What is the COVENANT of Daniel 9:27?
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In the Passage, Daniel was given the importance of building Jerusalem:
in fact here what it say
Dan 9:25 Knowtherefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment torestore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be sevenweeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and thewall, even in troublous times.
The building of Jerusalem was included in the first 69 weeks: not the last week.
and nowhere in the last week it said anything about rebuilding, but rather the opposite:
What we have within the last week was the taking away of the daily sacrifices and oblation.
But in consideration of your view, that the covenant has to be some kind of a peace treaty:
1. You are not sure of your view: "some kind of" a peace treaty
2. This some kind of a peace treaty, will be confirmed as per your view by the Anti-Christ, Which also you do not know.
3. That some kind of peace treaty has to be related to the building of the temple? Why it has to be related to the building of the temple, when the prophecy was clear that the rebuilding of Jerusalem was in the first 69 weeks?
4. Obviously you cannot named a nation Israel will make a peace treaty with, because you are still not sure of your view...
5. Since you are not sure what is the covenant/some kind of peace treaty, and since the one who will confirmed it is the Anti-Christ based on your view and since the antichrist will only be revealed at the midst of the week (sitting in the temple making himself God as many believes who holds the same view as yours) ,
What you are saying basically is that even if this peace treaty was confirmed in front of your very eyes you will not know it...
I have highlighted in Red that important things you missed:
The day referred by Paul in verse 1 includes: The coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto him and in verse 3 paul was very clear:
For that day WILL NOT COME: you see the condition here...IT WILL NOT COME..UNLESS....
1. Rebellion comes
2. The Man of lawlessness is revealed.
so the Man of Lawlessness must be revealed before the gathering and the coming of the Lord.
Your story about the Holy spirit is very creative, however to refer the Holy Spirit to the one who restrains the lawless one and not present here during the reign of the Anti-Christ is somewhat stretching it too far.
LET ME ASK YOU, BY WHAT POWER WILL THE TWO WITNESSES PERFORM THEIR MIRACLES?
Check your history, The Roman Empire was divided into two, The West and The East Empire.
The West = the European Part
The East = Muslim/Arabs Part
and Biblically, from Rev 17:8 ....when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
John was shown the vision of Revelation during the Roman conquest and Yet he was clear that the Beast IS NOT, But it was:
based on what John saw and contrary to your understanding: the Beast to come is the revival of the previous Beast not the present (roman).
And Rev 13: describe the beast as like a leopard with feet of bear and mouth of Lion (a revival of the three previous Beast), Confirming Rev 17:8.
in fact here what it say
Dan 9:25 Knowtherefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment torestore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be sevenweeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and thewall, even in troublous times.
The building of Jerusalem was included in the first 69 weeks: not the last week.
and nowhere in the last week it said anything about rebuilding, but rather the opposite:
What we have within the last week was the taking away of the daily sacrifices and oblation.
But in consideration of your view, that the covenant has to be some kind of a peace treaty:
1. You are not sure of your view: "some kind of" a peace treaty
2. This some kind of a peace treaty, will be confirmed as per your view by the Anti-Christ, Which also you do not know.
3. That some kind of peace treaty has to be related to the building of the temple? Why it has to be related to the building of the temple, when the prophecy was clear that the rebuilding of Jerusalem was in the first 69 weeks?
4. Obviously you cannot named a nation Israel will make a peace treaty with, because you are still not sure of your view...
5. Since you are not sure what is the covenant/some kind of peace treaty, and since the one who will confirmed it is the Anti-Christ based on your view and since the antichrist will only be revealed at the midst of the week (sitting in the temple making himself God as many believes who holds the same view as yours) ,
What you are saying basically is that even if this peace treaty was confirmed in front of your very eyes you will not know it...
I have highlighted in Red that important things you missed:
The day referred by Paul in verse 1 includes: The coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto him and in verse 3 paul was very clear:
For that day WILL NOT COME: you see the condition here...IT WILL NOT COME..UNLESS....
1. Rebellion comes
2. The Man of lawlessness is revealed.
so the Man of Lawlessness must be revealed before the gathering and the coming of the Lord.
Your story about the Holy spirit is very creative, however to refer the Holy Spirit to the one who restrains the lawless one and not present here during the reign of the Anti-Christ is somewhat stretching it too far.
LET ME ASK YOU, BY WHAT POWER WILL THE TWO WITNESSES PERFORM THEIR MIRACLES?
Check your history, The Roman Empire was divided into two, The West and The East Empire.
The West = the European Part
The East = Muslim/Arabs Part
and Biblically, from Rev 17:8 ....when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
John was shown the vision of Revelation during the Roman conquest and Yet he was clear that the Beast IS NOT, But it was:
based on what John saw and contrary to your understanding: the Beast to come is the revival of the previous Beast not the present (roman).
And Rev 13: describe the beast as like a leopard with feet of bear and mouth of Lion (a revival of the three previous Beast), Confirming Rev 17:8.
Daniel 8 refers to a vision about the Medes/Persian and the Grecian:
Daniel 8 vision appeared to Daniel during the reign of King Belshazzar:
Daniel 9 was during the first year reign of Darius
Daniel 9 - Daniel remember the prophecy given to Jeremiah
Dan9:2 In the first year of his reign IDaniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of theLORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years inthe desolations of Jerusalem:
Daniel Understand the Years (seventy Years)
then prayed
Dan 9:23 At thebeginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come toshew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, andconsider the vision.
Gabriel came to show:
a new prophecy relating to the prophecy of Jeremiah after the seventy years of desolation:
Note the prophecy:
Dan 9:25 Knowtherefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment torestore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be sevenweeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and thewall, even in troublous times.
Here's the Know and Here's the understand.
Daniel understood the Desolation of 70 years, but after that Daniel do not know what will happen to them:
So he prayed that God forgive them....
Dan 9:16 O Lord,according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thyfury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for oursins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people arebecome a reproach to all that are about us.
So Daniel was given knowledge and understanding:
about Rebuilding of Jerusalem ...unto the Messiah and its subsequent destruction.
The end of sins/transgression...etc
All in the prayer of Daniel.
Daniel 8 though parallel in time is not the vision of Daniel 9, and to pick the 2300 days from Daniel 8 as part of the seventy weeks will require proving the breakdown of the whole 2300 evening and mornings and where the seventy weeks was cut off.
Daniel 8 vision appeared to Daniel during the reign of King Belshazzar:
Daniel 9 was during the first year reign of Darius
Daniel 9 - Daniel remember the prophecy given to Jeremiah
Dan9:2 In the first year of his reign IDaniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of theLORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years inthe desolations of Jerusalem:
Daniel Understand the Years (seventy Years)
then prayed
Dan 9:23 At thebeginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come toshew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, andconsider the vision.
Gabriel came to show:
a new prophecy relating to the prophecy of Jeremiah after the seventy years of desolation:
Note the prophecy:
Dan 9:25 Knowtherefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment torestore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be sevenweeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and thewall, even in troublous times.
Here's the Know and Here's the understand.
Daniel understood the Desolation of 70 years, but after that Daniel do not know what will happen to them:
So he prayed that God forgive them....
Dan 9:16 O Lord,according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thyfury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for oursins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people arebecome a reproach to all that are about us.
So Daniel was given knowledge and understanding:
about Rebuilding of Jerusalem ...unto the Messiah and its subsequent destruction.
The end of sins/transgression...etc
All in the prayer of Daniel.
Daniel 8 though parallel in time is not the vision of Daniel 9, and to pick the 2300 days from Daniel 8 as part of the seventy weeks will require proving the breakdown of the whole 2300 evening and mornings and where the seventy weeks was cut off.
The little horn of Dan. 7 is not the same as the small horn of Dan. 8 which comes out of Greece, where the little horn of Dan. 7 comes out of the 10-nation conferacy. The part about the little horn (Antichrist) of Dan. 7 is still future, but Dan. 8 with Antioches Epiphanes and the 2300 days has been historically fulfilled. 1 Maccabees 1-6 shows this I believe.
The purpose of the 70 weeks of Daniel are to
bring the rebellion to an end: what rebellion? the rebellion of the Jewish people who were in the midst of captivity and punishment by God, no more will Jewish people rebel after the 70th week, they will all know God, this is the "all Israel who will be saved" of Rom. 11:26
to put a stop to sin: the Messiah fulfilled this in His sacrifice but not fully, the Jewish people are still sinning, many do not believe in the Messiah
to wipe away injustice: Jesus will come with great power and destroy the enemies of His people, He will judge with justice, can we really say that this is accomplished now? I see injustice everywhere
to bring in everlasting righteousness: Jesus truly is our righteousness, but this implies that everlasting rightesousness will be on the earth, the prophecy is about "your people and your holy city" the Jewish remnant and Jerusalem. Jesus did die in Jerusalem and brought everlasting righteousness to all who believe, but the millenial kingdom will truly bring everlasting righteousness to the earth, the 70th week will bring it in.
to seal up vision and prophecy: this refers to setting a stamp of approval on many of the visions that Daniel has seen, so much of Daniel's prophecies were fulfilled in the intertestamental period but when the 70th week transpires with all it's climax, this will be the ultimate fulfillment
to anoint the most holy (place): I realize that the word place has to be inferred from the Hebrew, but this exact phrase occurs in Ezek. 45:3 referring to the future temple. The fact is that this Hebrew phrase in the way it's given here never refers to a person, only things or a place. Literally the Hebrew says, to anoint the holy holy.
With all this in mind, the 7 year covenant made by the prince of the people to come has never began yet. For all the quibbling about what kind of peace treaty it is, there is no documented historical evidence of anyone making a 7 year treaty, or even confirming a 7 year treaty with the nation of Israel, and then breaking it in the middle, putting a stop to sacrifice. The onus is on the preterist to show where this has happened. All the details in Daniel about the Babylonian kingdom, the Medes and Persians, Alexander the Great, Antioches Ephiphanes have been fulfilled. Even secular historians acknowledge this, which is why they reject the time period of Daniel making such detailed prophecies centuries before they occurred.
As to the problem with the Holy Spirit being the restrainer of 1 Thess 2, the solution of the Holy Spirit indwelling Christians and this restraining the Antichrist makes sense in light of the fact that only God can restrain Satan. The fact that there will be people who have the Holy Spirit after this in the tribulation, all believers who come to Christ, the 144K, the 2 witnesses, doesn't negate this viewpoint. The restrainer is taken away, the Antichrist comes to power, and the Holy Spirit again starts to indwell believers, once again leading to Christ who ultimately takes the Beast down. To say that the restrainer is human government or something else makes a mockery of the antiChrist's power, does human government really restrain Satan?
The purpose of the 70 weeks of Daniel are to
bring the rebellion to an end: what rebellion? the rebellion of the Jewish people who were in the midst of captivity and punishment by God, no more will Jewish people rebel after the 70th week, they will all know God, this is the "all Israel who will be saved" of Rom. 11:26
to put a stop to sin: the Messiah fulfilled this in His sacrifice but not fully, the Jewish people are still sinning, many do not believe in the Messiah
to wipe away injustice: Jesus will come with great power and destroy the enemies of His people, He will judge with justice, can we really say that this is accomplished now? I see injustice everywhere
to bring in everlasting righteousness: Jesus truly is our righteousness, but this implies that everlasting rightesousness will be on the earth, the prophecy is about "your people and your holy city" the Jewish remnant and Jerusalem. Jesus did die in Jerusalem and brought everlasting righteousness to all who believe, but the millenial kingdom will truly bring everlasting righteousness to the earth, the 70th week will bring it in.
to seal up vision and prophecy: this refers to setting a stamp of approval on many of the visions that Daniel has seen, so much of Daniel's prophecies were fulfilled in the intertestamental period but when the 70th week transpires with all it's climax, this will be the ultimate fulfillment
to anoint the most holy (place): I realize that the word place has to be inferred from the Hebrew, but this exact phrase occurs in Ezek. 45:3 referring to the future temple. The fact is that this Hebrew phrase in the way it's given here never refers to a person, only things or a place. Literally the Hebrew says, to anoint the holy holy.
With all this in mind, the 7 year covenant made by the prince of the people to come has never began yet. For all the quibbling about what kind of peace treaty it is, there is no documented historical evidence of anyone making a 7 year treaty, or even confirming a 7 year treaty with the nation of Israel, and then breaking it in the middle, putting a stop to sacrifice. The onus is on the preterist to show where this has happened. All the details in Daniel about the Babylonian kingdom, the Medes and Persians, Alexander the Great, Antioches Ephiphanes have been fulfilled. Even secular historians acknowledge this, which is why they reject the time period of Daniel making such detailed prophecies centuries before they occurred.
As to the problem with the Holy Spirit being the restrainer of 1 Thess 2, the solution of the Holy Spirit indwelling Christians and this restraining the Antichrist makes sense in light of the fact that only God can restrain Satan. The fact that there will be people who have the Holy Spirit after this in the tribulation, all believers who come to Christ, the 144K, the 2 witnesses, doesn't negate this viewpoint. The restrainer is taken away, the Antichrist comes to power, and the Holy Spirit again starts to indwell believers, once again leading to Christ who ultimately takes the Beast down. To say that the restrainer is human government or something else makes a mockery of the antiChrist's power, does human government really restrain Satan?
The Little horn of Daniel 7 arises out of the ten horns and of the 4th Kingdom
Dan 7:24 And the tenhorns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shallrise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subduethree kings.
while the Little horn of the Daniel 8 arises of four horns and of the Third Kingdom (Grecian)
Dan 8:8-9 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and whenhe was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable onestoward the four winds of heaven. v9 Andout of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great,toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
TWO DIFFERENT LITTLE HORNS.
The rest of your comment we have discussed privately...no need for me to response.
There was no 7 year peace treaty confirmed in the past:
What we have in the past was:
The invasion of Galilee in 67AD during the Roman-Jewish war, the destruction of City and sanctuary and the taking away of daily sacrifices in the 70AD and the end of war at mount Masada bet 73-74. (Seven years of war defending the covenant) just like what mattathias did during the macabean revolt.
At what point the Holy spirit will be taken away and at what point the Holy Spirit will come back again? for how long will the holy spirit be taken away?
The Holy spirit will not be taken away just to suit your belief...
Biblically a much more credible restrainer is Michael the archAngel
Jud 1:9 Yet Michaelthe archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body ofMoses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lordrebuke thee.
Rev 12:7 And therewas war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and thedragon fought and his angels, v:8 Andprevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
You see, not only the HS can prevail against the Dragon. and that is a biblical TRUTH.
The Anti-Christ will come to power for 3.5 years and make war with the saints (most believed this to be Israel)
The protector/prince of Israel is Archangel Michael.
Dan 10:21 But I willshew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none thatholdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Once Archangel Michael was taken out of the way...Israel will be vulnerable for invasion.
Dan 12:1 And at thattime shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the childrenof thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was sincethere was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall bedelivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
L
Daniel 8:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And out of one of them(four winds) came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
The little horn of Daniel 8 comes out of one of the four winds not from one of the four horns
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And out of one of them(four winds) came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
The little horn of Daniel 8 comes out of one of the four winds not from one of the four horns
D
Here's my take on Daniel 
25-27
9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
This is talking about the Decree by the king of Medo-Persia to allow the Jews who had been enslaved by the Babylonians to go back to Jerusalem and re-build the city and their temple. This decree and the details of the re-building of the temple and the city of Jerusalem that were destroyed by the Babylonians can be found in the books of Nehemiah and Ezra. 1:1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
1:2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
1:3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.
As you notice, the time from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah is divided into 2 parts, 7 weeks, and 62 weeks. the 7 weeks, which we know to be 7 groups of 7 years or a total of 49 years is the time it took to build the temple and the city of Jerusalem. then another 434 years pass before the Messiah is crucified, or "cut off". So the total number of years from the kings decree to rebuild Jerusalem until Jesus is crucified is 483 years.
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
So here's the 62 groups of 7 years or 434 years after Jerusalem had been rebuilt that Jesus is "cut off, but not for Himself". He wasn't crucified for His own sins but for ours.
"and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;"
So here it's saying that the City of Jerusalem and the temple that was rebuilt by the jews at the proclamation of King Cyrus 434 years earlier will be destroyed again by another people of a prince that shall come. So, when did this happen? In 70 A.D. when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and completely tore the temple down, piece by piece.
9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
So now we're talking about the 70th week. The 70th week does not fall immediately after the 69th week because some things happen during the 70th week that haven't happened yet. He confirms a covenant with many nations for 1 period of 7 years. This covenant is a peace treaty that he makes to restore peace in the middle east and allow the jews to begin animal sacrifices for the sins of the people again. Since the last temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. we know that another temple has to be built in order for the Jews to begin there religious worship again, "pick up where, they left off " so to speak.
"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,"
So half way through the 7 year agreement, he breaks it off and causes all religious worship to cease.
25-279:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
This is talking about the Decree by the king of Medo-Persia to allow the Jews who had been enslaved by the Babylonians to go back to Jerusalem and re-build the city and their temple. This decree and the details of the re-building of the temple and the city of Jerusalem that were destroyed by the Babylonians can be found in the books of Nehemiah and Ezra. 1:1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
1:2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
1:3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.
As you notice, the time from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah is divided into 2 parts, 7 weeks, and 62 weeks. the 7 weeks, which we know to be 7 groups of 7 years or a total of 49 years is the time it took to build the temple and the city of Jerusalem. then another 434 years pass before the Messiah is crucified, or "cut off". So the total number of years from the kings decree to rebuild Jerusalem until Jesus is crucified is 483 years.
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
So here's the 62 groups of 7 years or 434 years after Jerusalem had been rebuilt that Jesus is "cut off, but not for Himself". He wasn't crucified for His own sins but for ours.
"and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;"
So here it's saying that the City of Jerusalem and the temple that was rebuilt by the jews at the proclamation of King Cyrus 434 years earlier will be destroyed again by another people of a prince that shall come. So, when did this happen? In 70 A.D. when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and completely tore the temple down, piece by piece.
9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
So now we're talking about the 70th week. The 70th week does not fall immediately after the 69th week because some things happen during the 70th week that haven't happened yet. He confirms a covenant with many nations for 1 period of 7 years. This covenant is a peace treaty that he makes to restore peace in the middle east and allow the jews to begin animal sacrifices for the sins of the people again. Since the last temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. we know that another temple has to be built in order for the Jews to begin there religious worship again, "pick up where, they left off " so to speak.
"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,"
So half way through the 7 year agreement, he breaks it off and causes all religious worship to cease.
D
This is a continuation of my last post since I didn't have time to finish it.
in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
In the middle of the 7 years he stops all religious worship and this is the time he sets himself up as God in the temple and commands the whole world to worship Him. That's another reason we know there has to be another temple built in Jerusalem because the bible states that the AC will set Himself up as God in the temple. Since no temple has been built since the Romans tore the last one down in 70A.D. then we know that this is something that is yet to occur in the future.
"and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,"
This is literally talking about the abomination of Desolation mentioned by Jesus in Mathew 24. When the AC sets himself up as god an image of himself is built and placed in the temple and the whole world will have to fall down and worship this image or be killed. The ac's abominations will be so widespread that nit will make everything and everyone desolate. Until the consummation simply means until the end, when jesus come back.
in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
In the middle of the 7 years he stops all religious worship and this is the time he sets himself up as God in the temple and commands the whole world to worship Him. That's another reason we know there has to be another temple built in Jerusalem because the bible states that the AC will set Himself up as God in the temple. Since no temple has been built since the Romans tore the last one down in 70A.D. then we know that this is something that is yet to occur in the future.
"and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,"
This is literally talking about the abomination of Desolation mentioned by Jesus in Mathew 24. When the AC sets himself up as god an image of himself is built and placed in the temple and the whole world will have to fall down and worship this image or be killed. The ac's abominations will be so widespread that nit will make everything and everyone desolate. Until the consummation simply means until the end, when jesus come back.
G
Daniel 9:
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Verse 24 describes what is to be accomplished during the 70 weeks:
~ to finish the transgression
The finishing of the transgression was the crucifying of Christ.
~ and to make an end of sins
~ and to make reconciliation for iniquity
~ and to bring in everlasting righteousness
Fully accomplished by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
~ and to seal up the vision and prophecy
Complete fulfillment by the end of the 70 weeks.
~ and to anoint the most Holy
This is referring to Christ - by virtue of His baptism - and possibly, by virtue of His resurrection.
Grammatically speaking, the phrase 'seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks' in verse 25 cannot be "dismantled" so that - in the next verse - 62 weeks can be added to the seven weeks at the beginning of this phrase.
The words 'And after' in the phrase 'And after threescore and two weeks' in verse 26 refer back to the last part of verse 25 - 'the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.' -- the 'countdown' for the 62 weeks starts at the end of the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
The phrase 'And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week' does not indicate a "1-week covenant"; but, rather - that the confirmation of the covenant is for 1 week.
With regard to the last part of verse 26 - 'and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.' - please read this post.
I believe the phrase 'he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease' in verse 27 is referring to the occurance of - and the ramifications of - this:
Mark 15:
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
It is not talking about the Abomination of Desolation.
I believe the phrase 'and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate' in verse 27 is referring to the desolation of the temple.
I believe the phrase 'even until the consummation' in verse 27 is referring to "the finishing of all things" - which is, essentially, at the Second Coming of Christ. Based on this, I believe that this verse is telling us that there will be no 3rd temple before the return of Christ.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Verse 24 describes what is to be accomplished during the 70 weeks:
~ to finish the transgression
The finishing of the transgression was the crucifying of Christ.
~ and to make an end of sins
~ and to make reconciliation for iniquity
~ and to bring in everlasting righteousness
Fully accomplished by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
~ and to seal up the vision and prophecy
Complete fulfillment by the end of the 70 weeks.
~ and to anoint the most Holy
This is referring to Christ - by virtue of His baptism - and possibly, by virtue of His resurrection.
Grammatically speaking, the phrase 'seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks' in verse 25 cannot be "dismantled" so that - in the next verse - 62 weeks can be added to the seven weeks at the beginning of this phrase.
The words 'And after' in the phrase 'And after threescore and two weeks' in verse 26 refer back to the last part of verse 25 - 'the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.' -- the 'countdown' for the 62 weeks starts at the end of the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
The phrase 'And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week' does not indicate a "1-week covenant"; but, rather - that the confirmation of the covenant is for 1 week.
With regard to the last part of verse 26 - 'and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.' - please read this post.
I believe the phrase 'he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease' in verse 27 is referring to the occurance of - and the ramifications of - this:
Mark 15:
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
It is not talking about the Abomination of Desolation.
I believe the phrase 'and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate' in verse 27 is referring to the desolation of the temple.
I believe the phrase 'even until the consummation' in verse 27 is referring to "the finishing of all things" - which is, essentially, at the Second Coming of Christ. Based on this, I believe that this verse is telling us that there will be no 3rd temple before the return of Christ.
man of sin
the son of perdition
sitteth in the temple of God
shewing himself that he is God
nope: no the antichrist
but this passage shows that 2 Thessalonians was written while the temple was still standing.
...
in futurism we have to make this temple be either the Christian church ( we see this with ppl who refuse accept the obvious reference to 1st Century Jerusalem as the Mother of Harlots; figuratively Sodom & Egypt - where the Lord was crucified...outside the gate is the (ir)rational) excuse for ignoring the obvious.....or, a future temple in which some future Antichrist sits.
there's no future temple predicted, nor needed...it in itself since Christ has come would be an abomination.
i am now convinced of a dating of the completion of the revelation of God to man (which we now consider canon) prior to 70AD...so we'll never agree, Chosen.
you have to eisegete all your ideas into the text and history.
the falling away; apostasy is also translated rebellion (same thing - lawlessness and rebellion = apostasy - they had to have been part of or near to the commonw. which fits the events of the apostate jews during the life of Christ; through the persecution of the Christians (early church); to the roman-jewish wars; and the destruction of the city in 70AD.
two parallel passages - both referring to 1st century events, addressed specifically to disciples living when Jesus spoke the words. those who understood, fled. they were the believers. the apostates and rebels who refused the warnings (MULTIPLE - see Heb 2, 6, 10, 12 etc) fought and died in the city. the others were carried away captive.
"Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains"
making this a future event still confines it precisely to the region of Judea and Palestine - the very place it actually happened.
the futurist is forced to make this another, and identical, day of wrath on Jerusalem, the very same events that happened in 70AD. this is why you have to have jews killed in the millions while you go in the fake rapture. nonsense.
nope: STILL no the antichrist
nope: STILL no the antichrist
but rather - fulfilled.
its very serious for you to bypass the events of Christ's life; the confirming of the covenant - which also came with warning of judgment (see: Deuteronomy 18, 28; Leviticus 26; Malachi 4; Psalm 2; Acts 3, 7; Matthew 12; Luke 21; Hebrew 2, 6, 10, 12)
Jeremiah 23:5
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
are you saying Jeremiah 23:5 is not fulfilled?
so i'll ask again: please produce The Antichrist from scripture or consider using another term.
if you mean the son of perdition or the man of sin or lawlessness..why not use those Biblical names?
....
if you want "futurism", here is Moses foretelling the events (the curses) that would befall the breakers of the Covenant, those who REFUSED to listen to voice, and hear and do the words of the Prophet like unto Moses Whom the LORD raised up - JESUS: refused to enter the New Covenant:
paragraph breaks added for easier reading...notice the cannibalism (the eating of the children that took place in 70AD. Jesus Himself said woe to those who are with child and nursing in those days - why? they were cut open and their unborn were eaten...and they ate their own children)...Josephus confirms.
notice also the smiting with blindness:
Deuteronomy 28:15–68
15 But it shall come to pass, uif thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and wovertake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be xin the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
20 The Lord yshall send upon thee cursing, zvexation, and arebuke, in all bthat thou settest thine hand unto * for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21 The Lord shall make cthe pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The Lord shall smite thee with da consumption, and with da fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the * sword, and with eblasting, and with emildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And fthy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
24 The Lord shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 25 gThe Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and hshalt be * removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And ithy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and jno man shall fray them away. 27 The Lord will smite thee with kthe botch of Egypt, and with lthe emerods, and with mthe scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The Lord shall smite thee with nmadness, and blindness, and oastonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt pgrope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.
30 qThou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: rthou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not * gather the grapes thereof. 31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and * shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them. 32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and sfail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be tno might in thine hand.
33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; uand thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: 34 So that thou shalt be mad vfor the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 35 The Lord shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore wbotch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. 36 The Lord shall xbring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and ythere shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. 37 And thou shalt become zan astonishment, aa proverb, and za byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee. 38 bThou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for cthe locust shall consume it. 39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit.
41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but * thou shalt not enjoy them; for dthey shall go into captivity. 42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust * consume. 43 eThe stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. 44 fHe shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: ehe shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail. 45 Moreover gall these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: 46 And they shall be upon thee hfor a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.
47 Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with igladness of heart, kfor the abundance of all things; 48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the Lord shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he lshall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
49 mThe Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, nas swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; 50 A nation of fierce countenance, owhich shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young: 51 And he shall peat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
52 And he shall qbesiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.
53 And rthou shalt eat the fruit of thine own * body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, sin the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: 54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, this eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward uthe wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave: 55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
the son of perdition
sitteth in the temple of God
shewing himself that he is God
nope: no the antichrist
but this passage shows that 2 Thessalonians was written while the temple was still standing.
...
in futurism we have to make this temple be either the Christian church ( we see this with ppl who refuse accept the obvious reference to 1st Century Jerusalem as the Mother of Harlots; figuratively Sodom & Egypt - where the Lord was crucified...outside the gate is the (ir)rational) excuse for ignoring the obvious.....or, a future temple in which some future Antichrist sits.
there's no future temple predicted, nor needed...it in itself since Christ has come would be an abomination.
i am now convinced of a dating of the completion of the revelation of God to man (which we now consider canon) prior to 70AD...so we'll never agree, Chosen.
you have to eisegete all your ideas into the text and history.
the falling away; apostasy is also translated rebellion (same thing - lawlessness and rebellion = apostasy - they had to have been part of or near to the commonw. which fits the events of the apostate jews during the life of Christ; through the persecution of the Christians (early church); to the roman-jewish wars; and the destruction of the city in 70AD.
Mark 13:14-19 KJV
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: [15] And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein , to take any thing out of his house: [16] And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. [17] But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [18] And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. [19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand [16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: [15] And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein , to take any thing out of his house: [16] And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. [17] But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [18] And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. [19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
"Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains"
making this a future event still confines it precisely to the region of Judea and Palestine - the very place it actually happened.
the futurist is forced to make this another, and identical, day of wrath on Jerusalem, the very same events that happened in 70AD. this is why you have to have jews killed in the millions while you go in the fake rapture. nonsense.
nope: STILL no the antichrist
nope: STILL no the antichrist
but rather - fulfilled.
its very serious for you to bypass the events of Christ's life; the confirming of the covenant - which also came with warning of judgment (see: Deuteronomy 18, 28; Leviticus 26; Malachi 4; Psalm 2; Acts 3, 7; Matthew 12; Luke 21; Hebrew 2, 6, 10, 12)
Jeremiah 23:5
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
are you saying Jeremiah 23:5 is not fulfilled?
so i'll ask again: please produce The Antichrist from scripture or consider using another term.
if you mean the son of perdition or the man of sin or lawlessness..why not use those Biblical names?
....
if you want "futurism", here is Moses foretelling the events (the curses) that would befall the breakers of the Covenant, those who REFUSED to listen to voice, and hear and do the words of the Prophet like unto Moses Whom the LORD raised up - JESUS: refused to enter the New Covenant:
paragraph breaks added for easier reading...notice the cannibalism (the eating of the children that took place in 70AD. Jesus Himself said woe to those who are with child and nursing in those days - why? they were cut open and their unborn were eaten...and they ate their own children)...Josephus confirms.
notice also the smiting with blindness:
Deuteronomy 28:15–68
15 But it shall come to pass, uif thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and wovertake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be xin the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
20 The Lord yshall send upon thee cursing, zvexation, and arebuke, in all bthat thou settest thine hand unto * for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21 The Lord shall make cthe pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The Lord shall smite thee with da consumption, and with da fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the * sword, and with eblasting, and with emildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And fthy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
24 The Lord shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 25 gThe Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and hshalt be * removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And ithy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and jno man shall fray them away. 27 The Lord will smite thee with kthe botch of Egypt, and with lthe emerods, and with mthe scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The Lord shall smite thee with nmadness, and blindness, and oastonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt pgrope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.
30 qThou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: rthou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not * gather the grapes thereof. 31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and * shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them. 32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and sfail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be tno might in thine hand.
33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; uand thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: 34 So that thou shalt be mad vfor the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 35 The Lord shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore wbotch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. 36 The Lord shall xbring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and ythere shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. 37 And thou shalt become zan astonishment, aa proverb, and za byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee. 38 bThou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for cthe locust shall consume it. 39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit.
41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but * thou shalt not enjoy them; for dthey shall go into captivity. 42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust * consume. 43 eThe stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. 44 fHe shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: ehe shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail. 45 Moreover gall these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: 46 And they shall be upon thee hfor a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.
47 Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with igladness of heart, kfor the abundance of all things; 48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the Lord shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he lshall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
49 mThe Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, nas swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; 50 A nation of fierce countenance, owhich shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young: 51 And he shall peat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
52 And he shall qbesiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.
53 And rthou shalt eat the fruit of thine own * body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, sin the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: 54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, this eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward uthe wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave: 55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
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since when do winds have horns?
the little horn was Antiochus Epiphanes
the little horn in daniel 8 is about the greek empire.
...
iii. This passage has been a favorite springboard for elaborate and fanciful prophetic interpretations. A popular and tragic interpretation of this passage took one year for every day, and William Miller used 2,300 "year-days" to calculate that Jesus would return in 1844 (2,300 years after Cyrus issued the decree to rebuild the temple). His movement ended up giving birth to the Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and several other movements.
iv. We can know that Miller and other "year-day" theories are wrong because this passage was fulfilled before the time of Jesus. Jesus recognized that the temple was properly cleansed and rededicated when He attended the Feast of Lights, commemorating the cleansing and rededication of the temple after the desecration brought by Antiochus Epiphanes (John 10:22).
v. Adam Clarke comments show what a hold the year-date approach had to many of his time: "Though literally it be two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, yet I think the prophetic day should be understood here, as in other parts of this prophet, and must signify so many years. If we date these years from the vision of the he-goat, (Alexander's invading Asia), this was A.M. 3670, B.C. 334; and two thousand three hundred years from that time will reach to A.D. 1966, or one hundred and forty-one years from the present A.D. 1825." There is no foundation for Clarke's approach, and it has led many off into serious error.
....
from: enduringword.
not linking to it, because though it rightly identifies Antiochus Epiphanes, it ends up managing to zig-zag through the events of chapter 9, which include (recapitulation) Antiochus Epiphanes, but carries on through to the restoration of israel (Herod's temple, etc); the coming of Messiah; (Herod as the king of Daniel 11)....and Titus in 70AD.
the little horn was Antiochus Epiphanes
the little horn in daniel 8 is about the greek empire.
...
iii. This passage has been a favorite springboard for elaborate and fanciful prophetic interpretations. A popular and tragic interpretation of this passage took one year for every day, and William Miller used 2,300 "year-days" to calculate that Jesus would return in 1844 (2,300 years after Cyrus issued the decree to rebuild the temple). His movement ended up giving birth to the Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and several other movements.
iv. We can know that Miller and other "year-day" theories are wrong because this passage was fulfilled before the time of Jesus. Jesus recognized that the temple was properly cleansed and rededicated when He attended the Feast of Lights, commemorating the cleansing and rededication of the temple after the desecration brought by Antiochus Epiphanes (John 10:22).
v. Adam Clarke comments show what a hold the year-date approach had to many of his time: "Though literally it be two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, yet I think the prophetic day should be understood here, as in other parts of this prophet, and must signify so many years. If we date these years from the vision of the he-goat, (Alexander's invading Asia), this was A.M. 3670, B.C. 334; and two thousand three hundred years from that time will reach to A.D. 1966, or one hundred and forty-one years from the present A.D. 1825." There is no foundation for Clarke's approach, and it has led many off into serious error.
....
from: enduringword.
not linking to it, because though it rightly identifies Antiochus Epiphanes, it ends up managing to zig-zag through the events of chapter 9, which include (recapitulation) Antiochus Epiphanes, but carries on through to the restoration of israel (Herod's temple, etc); the coming of Messiah; (Herod as the king of Daniel 11)....and Titus in 70AD.
Wrong Zone. It is the antichrist. You see, the antichrist has more than one title in the Scriptures. Here are some of the other titles that are designated to the antichrist in the holy Scriptures:
"man of sin" (2 Thess. 2:3).
"son of perdition" (John 17:12, & 2 Thess. 2:3).
"that Wicked" (2 Thess. 2:8).
"the beast" (Rev. 11:7, 13:2, 3, 4, 14, 15, 17, 18, 14:9, 11, 15:2, 16:2, 10, 13, 17:7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 19:19, 20, 20:4, 20.
Well I am sure it was. But this Scripture is pointed at the time of Jacob's trouble.
It is pointed to the Day of the Lord, which is the time of Jacob's trouble preceding the Lord Jesus Christ's Second Advent.
Zone, 2 Thessalonians is pointed at the time of Jacob's trouble, which is a future event. There is no getting around that.
And no 1st Century Jerusalem is not the Mother of Harlots.
The Mother of Harlots is the wicked, filthy, hellish, and vile, Papacy, Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican.
Zone, the temple will be rebuilded at the beginning of the time of Jacob's trouble (Daniel's 70th week), when the antichrist confirms the covenant with Israel as prophesied in Daniel 9:27.
And that's fine Zone, but all accounts, and those concerning Doctrine will be settled at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Again, the prophecy given in 2 Thess. 2:8 where the antichrist (that Wicked) will be revealed as he stands in the temple of God during the middle of Daniel's 70th week, is a future event. It did not take place in 70A.D.
Were there Jews that were apostate during the life and ministry of Christ? Sure there were. Were early Christians persecuted? Yes they were. Was the temple destroyed and were the Jews taken captive in 70 A.D.? Yes they were. Jesus had prophesied that the temple would be destroyed in Matthew 24:1-2:
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And around the timeframe of 70 A.D., Herod's Temple was completely destroyed. So I am aware of the destruction of the temple which took place in the very first century.
But again Zone, the question is, are the Scriptures in 2 Thess. 2 referring to the first century??
No they are not. They are referring to the time of Jacob's trouble which has not happened yet. Again, let's read 2 Thessalonians in Context:
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. - 2 Thessalonians 2:1-17 (KJV)
Always remember Zone, that a text without a context is a pre-text.
The passage in 2 Thessalonians 2 uis clearly referring to the time of Jacob's trouble and also the events during the time of Jacob's trouble which will eventualy lead up to the Second Coming of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The "Day of the Lord" did not take place in 70A.D. The Day of the Lord will happen in Daniel's Seventieth Week and also the Second Coming and Advent of our Lord Jesus Christ when He shall come back to the Earth with His saints and set up His Millennial Kingdom after Judging the Nations.
Could the two passages have some application to the 1st century?? Possibly. But it is clear that by reading the Scriptures in the context that they appear, that this is a future prophesy in the time of Jacob's trouble.
Wrong again Zone. The rapture is not fake.
The Pre-trib. Rapture is Bible Doctrine. And the catching away of the Body of Christ (the Rapture) will take place so that the Body of Christ is removed off the earth before the time of Jacob's trouble begins. The Church Age ends at the Rapture.
And the antichrist will be revealed sitting in the temple showing himself to be God, just as the Authorized King James Holy Bible prophecies in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.
I am not bypassing the events of the life of Christ. But what you still do not understand Zone is that the Scriptures concerning the time of Jacob's trouble are for Daniel's 70th week which will take place after the Rapture of the church.
The time of Jacob's trouble is a future event. You have to compare Scripture with Scripture and let the Scriptures define and interpret eachother.
I'll answer your question Zone with a question:
Is Jesus Christ physically ruling and reigning from Jersulaem on the throne of David right now as we speak??
so i'll ask again: please produce The Antichrist from scripture or consider using another term.
if you mean the son of perdition or the man of sin or lawlessness..why not use those Biblical names?
if you mean the son of perdition or the man of sin or lawlessness..why not use those Biblical names?
I already did Zone. I showed you that by comparing the Scriptures with other Scriptures, that the antichrist is identified.
Here is the thing Zone. antichrist is a Biblical term. Here is proof: antichrist appears four times in the Holy Bible (King James Authorized Version). Here is just one of the Scriptures where the term antichrist appears:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. - 1 John 2:18 (KJV)
Therefore Zone, you can see that "antichrist" and "antichrists" are both Biblical names and terms for the son of perdition.
I believe those punishments came upon Israel all down through History as they hardened their necks and disobeyed the Lord, and when they went after other gods to bow down and to worship them. We can see that all through the Old Testament, with the different kings which had reigned over Israel and how most of those kings which Israel had were corrupt. And how Israel provoked the LORD time and time again to jealousy with their worshipping of other gods. I also believe that some of those curses and judgments may even be happening today upon a lot of the unbeliving Jews. Knowing that there are a lot of Jews out there who have gone over to Jewish mysticism and New Age (i.e., the Kabbala, Talmud, Zohar, etc.).
But it is also important to understand that God is not done with Israel. God will be dealing with the Nation of Israel again, in the time of Jacob's trouble (Daniel's 70th week).
30 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith theLord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. - Jeremiah 30:1-11 (KJV)
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. - Romans 11:1-29 (KJV)