a peace treaty?

or simply, you do not know what the covenant is...

Let me guess, you also do not know who the Anti-Christ is?

Assuming that you do not know who the Anti-Christ is, here is your view about this passage:

1. you do not know, who the Anti-Christ is
2. and you do not know the covenant

basically you do not know the PASSAGE...

Oh, it has to be some kind of peace treaty, that brings what the Jews want the most. The right to build the third temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Right now the Muslims still seem to be in total control of that Temple Mount.

The Anti-christ will be revealed WHEN we the Church are removed from the earth. How do I know that?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-10 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And you know what is restraining him now {the Holy Spirit in all of us true Believers} so that he may be revealed in his time.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

The LORD promised that the HOLY SPIRIT will NEVER LEAVE US. Since HIS WRATH is going to be poured out upon the WHOLE EARTH in the Book of Revelation, the time of the Anti-christ, then the Holy Spirit IS going back to heaven to be out of the way. THEREFORE we have to go with HIM because it says HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US. Notice it says the Holy Spirit will go to where HE is out of the way, THEN the lawless one, (the Anti-christ), will be revealed.

SO NO, we do not know exactly who he is, HOWEVER, because of the Vision of the Statue that Daniel explained to the King of Babylon, had toes of IRON mixed with Clay, we know it is a revival of the IRON EMPIRE. The Iron Empire was the old Roman Empire, and NOW we have the European Union made up of most of the SAME territory as the original Roman Empire. Therefore if we were to make a very educated guess, we would have to come up with the Anti-christ being the ruler invited to rule over the ENTIRE, revived Roman Empire; the European Union. They have not picked a single all powerful RULER over every Country in the European Union, but I HIGHLY SUSPECT THEY WILL "SOON, and Very SOON".

Andrae Crouch *Soon And Very Soon* "Live" - YouTube

 

[thebelievernchrist]

let me start out by saying sorry. I read dan. 9:20 not 27. pls. forgive and father forgive me. 9:20 daniel was praying and Gabriel came to him and gave him a gift of understanding. in dan9:27 he talks of a covenant its a pact for one week but in the middle of the week they must bring an end to sacrifice and offering.the reason was for jesus.
once again my eyes are old and I didn't mean to decieve you that was defiantly not my intention
praise be you abba father for correcting me and bless this person for seeking you and the truth in your word.