What Laws are still valid to christians
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Luke 10:25-28 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Elin said:
Well, sad to say, it is more than technical.
The phrase "letter of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable; while the "spirit of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.
However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills), and not a literal inferior sense of the Law.
The Spirit that gives life is the Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.
It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed.
So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in an incorrect understanding of the law and the Spirit.
Yes, everything about Christ that God planned to be written has been written by the NT writers.
No, he did not.
Read the text again.
Christ was speaking to the apostles at the Last Supper when he promised to ask the Father to send them another Counselor, the Spirit of truth (Jn 14:16-17), who would guide them into all truth.
That was a promise of divine inspiration, and Jesus was not making it to all believers.
Not in this text.
Read it again.
It is Paul himself who speaks God's secret wisdom. . .which is Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col 1:26-27).
There is no secret wisdom apart from the Scriptures.
I appreciate your concern not to misrepresent me. Thanks.
But, actually Paul says he received it from Jesus Christ personally in private revelations.
However, understood as I discussed above, it is not truth.
Well, sad to say, it is more than technical.
The phrase "letter of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable; while the "spirit of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.
However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills), and not a literal inferior sense of the Law.
The Spirit that gives life is the Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.
It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed.
So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in an incorrect understanding of the law and the Spirit.
Yes, everything about Christ that God planned to be written has been written by the NT writers.
No, he did not.
Read the text again.
Christ was speaking to the apostles at the Last Supper when he promised to ask the Father to send them another Counselor, the Spirit of truth (Jn 14:16-17), who would guide them into all truth.
That was a promise of divine inspiration, and Jesus was not making it to all believers.
Not in this text.
Read it again.
It is Paul himself who speaks God's secret wisdom. . .which is Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col 1:26-27).
There is no secret wisdom apart from the Scriptures.
I appreciate your concern not to misrepresent me. Thanks.
But, actually Paul says he received it from Jesus Christ personally in private revelations.
However, understood as I discussed above, it is not truth.
As much as Jesus quoted the OT and used those scriptures in His ministry, it still saddens me. If you do a search of all the places where Jesus referred to the OT, it would be difficult to say that He thought it was a lesser book.
Luke 24:27. "And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."
And your verse in Hebrews doesn't elevate one over the other. It merely states the different ways that God spoke. It seems to me that anytime God speaks throughout history is equally important. I don't think God would say, "You know, I said all this stuff for thousands of years, but really, it's not as important as these other things I said."
Luke 24:27. "And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."
And your verse in Hebrews doesn't elevate one over the other. It merely states the different ways that God spoke. It seems to me that anytime God speaks throughout history is equally important. I don't think God would say, "You know, I said all this stuff for thousands of years, but really, it's not as important as these other things I said."
If you're getting circumcised in order to be righteous, or if you hold on to the idea that because you're circumcised you're righteous, that is what Paul is coming against. But the physical act of circumcision doesn't automatically negate salvation.
If that were the case, both Jesus and Paul would be hypocrites.
If that were the case, both Jesus and Paul would be hypocrites.
M
Agreed. But you are preaching that physical circumcision and other works of the law can be pleasing to God. If you take this logic to its extreme, we should also be rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem so we can once again offer animal sacrifices. It does away with all Christ came and died for.
I haven't yet decided if you are on the tip of heresy, or have plunged into the abyss, but either way, you are on very dangerous and certainly unscriptural ground.
I haven't yet decided if you are on the tip of heresy, or have plunged into the abyss, but either way, you are on very dangerous and certainly unscriptural ground.
Jesus quoted from the OT writings because they were the only ones in existence. They weren't him, but pointed to him, the light who had now come. And "he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself." Those to whom he explained, have now explained to us the very light itself, not in shadows and types as in former times, but in plain language. That in itself is greater revelation.
Jesus said that the one who is least in the kingdom of GOD is greater than any of the writers of the old testament. The new testament is the writings of the new covenant by those who are in the kingdom of GOD. Therefore, their revelation is greater.
So to say that the OT and NT writings are equal is really silly IMO. Both are to be greatly treasured, but by no means are they equal. One points to the reality obscurely; the other describes the reality in clear detail. Both are indispensable, but one is obviously greater than the other.
Jesus said that the one who is least in the kingdom of GOD is greater than any of the writers of the old testament. The new testament is the writings of the new covenant by those who are in the kingdom of GOD. Therefore, their revelation is greater.
So to say that the OT and NT writings are equal is really silly IMO. Both are to be greatly treasured, but by no means are they equal. One points to the reality obscurely; the other describes the reality in clear detail. Both are indispensable, but one is obviously greater than the other.
I can help clarify the matter for you. I'm not in either place.
Again, Jesus told His disciples very plainly they were to follow the Law. Whether you think that it pleases God or not, or even if it should, it ultimately doesn't matter because Jesus told us to follow the law.
Again, Jesus told His disciples very plainly they were to follow the Law. Whether you think that it pleases God or not, or even if it should, it ultimately doesn't matter because Jesus told us to follow the law.
And yet Jesus said the He who follows the Law and teaches others to do so is the greatest in the Kingdom, and those who don't are the least.
Could you give the scripture reference for that, please?
So the writers of the Old Testament didn't receive as much revelation from God as the writers of the New?
And yet Jesus said the He who follows the Law and teaches others to do so is the greatest in the Kingdom, and those who don't are the least.
You would do well to revisit this Mathew verse that you base so much of your theology on. Did you ever consider the possibility that Jesus wasn't referring to obedience to the letter, but to the spirit? He was not shy to say things that tested people's faith, like 'unless you drink my blood', and 'unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees'. He is not called a stone of stumbling for no reason.
Not even comparable. OT writers saw in vague visions. The NT writers saw the light itself in all his glory.
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the word of life— and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was revealed to us— what we have seen and heard, we announce to you also, in order that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:1-3
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G
yes, but then it was prophesied that there would be a new covenant:
Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
which Jesus did:
Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
which Jesus did:
Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
H
Any one who thinks he has better revelation than the New Testament is a false prophet. Jesus and His apostles are the end of speaking from God. The N.T. is superior to the O.T. in the idea, it reveals the mysteries of the old. Jesus "fulfills" the Old. The old laws have no more control over us. The eternal trues of God in the Old are still eternal trues. but there are no laws in the old that are for us to obey. The N.T. is the only law we have to obey, the laws of Jesus and the Apostles. This makes it very easy for a simpleton like me, if the command is not in the N.T. , I don't obey it. Period! Love to all, Hoffco.