What is the proper salary for a pastor?

[Ezekiel8]

Why should we look for answers in the Old Covenant? Paul was bi-vocational, a tent maker.

The issue we have in the USA is the idea that a church should be a mega church and have hundreds or even thousands in attendance. A church this size then needs a full time paid and salaried pastor and pastoral staff.

I think a small [50-100], med [100-200] should have a bi-vocational pastor and an avg sized church [200-400] should have a FT salaried pastor

Well I'm not saying what they should or shouldn't do, I'm just saying what I thought was the case. And looking around here at some of the salaries they do make is pretty eye opening.

As it pertains to the OT, I was just going by that for the point about tithes since you know the tithe is mostly covered in the OT and what it was used for and how it is properly to be distributed and used by the Levites, whom were the priest caste of that time.

 

[Willie-T]

What does wealthy Abraham have to do with pastor's salaries? Talk about Paul, who took no salary and worked harder than any preacher does today.

Paul traveled all over the place for 15 years, straight, and then went out and did it some more. Do you think that stuff came free? He obviously had a lot more money available to him than a mere stipend from some stingy church board, or a tentmaker's pay. Ship passage, alone, would have cost him an arm and a leg.

 

[Nehemiah6]

My wife and I are members of a Baptist Church. Our Pastor is fulltime with a salary of $250,000 a year plus a single family home.

Well looks like your Baptist Church needs to reexamine its priorities, unless the majority of members are millionaires or billionaires.

 

[Zi]

Varies by location.

Why are you comparing apples and oranges? How about comparing a pastor's (spiritual shepherd's) salary to what an actual shepherd makes out there looking after his actual sheep? The trouble is that Christians have allowed their pastors to become CEO's instead to insisting that they remain shepherds. And that is why we have the apostasy that we have in Christendom today.

 

[Depleted]

What's the thoughts on the following
1 Timothy 5:17-18
Honor the Elders
17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

My thought? Good verse. Fits perfectly. I just don't know what is "worthy" for a pastor. Does it change based on size of church? Does it change if the pastor is only responsible for sermons/teachings versus the pastor is also saddled with taking care of the needs of the people too? Are we heaping way too much work on a pastor if we expect him to do both? Where does the pastor's job finish and ours starts?

Hubby just told me he had just read that anyone with a church of over 50 people needs more than one pastor. A pastor cannot take care of that many very well.

And he didn't even know I was asking this question when he told me that. We were talking about mega-churches, because we were watching this huge Christmas pageant (huge choir, live nativity scene on the side, dancers in the front, camel walking across the stage), and I said, "That cannot be inside a church." lol

 

[maxwel]

Why are you comparing apples and oranges? How about comparing a pastor's (spiritual shepherd's) salary to what an actual shepherd makes out there looking after his actual sheep? The trouble is that Christians have allowed their pastors to become CEO's instead to insisting that they remain shepherds. And that is why we have the apostasy that we have in Christendom today.

Hey Nehemiah,

I wasn't trying to compare apples and oranges as some kind of "solution".
Sorry if it came off that way.
I was just trying to make a point that I obviously failed at making, lol
: )

My Point:
I was really just trying to point out that a lot of pastors, probably the average pastor, has a genuinely sacrificial attitude toward his calling, and is making far below WHAT THEY COULD BE MAKING OUT IN THE SECULAR WORLD.
* I think the average, decent pastor, has probably taken up his calling sacrificially, and we aren't paying him enough.

But I agree that some pastors make ridiculous amounts, and it doesn't seem right.
I agree.

I wasn't trying to debate the seriousness, or reality, of your concerns.
I apologize if it came off that way.

 

[trofimus]

Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

My thought? Good verse. Fits perfectly. I just don't know what is "worthy" for a pastor. Does it change based on size of church? Does it change if the pastor is only responsible for sermons/teachings versus the pastor is also saddled with taking care of the needs of the people too? Are we heaping way too much work on a pastor if we expect him to do both? Where does the pastor's job finish and ours starts?

Hubby just told me he had just read that anyone with a church of over 50 people needs more than one pastor. A pastor cannot take care of that many very well.

And he didn't even know I was asking this question when he told me that. We were talking about mega-churches, because we were watching this huge Christmas pageant (huge choir, live nativity scene on the side, dancers in the front, camel walking across the stage), and I said, "That cannot be inside a church." lol

Worthy of double honor, not worthy of double money.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

 

[Magenta]

Out of the 603,550 that left out of Eygpt, only two entered the promise land. Joshua and Caleb.

Wouldn't the women and children have been allowed in also?

Say to them, ‘As I live, declares the LORD, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you: your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against me, not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.' Numbers 14:28-30

Aren't only men of arms' bearing age are counted in the census?​

​

​

 

[Willie-T]

Worthy of double honor, not worthy of double money.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Are you not "loving money" if you have a problem with turning loose of it?

 

[Depleted]

The Bible does not address the specific amount of a pastor's salary.
Therefore, there is no specified amount.


The Bible does however talk about false teachers, and people who are greedy of gain.
So if you see a pastor who just seems to be false and greedy... you should not support him.


The problem is not the AMOUNT of a Pastor's salary,
the problem is that Christians can no longer tell a greedy conman from a real preacher.

The other problem is that Christians tend to judge every pastor by their own definition of "greedy." And, if they don't happen to like the pastor, suddenly it is assumed he is "false."

Somehow there is "worthy of his labor." And I really do think owning a jet is beyond what I'd think for "fair wages," but some pastors are well known enough to be asked to go to other churches, to conferences, and even to stadiums. (Billy Graham comes to mind for stadiums.) So I don't know when owning your own jet is responsible use of money. Atlanta's airport was shut down for five hours over a power outage. Winter is here, so other airports will shut down over snow. If a stadium of people are waiting for a guy, and he's stuck in an airport...? I'm thinking private jet is too much, but maybe because I'm still stuck thinking an Audi is my dream purchase. Hard for me to know how to judge, but I don't want to judge over personal-opinion.

I truly would like to figure out how to see this biblically.

 

[trofimus]

Wouldn't the women and children have been allowed in also?

[FONT=&]Say to them,[/FONT] ‘As I live, declares the LORD, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you: your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against me, not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.' [FONT=&]Numbers 14:28-30

Aren't only men of arms' bearing age are counted in the census?​

​

[/FONT]​

Just a note, there is no archeological evidence of such mass of people traveling through the desert for 40 years.

So who knows what is the right number.

 

[Magenta]

Just a note, there is no archeological evidence of such mass of people traveling through the desert for 40 years.

So who knows what is the right number.

Sand and wind are great destroyers. Do you not believe there was an exodus?

 

[trofimus]

Are you not "loving money" if you have a problem with turning loose of it?

I am not sure if I understand the sentence...

 

[trofimus]

Sand and wind are great destroyers. Do you not believe there was an exodus?

Destroyers of flesh, maybe.. but destroyers of various tools, jewelry, things, no. Actually, the opposite is true, its a good conservation (thats why we have such old papyri of the New Testament from "sandy" and dry areas.

Well, Israel had to come from somewhere. I am just not sure about 600 000 men + families. There would have to be something left along the road.

 

[BillG]

Paul traveled all over the place for 15 years, straight, and then went out and did it some more. Do you think that stuff came free? He obviously had a lot more money available to him than a mere stipend from some stingy church board, or a tentmaker's pay. Ship passage, alone, would have cost him an arm and a leg.

I could be wrong but I don't think Paul was payed a salary but he made it clear that leaders should be paid.
It is also apparent that he did receive for his work.

Philippians 4:15-18
15 Now you Philippians know also that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me concerning giving and receiving but you only. 16 For even in Thessalonica you sent aid once and again for my necessities. 17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that abounds to your account. 18 Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God.

 

[Willie-T]

I am not sure if I understand the sentence...

I'm sorry... I don't speak Czechoslovakian, so I have expressed it as plainly as I know how to in English.

 

[Magenta]

Destroyers of flesh, maybe.. but destroyers of various tools, jewelry, things, no. Actually, the opposite is true, its a good conservation (thats why we have such old papyri of the New Testament from "sandy" and dry areas.

Well, Israel had to come from somewhere. I am just not sure about 600 000 men + families. There would have to be something left along the road.

Erosion destroys even hard metals. There were roads in the desert?

 

[Depleted]

The New Testament does not know any paid pastors, so everything is just our opinion.

But Paul says (and which religious worker has a right to be paid more than the apostle Paul?) that if he had all his needs covered and something small above it, he will be satisfied.

So, I do not see any basis for really rich pastors. People see it and it damages the message.

The NT doesn't mention how, or if, the apostles were paid. It also doesn't mention many pastors at all. And the NT writers were usually Jewish, so they'd count the OT as part of the Bible.

Also, how much money is "really rich?" From my personal opinion, I consider Americans making "average salary" as rich, so is "really rich" like $70,000 a year? Judging from personal opinion wouldn't work with me at all. lol

 

[Magenta]

I am not sure if I understand the sentence...

I understood Willie to be saying that if you do not give freely it is because you are too attached to your money...

 

[Dan58]

"And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat." (Matthew 10: 7-10)

"What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel." (1 Corinthians 9:18)

"Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?" (2 Corinthians 11:7)

"Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." (1 Corinthians 10:33)

I'm obviously evangelistic and believe the provisions of a preacher should be met, but charging a congregation for the gospel seems contrary to what Christ and Paul taught.. When the Pastor is the richest man in the church, somethings wrong. "Go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." (Matthew 19:21).