What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

[Absolutely]

I wanna ask all of y'all who believe in the pre trib rapture: Do yall believe in TWO peoples of God or ONE? I believe in ONE and because of that im always in trouble with the dispies because i just usually dont buy the 'thats talking to Israel' idea. Not only that when I hear 'according to jewish custom' or 'in jewish culture' I ALREADY prepare myself for OKAY THATS IT, some FALSE DOCTRINE is coming down the pipeline.

I ask that because if there is a pre tribber here who believes in ONE people of God, which is ALL PEOPLE OF FAITH Jews and Gentiles from creation to uncreation, does that do any damage to the pre trib teaching that the church kinda gets out of the way for Daniel's 70th week and all that?

The gt is jacobs trouble or israels trouble.

If the jews are not players then much of pauls writings are invalid,because he places the Jews as cut off but later grafted back in.
Paul even states that if he cut them off and grafted us gentiles in, to walk uprightly lest we be cut off also.

Beyond that,the 144k are definately Jewish descendants .
No doubt about it God is dealing with 2 covenant people.
You are thinking of salvation.
God is dealing with a harlot that he loves and is after. He is after them,not jumbling the harlot in with the gentile bride.

Ruth is a book of "kinsman redeemer"
Two players. One gentile,one Jew.

Rev 5 reveals the kinsman redeemer as a man...Jesus.

 

[Hevosmies]

The gt is jacobs trouble or israels trouble.

If the jews are not players then much of pauls writings are invalid,because he places the Jews as cut off but later grafted back in.
Paul even states that if he cut them off and grafted us gentiles in, to walk uprightly lest we be cut off also.

Beyond that,the 144k are definately Jewish descendants .
No doubt about it God is dealing with 2 covenant people.
You are thinking of salvation.
God is dealing with a harlot that he loves and is after. He is after them,not jumbling the harlot in with the gentile bride.

Ruth is a book of "kinsman redeemer"
Two players. One gentile,one Jew.

Rev 5 reveals the kinsman redeemer as a man...Jesus.

I agree that jews will get converted during the latter times. Difference is: I see them as JOINING the church. That one group of people God has

 

[Absolutely]

I appreciate the funny name changing. But the parable in Matthew 25:1-13 hardly fits a post-trib scheme, because I really do not need to be watching for the Lord's return anytime soon if post-trib Rapture is true, I really do not. Call me when the abomination of desolation occurs, that is when I start watching, before that it is just rumors and YouTube clickbait, once the abomination of desolation occurs and I see two witnesses, I can count 42 months from that point on, so much for watching and unexpected return, huh?

Once the rapture is framed in its true basis(the gathering of the bride),the whole thing begins to illuminate.

Check this out;
Jesus's first miracle was at a wedding.
First miracle. It is recorded in those words "first miracle"
I contend it HAD to be that way.
Jesus is centered on a wedding.
The book of ruth climaxes on a kinsman redemption and gentile wedding.
The nt opens in power with a Jewish wedding.

Once the wedding is properly viewed it is the prism of the end times understanding.

 

[Absolutely]

I agree that jews will get converted during the latter times. Difference is: I see them as JOINING the church. That one group of people God has

Pretty much so.

The gt is a catalyst to make that happen.

The church age is over at the main harvest.

That is why rev 14 is a "fruit harvest",as opposed to wheat/barley Harvest

.....different harvest. Jewish harvest

 

[Absolutely]

BLUTO QUOTE :"
, "But He answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you." And at vs13, "BE ON THE ALERT THEN, for you do not know the day or the hour." I also suggest you read the rest of Matthew 25 because Jesus is making the same point.

And as a side note, the 4 most lethal words in the Bible as far as I'm concerned can be found at Matthew 7:22,23, "Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Yor name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" vs23, "And then I will declare to them, "I NEVER KNEW YOU;" depart from Me."

LOL,2 separate dynamics that you recklessly combine.
He addresses the foolish virgins (saved believers) as "not known"...which you incorrectly attempt to blend into "never knew"..pssst that means "never saved".

Then you invoke the Holy Spirit while you smear those two oppostes together.

It is comical how postribs need so many changes in the 10 virgin parable.
You just did that.
Lol

 

[Hevosmies]

BLUTO QUOTE :"
, "But He answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you." And at vs13, "BE ON THE ALERT THEN, for you do not know the day or the hour." I also suggest you read the rest of Matthew 25 because Jesus is making the same point.

And as a side note, the 4 most lethal words in the Bible as far as I'm concerned can be found at Matthew 7:22,23, "Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Yor name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" vs23, "And then I will declare to them, "I NEVER KNEW YOU;" depart from Me."

LOL,2 separate dynamics that you recklessly combine.
He addresses the foolish virgins (saved believers) as "not known"...which you incorrectly attempt to blend into "never knew"..pssst that means "never saved".

Then you invoke the Holy Spirit while you smear those two oppostes together.

It is comical how postribs need so many changes in the 10 virgin parable.
You just did that.
Lol

How are they saved believers if Jesus doesn't know them? thats the MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION!

 

[bluto]

I appreciate the funny name changing. But the parable in Matthew 25:1-13 hardly fits a post-trib scheme, because I really do not need to be watching for the Lord's return anytime soon if post-trib Rapture is true, I really do not. Call me when the abomination of desolation occurs, that is when I start watching, before that it is just rumors and YouTube clickbait, once the abomination of desolation occurs and I see two witnesses, I can count 42 months from that point on, so much for watching and unexpected return, huh?

Why would I call you, maybe I'll text you! You have at Matthew 24:3 three of the disciples asking, "What will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age/world?"

At Matthew 24:15 Jesus says, "Therefore (which means in light of what I said previously, verses 4-14) WHEN you see the Abomination of Desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand). Understand what? What we are suppose to do from Matthew 24:16-28.

Then at vs29, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light etc. So here's the question for you? Between Matthew 24:15 and Matthew 24:29-31 where do you "INSERT" the rapture of the church?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Hevosmies]

Why would I call you, maybe I'll text you! You have at Matthew 24:3 three of the disciples asking, "What will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age/world?"

At Matthew 24:15 Jesus says, "Therefore (which means in light of what I said previously, verses 4-14) WHEN you see the Abomination of Desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand). Understand what? What we are suppose to do from Matthew 24:16-28.

Then at vs29, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light etc. So here's the question for you? Between Matthew 24:15 and Matthew 24:29-31 where do you "INSERT" the rapture of the church?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

When you compare Matthew 24:30-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 both have the coming, both got a gathering and we got the timing of it, at the second coming.

I believe thats how people in the FIRST CENTURY read it, if you was a believer and got yourself a letter from Paul and compared it to Matthew's record NO WAY JOSÉ would you think its two SEPARATE comings. This idea of "Oh thats to the jews" is a RECENT development and im not a fan of it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When you compare Matthew 24:30-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 both have the coming, both got a gathering and we got the timing of it, at the second coming.

And that is exactly why one needs to carefully compare these passages to see the differences. The fundamental truth is that at His Second Coming, Christ comes WITH His saints and angels from Heaven itself. There can be no denying this. But in order for that to happen, the saints must already have been in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb.

So when did all the saints enter Heaven? We look at 1 Thess 4:15-17 and we have the answer right there. This passage speaks of the Resurrection/Rapture, therefore 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 must be included. And there we see that the Resurrection/Rapture is *in the twinkling of an eye" (a fraction of a second). And this is where Christ comes FOR His saints.

And then compare that to the Second Coming where the whole unbelieving world sees Christ and the saints and angels coming, but definitely not in a nano-second, since every eye will see him and every person on earth will mourn in fear and trembling.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

When you compare Matthew 24:30-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 both have the coming, both got a gathering and we got the timing of it, at the second coming.

I believe thats how people in the FIRST CENTURY read it, if you was a believer and got yourself a letter from Paul and compared it to Matthew's record NO WAY JOSÉ would you think its two SEPARATE comings. This idea of "Oh thats to the jews" is a RECENT development and im not a fan of it.

That argument ^ reminds me of those who say that the "occasion" in Matt26:6-13/Mk14:3-9/Jn12:1-8 and the one in Lk7:36-50 are one and the same simply because they BOTH use the phrase "an alabaster box of ointment" (and the events sound fairly similar).

https://www.gotquestions.org/alabaster-box.html

[one occasion or two separate occasions?]

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=an+alabaster+box+of+ointment&qs_version=KJV


Lame.

You can do better than that, Hevosmies

 

[Hevosmies]

And that is exactly why one needs to carefully compare these passages to see the differences. The fundamental truth is that at His Second Coming, Christ comes WITH His saints and angels from Heaven itself. There can be no denying this. But in order for that to happen, the saints must already have been in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb.

So when did all the saints enter Heaven? We look at 1 Thess 4:15-17 and we have the answer right there. This passage speaks of the Resurrection/Rapture, therefore 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 must be included. And there we see that the Resurrection/Rapture is *in the twinkling of an eye" (a fraction of a second). And this is where Christ comes FOR His saints.

And then compare that to the Second Coming where the whole unbelieving world sees Christ and the saints and angels coming, but definitely not in a nano-second, since every eye will see him and every person on earth will mourn in fear and trembling.

No issue there. Rapture and second coming can happen at the same time and saints can return with Jesus, no issue whatsoever. Its one of those things on those "rapture passages vs second coming passages" where they nitpick differences like one is a comfort, other is wrath etc.

Its WRATH to unbelievers, REST to believers as it is in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

ANYHOW: How can this be? Well lets say second coming is today, Jesus appears NOW in the sky, BAM we are raptured, and then we come down with Jesus, thats what "meet in the air" means, it means to go up and escort the king down with us! We meet him in the air when He is on His way down.

Thats how you can look at it and no contradiction whatsoever.

 

[Hevosmies]

That argument ^ reminds me of those who say that the "occasion" in Matt26:6-13/Mk14:3-9/Jn12:1-8 and the one in Lk7:36-50 are one and the same simply because they BOTH use the phrase "an alabaster box of ointment" (and the events sound fairly similar).

https://www.gotquestions.org/alabaster-box.html

[one occasion or two separate occasions?]

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=an+alabaster+box+of+ointment&qs_version=KJV


Lame.

You can do better than that, Hevosmies

Not that lame, considering thats how almost EVERYONE has interpreted it since forever. Not that much of a leap, its more of a leap to add a THIRD coming and differentiate between coming "in the sky" vs "to the earth" and make fancy charts. NOW THATS lame!

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You're telling me these are COMPLETELY two different events? OKAY THEN. What type of NERDS do you think they were in the early church?
Rapture is at the LAST TRUMPET, and if the trumpet in Thessalonians 4:16 is BEFORE Matthew 24:31 then it CANT BE the last trumpet. Matthew 24:31 would be the last one.

BY DEFINITION: LAST MEANS LAST, if there is one after that, IT WASNT LAST!

Gotta love eschatology! No two men agree (even in their own camps) and we are all right!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

But the parable in Matthew 25:1-13 hardly fits a post-trib scheme, because I really do not need to be watching for the Lord's return anytime soon if post-trib Rapture is true, I really do not. Call me when the abomination of desolation occurs, that is when I start watching, before that it is just rumors and YouTube clickbait, once the abomination of desolation occurs and I see two witnesses, I can count 42 months from that point on, so much for watching and unexpected return, huh?

While you and I agree on much... HERE is one of the place where we don't see it the same way. I disagree that ANYTHING in Matthew 24-25 is speaking to the Subject of "our Rapture".

I believe "the beginning of birth PANGS" (Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11) are the EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6, and that it (that FUTURE time period [FUTURE even to our Rapture]) commences at SEAL #1 (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 / 1Th5:2-3 (SINGULAR)]"), when it ARRIVES like a thief "IN THE NIGHT" (thus the "NIGHT WATCHES" and the "LAMPS LIT" all speak of that which FOLLOWS our Rapture/THE Departure).

Some people believe that the "no man knows" (like Matt24:36) verses must refer to our Rapture, but I disagree and believe it is speaking of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (and NOT of our Rapture-time-slot); here's a post I just made elsewhere, providing explanation for that (bear in mind it was in the context of a DIFFERENT CONVO online):

[quoting that post]

Matthew 24:36 and its parallels are NOT speaking of our Rapture. I believe the pre-tribbers who say that it IS speaking of our Rapture are mistaken and are using it improperly (out of context).

Additionally, I do not believe the phrase means that no one CAN EVER know, or that no one WILL EVER know; for it is in the "perfect tense indicative," and that basically means that it has been true and will be true until something else comes along that changes that status, and that is what I believe occurred when Jesus ascended (at which time I believe HE NOW "KNOWS") and THEN some 60 yrs LATER supplied FURTHER INFORMATION regarding THAT Subject in "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO His servants [see 7:3] things which must come to pass [<--compare that phrase with 1:19c and 4:1 (the FUTURE aspects of the Book)] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…" (speaking of the IN QUICKNESS [NOUN] time period that is the 7-yr trib/70th-Wk [yet FUTURE; and FUTURE to "our Rapture" event, taking into consideration other factors which I won't go into here]).

So, I believe everything in Matt24-25 speaks of that which takes place FOLLOWING our Rapture ("the beginning of birth PANGS" being equivalent to the "SEALS" of Rev6 at the START of that future 7-yr period), and point toward and lead UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (promised to Israel, and to which "GUESTS [/Gentiles]" will have been being "having been INVITED" [Rev19:9 (not v.7)] all DURING the trib yrs, on the earth [FOLLOWING our Rapture (we'll be UP THERE, during that time-frame)]). Matthew 24:36 speaks of THAT point in time (His Second Coming TO THE EARTH), but is not saying that "no one WILL EVER know, nor CAN EVER know" (Jesus now knows and has disclosed FURTHER INFORMATION on *THAT* very Subject [including a large amount of "timing-clues" and "time-stamps" and "numbers-of-days-durations" etc] in The Revelation [95ad]

[end quoting that post]


The FIRST "birth PANG" (Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 [/1Th5:2-3]) of many MORE "birth PANGS" that follow on from that one, is the equivalent of the FIRST SEAL (so we will not be here for even the FIRST SEAL which STARTS the trib yrs, and thus will not be present on the earth for anything in Matt24-25 which is speaking of the time period LEADING UP TO His 2nd Coming TO THE EARTH, in same). Make sense?

The "10 Virgins [PLURAL]" (or even the 5) are NOT who He is coming to MARRY. They "go in with [G3326] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" which is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His RETURN to the earth [see Lk12:36-37,38,40 also, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!]

 

[Nehemiah6]

No issue there. Rapture and second coming can happen at the same time and saints can return with Jesus, no issue whatsoever.

No, they cannot happen at the same time since two events will intervene between them: (1) the judgment of the works of the saints in Heaven and (2) the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven. See Revelation 19.

 

[John146]

Not that lame, considering thats how almost EVERYONE has interpreted it since forever. Not that much of a leap, its more of a leap to add a THIRD coming and differentiate between coming "in the sky" vs "to the earth" and make fancy charts. NOW THATS lame!

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You're telling me these are COMPLETELY two different events? OKAY THEN. What type of NERDS do you think they were in the early church?
Rapture is at the LAST TRUMPET, and if the trumpet in Thessalonians 4:16 is BEFORE Matthew 24:31 then it CANT BE the last trumpet. Matthew 24:31 would be the last one.

BY DEFINITION: LAST MEANS LAST, if there is one after that, IT WASNT LAST!

Gotta love eschatology! No two men agree (even in their own camps) and we are all right!

It’s not last trumpet, but last trump. That’s the last sound the trumpet makes that particular time. The trumpet blowing is an indication of something upcoming. There can be more than one event where a trumpet sounds, can’t there?

 

[Hevosmies]

No, they cannot happen at the same time since two events will intervene between them: (1) the judgment of the works of the saints in Heaven and (2) the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven. See Revelation 19.

(1) You might have a point I havent looked into that yet. (2) the marriage of the Lamb can happen in earth too, its announced in Rev 19 right before the second coming. Jesus says He wont drink the fruit of the vine until in the kingdom.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not that lame, considering thats how almost EVERYONE has interpreted it since forever. Not that much of a leap, its more of a leap to add a THIRD coming and differentiate between coming "in the sky" vs "to the earth" and make fancy charts. NOW THATS lame!

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You're telling me these are COMPLETELY two different events? OKAY THEN. What type of NERDS do you think they were in the early church?

Rapture is at the LAST TRUMPET, and if the trumpet in Thessalonians 4:16 is BEFORE Matthew 24:31 then it CANT BE the last trumpet. Matthew 24:31 would be the last one.

Good day Hevosmies!

It is important for us to not pigeonhole words or phrases. That said, the trumpet in 1Th. 4:16 is a trumpet to call up the church, where as the great trumpet in Matt.24:31, is a signal for the angels to go throughout the earth and gather the saints who will have made it alive through the entire tribulation period. These are two different types of trumpets with two different purposes.

The reference to "last Trumpet" is not referring to any and every type of trumpet, but the last of a specific type of trumpet. In the OT, there was a different trumpet to signify different events. The "last trumpet" mentioned, is the last of a specific type.

When the resurrection and the living are changed and caught up, angels will not gather the church. The dead in Christ will rise in their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Those who are still alive at that time, will be changed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with them. No angels gather them.

In Matt.24:31, when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, that other type of trumpet will sound and the angels will go throughout the earth and will gather the saints who will have made it alive through the entire tribulation period.

These are two different trumpets with two different purposes.






BY DEFINITION: LAST MEANS LAST, if there is one after that, IT WASNT LAST!

Gotta love eschatology! No two men agree (even in their own camps) and we are all right![/QUOTE]

 

[Ahwatukee]

(1) You might have a point I havent looked into that yet. (2) the marriage of the Lamb can happen in earth too, its announced in Rev 19 right before the second coming. Jesus says He wont drink the fruit of the vine until in the kingdom.

Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride/church being at the wedding of the Lamb as taking place in heaven. This is supported by the fact that in verse 14, the bride with her fine line, is seen to be following the Lord out of heaven to Armageddon. Then there is also the following:

"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” - Rev.17:14

When the Lord returns with Him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers, which is the church/bride.

 

[TooFastTurtle]

While you and I agree on much... HERE is one of the place where we don't see it the same way. I disagree that ANYTHING in Matthew 24-25 is speaking to the Subject of "our Rapture".

I believe "the beginning of birth PANGS" (Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11) are the EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6, and that it (that FUTURE time period [FUTURE even to our Rapture]) commences at SEAL #1 (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 / 1Th5:2-3 (SINGULAR)]"), when it ARRIVES like a thief "IN THE NIGHT" (thus the "NIGHT WATCHES" and the "LAMPS LIT" all speak of that which FOLLOWS our Rapture/THE Departure).

Some people believe that the "no man knows" (like Matt24:36) verses must refer to our Rapture, but I disagree and believe it is speaking of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (and NOT of our Rapture-time-slot); here's a post I just made elsewhere, providing explanation for that (bear in mind it was in the context of a DIFFERENT CONVO online):

[quoting that post]

Matthew 24:36 and its parallels are NOT speaking of our Rapture. I believe the pre-tribbers who say that it IS speaking of our Rapture are mistaken and are using it improperly (out of context).

Additionally, I do not believe the phrase means that no one CAN EVER know, or that no one WILL EVER know; for it is in the "perfect tense indicative," and that basically means that it has been true and will be true until something else comes along that changes that status, and that is what I believe occurred when Jesus ascended (at which time I believe HE NOW "KNOWS") and THEN some 60 yrs LATER supplied FURTHER INFORMATION regarding THAT Subject in "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO His servants [see 7:3] things which must come to pass [<--compare that phrase with 1:19c and 4:1 (the FUTURE aspects of the Book)] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…" (speaking of the IN QUICKNESS [NOUN] time period that is the 7-yr trib/70th-Wk [yet FUTURE; and FUTURE to "our Rapture" event, taking into consideration other factors which I won't go into here]).

So, I believe everything in Matt24-25 speaks of that which takes place FOLLOWING our Rapture ("the beginning of birth PANGS" being equivalent to the "SEALS" of Rev6 at the START of that future 7-yr period), and point toward and lead UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (promised to Israel, and to which "GUESTS [/Gentiles]" will have been being "having been INVITED" [Rev19:9 (not v.7)] all DURING the trib yrs, on the earth [FOLLOWING our Rapture (we'll be UP THERE, during that time-frame)]). Matthew 24:36 speaks of THAT point in time (His Second Coming TO THE EARTH), but is not saying that "no one WILL EVER know, nor CAN EVER know" (Jesus now knows and has disclosed FURTHER INFORMATION on *THAT* very Subject [including a large amount of "timing-clues" and "time-stamps" and "numbers-of-days-durations" etc] in The Revelation [95ad]

[end quoting that post]


The FIRST "birth PANG" (Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 [/1Th5:2-3]) of many MORE "birth PANGS" that follow on from that one, is the equivalent of the FIRST SEAL (so we will not be here for even the FIRST SEAL which STARTS the trib yrs, and thus will not be present on the earth for anything in Matt24-25 which is speaking of the time period LEADING UP TO His 2nd Coming TO THE EARTH, in same). Make sense?

The "10 Virgins [PLURAL]" (or even the 5) are NOT who He is coming to MARRY. They "go in with [G3326] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" which is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His RETURN to the earth [see Lk12:36-37,38,40 also, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!]

Okay. I will take a second look at that, but atleast we are on the same side

Could you tell me if you believe Jesus anywhere referenced the Rapture?

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Why would I call you, maybe I'll text you! You have at Matthew 24:3 three of the disciples asking, "What will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age/world?"

At Matthew 24:15 Jesus says, "Therefore (which means in light of what I said previously, verses 4-14) WHEN you see the Abomination of Desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand). Understand what? What we are suppose to do from Matthew 24:16-28.

Then at vs29, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light etc. So here's the question for you? Between Matthew 24:15 and Matthew 24:29-31 where do you "INSERT" the rapture of the church?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I do not need to insert a rapture between Matthew 24:15-31 because that is not the topic of discussion.

The Rapture and its specific mechanics about how we are translated in a moment in the twinkling of an eye were not yet revealed at that time. It was a mystery revealed to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 where it is spoken of. Just like the mystery of Jew and Gentile being One in Christ.

The Bible has a progressive revelation to it, you need to stop getting stuck at Matthew 24 and read the other verses as well Why the attitude?