what is the gospel?

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K

KennethC

Guest
I've never exalted Paul above Jesus.
Jesus is the eternal God and Savior of all mankind.
My point is that Paul most thoroughly explained the Gospel in the first four chapters of Romans.
In Romans, Paul explains we are not saved by following teachings for ALL HAVE SINNED, rather we are saved by Christ death and resurrection. Even as Jesus many times hints at...

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
(Joh 11:25-26)
Apostle Paul taught just as the Lord Jesus taught that a true faith in the Lord will be an active faith with the fruits of the Spirit active in our lives. Showing that those who do all three; Come to the Lord, hear what He said, and then goes and does it are the ones who's foundation of faith is truly in the Lord.

But Jesus and James show a hearer only is deceived, and Peter shows in 2 Peter 1:9 that those who lack those fruits are shortsighted and blind but those who have them added to their faith have an entrance to the everlasting kingdom supplied to them.
 
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i thought he was suggesting we should aspire to uphold the teachings, do our best knowing we may fail but can ask for forgiveness, and salvation is through the Lords grace.

Correct! The modern definition of sinner does not match what Jesus taught. It is also clear in the 1John passage I posted. A sinner is in opposition to God. I as a Son of God [the righteous] am not in opposition, but desire to see His will be done in me. When I fall short it is not because I am a sinner seeking to sin, but because I have human weakness.
(Luke 5:32 [UKJV])
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Sinners by Jesus definition are people who are not committed to God, but can be reached and called to turn back toward God. If we believe what Jesus is saying without manipulating it, we understand that there are righteous and sinners. Its that clear. If we have to manipulate Jesus' words then we don't believe what He said and we call Him a liar. So His words are clear, there are righteous and sinners. Where else is this found? John the Baptist parents.
(Luke 1:6 [UKJV])
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Where else? In the Prodigal Son story. The son who never left his fathers house. He had no need of deliverance from evil because he was living in safety. These are all things Jesus taught.
(Luke 11:4 [WMTH])
and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves also forgive every one who fails in his duty to us; ....
The act of seeking cleansing [the meaning in the Greek] is a constant action we must seek. When we seek cleansing God washes our mind and heart of corruption. Corruption [sin] distorts our relationship with God and disconnects us from the Fullness and Richness of Life [eternal life] which flows from Him.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Apostle Paul taught just as the Lord Jesus taught that a true faith in the Lord will be an active faith with the fruits of the Spirit active in our lives. Showing that those who do all three; Come to the Lord, hear what He said, and then goes and does it are the ones who's foundation of faith is truly in the Lord.

But Jesus and James show a hearer only is deceived, and Peter shows in 2 Peter 1:9 that those who lack those fruits are shortsighted and blind but those who have them added to their faith have an entrance to the everlasting kingdom supplied to them.
Again, the topic is not fruit of the Spirit, or receiving the Spirit or having God's nature written on our hearts (born again) etc., but it is what is the Gospel? To go into the other areas we run the risk of mixing justification with sanctification and being NOT a Roman Catholic I won't go there.

Again the Gospel in it's most concise form with color codings :)

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(1Co 15:1-4)
 

crossnote

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Russell. 2nd call...

On what basis are you saved?
Your Righteousness or His Righteousness?
Your Obedience or His Obedience?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
Again, the topic is not fruit of the Spirit, or receiving the Spirit or having God's nature written on our hearts (born again) etc., but it is what is the Gospel? To go into the other areas we run the risk of mixing justification with sanctification and being NOT a Roman Catholic I won't go there.

Again the Gospel in it's most concise form with color codings :)

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(1Co 15:1-4)

I am not Roman Catholic either so I don't know what they has to do with anything.

But again we are saved by the gospel, and the main part of the gospel is "believing" in Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Which we have to take into account Luke 6:46-49 where Jesus shows us a true faith form a false faith, and the difference He shows there is those who do and those who don't do. Jesus also shows this same standing in the parables of Matthew 25 !!!

What Paul is stating there in 1 Corinthians 15 is part of that believing in Him, but that is not all that Paul instructed on as he also showed that only those who continue in the faith (continue believing in the Lord) will receive eternal life.
 
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Yup as I said before, I am in desperate need of grace 24/7. Seeing you have no need of grace you are confessing you live by the law.

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

OK! Let's make this a little more clear for you. I have Favor [grace], its mine, and a Free Gift to me, that's why I am a Son of God and Righteous. You on the other hand are denying it and trying to manipulate it for what ever bizarre reasoning. Sadly! You are blinded by doctrines which deny the Authority of Christ.
(1John 3:6-10 [UKJV])
... whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him..... He that commits sin is of the devil;... In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, ...
If you can't understand this then you need some form of deliverance and we need not converse any more.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I am not Roman Catholic either so I don't know what they has to do with anything.

But again we are saved by the gospel, and the main part of the gospel is "believing" in Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Which we have to take into account Luke 6:46-49 where Jesus shows us a true faith form a false faith, and the difference He shows there is those who do and those who don't do. Jesus also shows this same standing in the parables of Matthew 25 !!!

What Paul is stating there in 1 Corinthians 15 is part of that believing in Him, but that is not all that Paul instructed on as he also showed that only those who continue in the faith (continue believing in the Lord) will receive eternal life.
You have a Roman view of justification/sanctification whether you know it or not. They mix the two just as you do.

Luke 6:46-49 is talking about true fruit/abiding fruit. Mt 25 speaks of the 10 virgins amongst other things. The 5 foolish versions did not have any oil...no Holy Spirit, not born again.

1 Cor 15 :1-4 says "by which you are saved". Paul goes on to say in Ephesians "we have been seated in heavenly places" and "we have been sealed by the Spirit" and "we have been justified"; all past perfect tenses.

But go ahead, I'm done arguing the point. Mix your works with His works in order to be saved if that's what you want, I choose to rejoice in His completed salvation and work in my stead.
 
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crossnote

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OK! Let's make this a little more clear for you. I have Favor [grace], its mine, and a Free Gift to me, that's why I am a Son of God and Righteous. You on the other hand are denying it and trying to manipulate it for what ever bizarre reasoning. Sadly! You are blinded by doctrines which deny the Authority of Christ.
(1John 3:6-10 [UKJV])
... whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him..... He that commits sin is of the devil;... In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, ...
If you can't understand this then you need some form of deliverance and we need not converse any more.
For the 3rd time please answer...

On what basis are you saved?
Your Righteousness or His Righteousness?
Your Obedience or His Obedience?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
You have a Roman view of justification/sanctification whether you know it or not. Luke 6:46-49 is talking about true fruit/abiding fruit. Mt 25 speaks of the 10 virgins amongst other things. The 5 foolish versions did not have any oil...no Holy Spirit not born again.
1 Cor 15 :1-4 says "by which you are saved". Paul goes on to say in Ephesians "we have been seated in heavenly places" and "we have been sealed by the Spirit" and "we have been justified"; all past perfect tenses.
But go ahead, I'm done arguing the point. Mix your works with His works in order to be saved if that's what you want, I choose to rejoice in His completed salvation and work in my stead.

I have a biblical view of the salvation process that does not water it down to take away the doing/active part of a true belief in the Lord.

Jesus starts off Luke there asking us a question;

" And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? "


Then He goes into showing those who have a true foundation of faith built on Him..........Verses 47-48

Then He shows a false profession of faith in Him and those here who hear only but don't do will be headed to ruin....Verse 49


Matthew 25 shows those who do not prepare, squander what they were given, and did not do according to His will where cast away and told He never knew them. They were called unfaithful servants and Jesus shows this same teaching of disobedience in Luke 12. Disobedience to His teachings is shown in the bible multiple times does not lead to salvation.
 
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For the 3rd time please answer...

On what basis are you saved?
Your Righteousness or His Righteousness?
Your Obedience or His Obedience?
You want to judge me according to corrupt systematic theology definitions. Your notions of "Saved, Righteousness, and Obedience" cannot be applied to me, because they are the vain imaginations of men.
(2Pet 2:5 [20cNT]).... he preserved Noah, the Preacher of Righteousness, .....
How could he be a preacher of righteousness without being righteous. What made him righteous?

(Heb 11:7 [Mace])
'Twas by faith that Noah being divinely warned of unforeseen events, with a religious concern built an ark to the preservation of his family; whereby the world became inexcusable, and
he obtained the reward of that righteousness which is by faith.It was by Faith in and toward God and the same goes for Abraham, which is the same faith till today.
(Hab 2:4 [BBE])
As for the man of pride, my soul has no pleasure in him; but
the upright man will have life through his good faith.
I believe James sums it up the best.
(Jas 2:21-24 [20cNT])
...Abraham.
Was not it the result of his actions that he was pronounced righteous after he had offered his son, Isaac, on the altar? You see how, in his case, faith and actions went together; that his faith was perfected as the result of his actions; and that in this way the words of Scripture came true — ​“Abraham believed God, and that was regarded by God as righteousness,” and “He was called the friend of God.” You see, then, that it is as the result of his actions that a man is pronounced righteous, and not of his faith only.




.
 
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For the 3rd time please answer...

On what basis are you saved?
Your Righteousness or His Righteousness?
Your Obedience or His Obedience?
Saved means "To be delivered from evil", what ever that evil is. The Kingdom of God lead by the Deliver [Christ] is the one who Saves us from evil.
(Col 1:13 [20cNT])
For God has rescued
[saved] us from the tyranny of Darkness [evil] , and has removed us into the Kingdom of his Son, who is the embodiment of his love,

Righteousness means "right standing" and is a combination of how we act and what causes us to act. We must act with right intentions and we must allow Christ to act within us with His intentions.
Obedience comes from a desire of the heart. I must have a desire and I must let Christ have His desire to will and work within me.
You see its not one way or the other. The verse in James I provided explained it perfectly. It is both us and God in concert working together.
 
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[UKJV])
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has
anointed me to preach the gospelto the poor; ......
Isn't that interesting! "To the poor". What is the difference between preaching the Gospel to Donald Trump and the poor? What is this "Gospel to the poor"? It has to do with "Being Saved", but not the modern definition held by the church.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Russell. 2nd call...

On what basis are you saved?
Your Righteousness or His Righteousness?
Your Obedience or His Obedience?
You make it sound like obeying Jesus is a bad thing or not a requirement.

For "obey" is not a dirty word.

It is merely the fruit of the One living in you. For...

Jesus Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9).

There are those who deny Him in works (Titus 1:16).

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

Jesus said, why do you call me LORD, LORD, and do not what I say? (Luke 6:46).

Paul says... any man who teaches contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James says... do not deceive yourselves, and be ye doers of the Word and not hears only (James 1:22).

The author of Hebrews said....without holiness, no man shall see the LORD (Hebrews 12:14).

Jesus said, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).

Were the disciples who stopped following (obeying) Jesus saved? (John 6:66).

We can have an assurance that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (1 John 2:3).

For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4).

Anyone who sins is of the devil (1 John 3:8).

Anyone who does righteousness is born of God (1 John 3:10).

Jesus said if you love me, you will keep his commandments (John 14:15).

If we reject the words of Jesus Christ, then those very words will judge us on the last day (John 12:48).
 
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For whose lord are you following or obeying if you are not following or obeying Jesus?

Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.

Choose this day in whom ye will serve.
 
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Hebrews 11 describes the word "faith" as both a belief and as an action.

Believing in Jesus implies believing in everything that He taught and He said. If not, you are believing in another Jesus.

Jesus said one's foundation is on solid rock if you do what He says. "Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock:" . (Matthew 7:21, 24).

Jesus said to Peter that he had little faith and doubted when he did not fully trust in Jesus so as to walk on the water (Matthew 14:22-33). So here we see belief or faith tied with an action. Our faith is how we gain access to God's free gift of saving grace (Ephesians 2:8-9).

For we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10).

For we are not our own, we are bought and paid for with a price (1 Corinthians 6:20).
 
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For lets look at Matthew 7 again (above).

Why did Jesus say to the false or wrong believer to depart from his presence?

It says because they worked iniquity (or sin) (Matthew 7:23).

This is important to understand because at the end of the harvest all who do sin and iniquity will be removed from Christ's Kingdom when the Son of man sends forth his angels to remove those who do sin and iniquity (See Matthew 13:41).

What is sin?

Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).

This is why Jesus said if you are his friends or if you love Him, you will keep His commandments.

For all those who are not Jesus's friends or those who do not love Jesus, do not keep his commandments.

They say they choose sin over Jesus.

But all those who work iniquity will be removed in Christ's Kingdom in the end.

For be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever man sows, that shall he also reap.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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For lets look at Matthew 7 again (above).

Why did Jesus say to the false or wrong believer to depart from his presence?

It says because they worked iniquity (or sin) (Matthew 7:23).

This is important to understand because at the end of the harvest all who do sin and iniquity will be removed from Christ's Kingdom when the Son of man sends forth his angels to remove those who do sin and iniquity (See Matthew 13:41).

What is sin?

Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).

This is why Jesus said if you are his friends or if you love Him, you will keep His commandments.

For all those who are not Jesus's friends or those who do not love Jesus, do not keep his commandments.

They say they choose sin over Jesus.

But all those who work iniquity will be removed in Christ's Kingdom in the end.

For be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever man sows, that shall he also reap.
Edit Correction:

Did not mean to have the word "say" in there. Merely meant to say that those who do not obey His Commands or Laws are choosing sin over Jesus.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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The bottom line is I teach what the Savior teaches and many don't.
I have so much Love for the Christ that I hold to every word He said.

(Matt 24:35 [UKJV])
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(John 1:17 [UKJV])
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(John 4:23 [UKJV])
But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

What do you have if you reject His Words? In case you haven't noticed, let me point it out. You are arguing against what Jesus taught, because everything I presented was His teachings. There not mine. Jesus told the young man to follow the 10C, not me. You have a problem with Jesus and what He taught.
(Luke 18:18 [UKJV])
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
(Luke 18:20 [UKJV])
You know the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour your father and your mother.

If Jesus is wrong for pointing the young man to the 10C say so, but don't take it out on me for saying what He said.
I am not arguing against what Jesus taught and Jesus did not teach salvation by works. You obviously have missed the point that Jesus was making. Before showing him the way to life, Jesus wanted to impress on the young man both the high standard required by God and the absolute futility of seeking salvation by his own merit. This should have elicited a response about the impossibility of keeping the law perfectly, but instead the young man confidently (and self righteously) declared that he qualified for heaven under those terms (vs. 20). This young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could never part with his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. How many commandments did he break right there? By His words to the rich young ruler, Christ did not mean to say that man is saved by works, for the Bible teaches plainly that such will not be the case (Romans 3:20-28, 4:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Rather, he was using the man’s wealth which had corrupted his heart, as an example to the disciples and us.

What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?

So what do you believe will be the basis by which you will receive eternal life? Faith in Christ, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) or through sinless perfect obedience to the 10C? If you were to die right now and the Lord Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into Heaven, what would be your exact answer? Your answer will demonstrate what you are trusting in for salvation. Have you placed your faith EXCLUSIVELY in Jesus Christ for salvation OR are you trusting in WORKS?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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You want to judge me according to corrupt systematic theology definitions. Your notions of "Saved, Righteousness, and Obedience" cannot be applied to me, because they are the vain imaginations of men.
(2Pet 2:5 [20cNT]).... he preserved Noah, the Preacher of Righteousness, .....
How could he be a preacher of righteousness without being righteous. What made him righteous?


(Heb 11:7 [Mace])
'Twas by faith that Noah being divinely warned of unforeseen events, with a religious concern built an ark to the preservation of his family; whereby the world became inexcusable, and
he obtained the reward of that righteousness which is by faith. It was by Faith in and toward God and the same goes for Abraham, which is the same faith till today.
The same thing that accounts ALL of us as righteous is FAITH. Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it.

(Hab 2:4 [BBE])
As for the man of pride, my soul has no pleasure in him; but
the upright man will have life through his good faith.
I believe James sums it up the best.
(Jas 2:21-24 [20cNT])
...Abraham.
Was not it the result of his actions that he was pronounced righteous after he had offered his son, Isaac, on the altar? You see how, in his case, faith and actions went together; that his faith was perfected as the result of his actions; and that in this way the words of Scripture came true — ​“Abraham believed God, and that was regarded by God as righteousness,” and “He was called the friend of God.” You see, then, that it is as the result of his actions that a man is pronounced righteous, and not of his faith only.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."

Faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean he was finally saved many years later based on his works. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith (Genesis 15:6) long before he offered up Isaac on the alter and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22. In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Matthew 12:37 - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words reveal the state of our hearts. Words will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness.

In Luke 7:29, God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist. This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

James chapter 2 is a major stumbling block for "works salvationists" including Roman Catholics and Mormons. From your posts, it appears that you teach salvation by works and sinless perfection. :(
 
E

Eva1218

Guest
Gospel is yes Good News. The Teachings of JESUS CHRIST. HIS Life here on Earth. Who HE is. What HE has done. HIS Relationship to the world. When we study/read the Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, we learn Who JESUS is. The intimacy of HIS Heart toward HIS Craftsmanship being us mankind, Created in HIS Image. We learn why HE chose to come in fleshly form. HIS Kingdom etc.. The Good Message and Meat that is served so well that it causes the reader to self-examine and come to the realization that we all need THEE SAVIOR. We all must use HIM as our pinnacle of living this life as we know. The Gospel is Life. Food for the soul. It brings out the very best in us all when we adhere to it. Softens even the mighty of mankind's heart.

The Gospel brings clarity to the mind and reaches the innermost of our being to capture the essence of not only this life on earth but the Beauty of which we look forward to seeing. The Gospel is GOD relating to us HIS Most Intimacy of LOVE by stepping out of Heaven to Earth. By way of Birth through HOLY SPIRIT experiencing all that we will go through on this Earth and much more. The Gospels walk us through time past, present and future. The Gospel demolishes all untruths the FOOT of GOD on satan's neck!!! The Gospel makes one search more into The WORD/Bible in search of more to feed the hunger and quench the thirst.

The Gospel, Good news, Good Message is the answers to our what, when, why and how regarding this life. Notice in the Gospels it will state the Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It is their recorded writings in which GOD had them to. It is not only their truth but their experience. The Gospel is the GODHEAD relating to HIS most prize creation.

Blessings!!!!!!!