What Is True Salvation In The Bible?
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Baptism of the holy spirit, the one you're referring to happened as noted in Acts2 on the day of Pentecost and the spirit fell on the apostles as promised to them by Jesus also fulfiling the Joel prophesy per Acts 2 and going back to Luke 24:49 and the words of Jesus to his apostles. That type of baptism was limited in duration and was for a particular purpose and does not occurr today. All persons baptized into Christ today receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as per Acts 2:38, not the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit.
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(Rev 3:14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
(Rev 3:15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
(Rev 3:16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
(Rev 3:17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
(Rev 3:18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(Rev 3:19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(Rev 3:20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(Rev 3:21) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
(Rev 3:22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
So this type of church is characterised as neither cold, nor hot.. lukewarm.. not that they never had faith to begin with.
God is also asking them to buy of Him gold tried in the fire.. to be spiritually rich. Then in the next verse God is saying those who He loves He rebukes and chastens.
So this is about overcoming for those who God already loves. vs 21 is about the overcoming.. overcoming lukewarm characteristics to be faithful to God.
And again vs 22.. they are a church. Show me scripture of people who join a church in the NT who are not already believers. Judas is the exception rather than the rule.
(Rev 3:15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
(Rev 3:16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
(Rev 3:17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
(Rev 3:18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(Rev 3:19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(Rev 3:20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(Rev 3:21) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
(Rev 3:22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
So this type of church is characterised as neither cold, nor hot.. lukewarm.. not that they never had faith to begin with.
God is also asking them to buy of Him gold tried in the fire.. to be spiritually rich. Then in the next verse God is saying those who He loves He rebukes and chastens.
So this is about overcoming for those who God already loves. vs 21 is about the overcoming.. overcoming lukewarm characteristics to be faithful to God.
And again vs 22.. they are a church. Show me scripture of people who join a church in the NT who are not already believers. Judas is the exception rather than the rule.
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The "works' referenced by Paul are the "works" of the Law. Walking in God's holiness and righteousness is not "works".
Galatians 5
[13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Galatians 5
[13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
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Christ already showed you the spiritual condition of the Laodiceans, but that made no dent in your thinking. Those were all unsaved "professors". So read Revelation 2 and 3 for more false Christians.
NICOLAITANS: But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
THOSE OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
THOSE WHO HOLD TO THE DOCTRINE OF BALAAM But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
FOLLOWERS OF JEZEBEL: Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
THOSE WHO HAVE DEFILED THEIR GARMENTS: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
NICOLAITANS: But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
THOSE OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
THOSE WHO HOLD TO THE DOCTRINE OF BALAAM But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
FOLLOWERS OF JEZEBEL: Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
THOSE WHO HAVE DEFILED THEIR GARMENTS: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Of course.. false christians.. but which of these are members of a NT church? The nicolaitans aren't talked of being a NT church. Those in the synagogue of satan-- nope.. not a NT local church in that. Those who hold to the doctrine of Balaam.. sure.. false christians.. but actually members of their church? Would need to look at that more closely.
Jezebel case-- someone outside their church bringing in destructive heresies.. most likely not of the church itself.
The case of Laodiceans.. the age of christians nowadays can be characterised with the same kind of status as the Loadiceans.
A believer can struggle with sin.. and be characterised with negative sinful status. Ideally, they would get over it.. or away from it through God's strength.. but not all do. Doesn't mean they were never saved to begin with.
The key thing here.. is who is being addressed. If it starts with addressing believers.. then that continues with the context as you would know.
Calling something a NT church.. it starts as an assembly of saved, and baptised believers. Once that distinction is made.. any kind of characteristic can be attributed to that church.. but not that they are unsaved.
Peace.
Jezebel case-- someone outside their church bringing in destructive heresies.. most likely not of the church itself.
The case of Laodiceans.. the age of christians nowadays can be characterised with the same kind of status as the Loadiceans.
A believer can struggle with sin.. and be characterised with negative sinful status. Ideally, they would get over it.. or away from it through God's strength.. but not all do. Doesn't mean they were never saved to begin with.
The key thing here.. is who is being addressed. If it starts with addressing believers.. then that continues with the context as you would know.
Calling something a NT church.. it starts as an assembly of saved, and baptised believers. Once that distinction is made.. any kind of characteristic can be attributed to that church.. but not that they are unsaved.
Peace.
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No. Jesus was NOT addressing believers exclusively. He was addressing LOCAL CHURCHES which had a mixture of sheep and goats, wheat and tares. And I have already pointed this out in post #49. For some strange reason, people do not wish to recognize that the church at Laodicea was devoid of any true believers. "Cold" would mean outright pagans. "Hot" would mean genuine Christians. "Lukewarm" meant false professors devoid of the Holy Spirit. No wonder Christ would spue them out of His mouth. Do we have such churches today? Certainly.
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You are taking away from the grace of God for the believer who has stumbled and stating they cannot be forgiven as you use Hebrews chapter 10 as the text to support that?
The context of Hebrews 10 is those who return to the Law for justification over the Supremacy of Christ. It is a legalistic interpretation. Knowing not that you condemn your own self? You do not obey every word of God. and those who scream the loudest about the worldly sin of what they see others do most likely battle sins they think God doesn't know about.
The context of Hebrews 10 is those who return to the Law for justification over the Supremacy of Christ. It is a legalistic interpretation. Knowing not that you condemn your own self? You do not obey every word of God. and those who scream the loudest about the worldly sin of what they see others do most likely battle sins they think God doesn't know about.
The "church" is the body of Christ, so yes, the letters are addressed to those who are the Lord's that make up the body at those local congregations. We have visitors periodically, maybe they did too, but it's clear who the letters were meant for: the body of Christ, his church.
Being hot, cold, lukewarm simply denotes the church's demeanor, how they act, their activities, their fervor or lack thereof for the Lord and the Lord's work to seek and save the lost. We're they Christians only when they met as the congregation putting up a facade, or were the Christians who carried themselves like Christians every day of the week. No different today.
Being hot, cold, lukewarm simply denotes the church's demeanor, how they act, their activities, their fervor or lack thereof for the Lord and the Lord's work to seek and save the lost. We're they Christians only when they met as the congregation putting up a facade, or were the Christians who carried themselves like Christians every day of the week. No different today.