What Laws are still valid to christians

[Hoffco]

What do we learn about God in these times of such disaster? Do we keep telling the lie, "God is good, all the time" That is not the teaching of the Bible, nor the teaching of natural disasters. The God of the Bible is in control of all things,even the wind and the rain do His will. God is Sovereign,like it or not, God has caused all natural disasters, directly or indirectly. Romans 11:22 "Therefore consider the goodness and the severity of God:" When will Christians stop lieing about God? God is terrible in His judgments against sinners. This is for another thread. And as far as I am concerned, this thread is a waste of good time, if we can not broaden our scoupe of discussion.

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."




SO do these verses abrogate prior verses as does in Islam? Or are you preaching a faith alone, which is not really faith at all salvation? IMO what these writers considered faith and what modern day people consider faith are 2 different things =

Hebrews 3:18-19, "And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Do you see how no distinction is made between disobedience and unbelief? However the western mind makes a LARGE distinction between the 2. How can we say we understand the word of Yahweh, when we dont think in the same manner as the men who were used by Yahweh to write it?

Yaaqob 2:22 7 26, "Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?" "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Faith in the finished work of Christ alone has produced in me the Love of God that no flesh or anything in this world understands or ever can
without the spirit, being born again one can't see the kingdom of God

 

[homwardbound]

Which is why each one's personal "revelation" (interpretation) is not authoritative for the Church.


Now that's some "revelation" one can use!

Thanks it is all God and none of anyone else I mean while we were yet sinners he went to the cross for us anyway to first die for us, so we can agree to be dead to flesh with him, and then he rose for us, to give us new life in the Spirit of God seeing how that today is the only way God can be worshipped John 4:23-24

 

[chubbena]

Yes, just as Jesus said, if Mt 22:37-40 is obeyed, then none of the Ten Commandments will be disobeyed, or broken.

See Ro 13:8-10.

Is Rom 13:8-10 about fulfillment of the whole law? What was the context about?
What about "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind"? Does Rom 13:8-10 cover that?

Not only was circumcision an issue causing tension to the Gentiles,
but because "the law had been preached in every city from the earliest times,"
there were likewise many Jews in the church of Antioch who were particularly
repulsed by the Gentiles eating food sacrificed to idols (1Co 8:7-13), meat of
strangled animals and blood, and by their proclivity to sexual immorality.
These issues were making it difficult for Christian Jews and Gentiles to fellowship
in the church of Antioch. So the stipulations regarding food were temporary
concessions to the sensitivities of the Jews, while dropping the demand for
circumcision would ease the tension for the Gentiles.

Two things:
a. FOR Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day: The gentles must first abstain from idolatry, sexual immorality, food of strangled animals and blood before they could be admitted in the synagogues to further listen to the law of God through Moses. They had to stop working on Sabbath day in order to go to the synagogues, correct? The Sabbath commandment is in the law of God through Moses, isn't it? So they were to listen to the commandments but were not to obey the commandments? Doesn't make sense.
b. Did the bible say the stipulations regarding food were temporary concessions to the sensitivities of the Jews?

 

[homwardbound]

Ecclesia is the "called-out assembly."

It's a whole lot easier to say "church," but call it ecclesia if you like.

However, the NT disagrees with you.
The ecclesia (called-out assembly) is the temple of God (1Co 3:16).

Me as a believer, is now my old flesh that died with Christ at the cross is now the temple of God as is with all the ones that believe God and are born again by God the Father at the resurrected Christ in the spirit of God
Ecclesia= called out ones, from this world and its evil doings, unto God's kingdom, Heaven where we are made citizens of

 

[Elin]

Is Rom 13:8-10 about fulfillment of the whole law? What was the context about?
What about "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind"? Does Rom 13:8-10 cover that?
Two things:
a. FOR Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day:
The gentles must first abstain from idolatry,

That's not what the text states.. .words matter.. .you handle the word of God too loosely.

Believing Gentiles did not practice idolatry!

The text states: "You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols." (Ac 15:29)
Their freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5) did not forbid eating food sacrificed to idols (1Co 8:4-13).
The Gentiles were to forego some of their freedoms in Christ for the sake of their Jewish Christian brothers, who from of old had heard the law of Moses read to them in the synagogue, and were, therefore, particularly offended by these practices.

sexual immorality, food of strangled animals and blood before they could be admitted in the synagogues to further listen to the law of God through Moses. They had to stop working on Sabbath day in order to go to the synagogues, correct? The Sabbath commandment is in the law of God through Moses, isn't it? So they were to listen to the commandments but were not to obey the commandments? Doesn't make sense.

This is so lame. . .

Unless the Antioch synagogue had been transformed into a Christian fellowship with no unbelieving Jews, the Apostles had no authority to tell the Jewish synagogue that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised.

Acts 15 is addressed to a Christian fellowship in Antioch made up of believing Jews and Gentiles.
Both Jew and Gentile Christians were under the authority of the Apostles.

Acts 15 has nothing to do with a mixed fellowship of unbelieving Jews and believing Gentiles, who were seeking admittance into an unbelieving Jewish synagogue.

Acts 15 is about making the Gentiles' freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5; 1Co 8:4-13) less objectionable to the sensitivities of the believing Jews, because their freedom in Christ was disrupting their Christian fellowship.

b. Did the bible say the stipulations regarding food were temporary concessions to the sensitivities of the Jews?

Act 15:5 makes pretty clear who had the problem with Christian freedom.

"Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, 'The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.' "

 

[letti]

The heart must be circumcised.Practicing,solely laws without a circumcised heart, was attributed to the pharisees.This is why they were made hypocrites.

 

[Elin]

did Paul preach against the law of Moses?

See Ro 13:8-10.

Is Rom 13:8-10 about fulfillment of the whole law?

Your question is both irrelevant and has no bearing on the point of the conversation.

What was the context about?

Check it out.

 

[letti]

Take eating pork for example, Christ said I was not what you ate that mattered.I't is what comes out of a man,from his heart that makes him unclean,that which proceeds from his lips,lies,cursing all sorts of iniquity.That which he stores in his heart,and mind that is sinful.The true condition of a man from within.

 

[chubbena]

Their freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5) did not forbid eating food sacrificed to idols (1Co 8:4-13).

Really? Did you read 1 Cor 10:20?

This is so lame. . .

Unless the Antioch synagogue had been transformed into a Christian fellowship with no unbelieving Jews, the Apostles had no authority to tell the Jewish synagogue that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised.

Acts 15 is addressed to a Christian fellowship in Antioch made up of believing Jews and Gentiles.
Both Jew and Gentile Christians were under the authority of the Apostles.

Acts 15 has nothing to do with a mixed fellowship of unbelieving Jews and believing Gentiles, who were seeking admittance into an unbelieving Jewish synagogue.

Acts 15 is about making the Gentiles' freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5; 1Co 8:4-13) less objectionable to the sensitivities of the believing Jews, because their freedom in Christ was disrupting their Christian fellowship.

I consider the word "lame" abusive and provocative. You will be repaid.
Do you know salvation is from the Jews? The believing Jews? Didn't Yeshua say so and "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth?"

Act 15:5 makes pretty clear who had the problem with Christian freedom.

"Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, 'The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.' "

If such is the case, James didn't have to say: FOR Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[chubbena]

Your question is both irrelevant and has no bearing on the point of the conversation.


Check it out.

I know what it's about but you? Is there a reason why you can't give a straight answer?

 

[Elin]

---

Their freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5) did not forbid eating food sacrificed to idols (1Co 8:4-13).

Really? Did you read 1 Cor 10:20?

So you are setting Paul against himself in 1Co 8:4-13 and 1Co 10:20?
Your hermeneutic needs a little work.

Exegesis of 1Co 10:14-20:
"Flee from idolatry (v.14). . .

because just as in the Lord's Supper partaking of the cup and the bread
is to participate in his blood and body (vv. 15-17),
and just as in Israel, eating the sacrifices was to participate in the altar (v.18),

now, not that an idol or its sacrifice is anything (v.19). . .

but the sacrifices of pagans to idols are really sacrifices to demons,
and demons are not nothing, as are idols,
so I don't want you eating with pagans in their temple feasts
because that is to become participants with demons (v.20).

In 1Co 8 & 10, Paul is talking about two different things:
they may eat food sacrificed to idols when it is sold in the market (1Co 8:4-13),
because they are not then participating in the sacrifices to demons,
but to eat it with pagans in their temple feasts is to participate in their sacrifices to demons.
(1Co 10:20)

The gentles must first abstain from idolatry,

Believing Gentiles did not practice idolatry!

That's not what the text states.. .words matter.. .you handle the word of God too loosely.

The text states: "You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols." (Ac 15:29)

Their freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5) did not forbid eating food sacrificed to idols (1Co 8:4-13).
The Gentiles were to forego some of their freedoms in Christ for the sake of their Jewish Christian brothers, who from of old had heard the law of Moses read to them in the synagogue, and were, therefore, particularly offended by these practices.

sexual immorality, food of strangled animals and blood before they could be admitted in the synagogues to further listen to the law of God through Moses. They had to stop working on Sabbath day in order to go to the synagogues, correct? The Sabbath commandment is in the law of God through Moses, isn't it? So they were to listen to the commandments but were not to obey the commandments? Doesn't make sense.

This is so lame. . .

Unless the Antioch synagogue had been transformed into a Christian fellowship with no unbelieving Jews,
the Apostles had no authority to tell the Jewish synagogue that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised.

Acts 15 is addressed to a Christian fellowship in Antioch made up of believing Jews and Gentiles.
Both Jew and Gentile Christians were under the authority of the Apostles.

Acts 15 has nothing to do with a mixed fellowship of unbelieving Jews and believing Gentiles, who were seeking admittance into an unbelieving Jewish synagogue.

Acts 15 is about making the Gentiles' freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5; 1Co 8:4-13) less objectionable to the sensitivities of the believing Jews, because their freedom in Christ was disrupting their Christian fellowship.

I consider the word "lame" abusive and provocative. You will be repaid.

Interesting. . .

I guess we are both incensed:
me--for your misstating Scripture, stating Paul told believing Gentiles to abstain from idolatry,
and your loose handling of Scripture, implying believing Gentiles practiced idolatry,
along with your illogical explanation of Acts 15:21, that the Apostles were giving insructions on
circumcision to a Jewish synagogue, which illogic you failed to address, and

you--for my labeling as lame your misstating, loose handling and illogic in defending
your unbiblical view.

Do you know salvation is from the Jews? The believing Jews? Didn't Yeshua say so and "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth?"

Are you saying that Gentiles are not to preach the gospel?

If such is the case, James didn't have to say: FOR Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Indeed he did, for James is giving the reason for the concessions to the Jews.
For generations, from childhood they had been trained in the law,
which was from the highly venerated Moses, to whom and through whom God spoke.
So the Gentiles needed to bear with them if they hated to part with the law (1Co 8:4-13),
and must gradually ease them into their freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5).

 

[Elin]

I know what it's about but you? Is there a reason why you can't give a straight answer?

I choose not to go down that bunny trail when it has been previously addressed ad nauseum in this thread.

Review the thread.

 

[chubbena]

So you are setting Paul against himself in 1Co 8:4-13 and 1Co 10:20?
Your hermeneutic needs a little work.

Exegesis of 1Co 10:14-20:
"Flee from idolatry (v.14). . .

because just as in the Lord's Supper partaking of the cup and the bread
is to participate in his blood and body (vv. 15-17),
and just as in Israel, eating the sacrifices was to participate in the altar (v.18),

now, not that an idol or its sacrifice is anything (v.19). . .

but the sacrifices of pagans to idols are really sacrifices to demons,
and demons are not nothing, as are idols,
so I don't want you eating with pagans in their temple feasts
because that is to become participants with demons (v.20).

In 1Co 8 & 10, Paul is talking about two different things:
they may eat food sacrificed to idols when it is sold in the market (1Co 8:4-13),
because they are not then participating in the sacrifices to demons,
but to eat it with pagans in their temple feasts is to participate in their sacrifices to demons.
(1Co 10:20)

Did Paul say take out is ok while eat in is not?

Interesting. . .

I guess we are both incensed:
me--for your misstating Scripture, stating Paul told believing Gentiles to abstain from idolatry,
and your loose handling of Scripture, implying believing Gentiles practiced idolatry,
along with your illogical explanation of Acts 15:21, that the Apostles were giving insructions on
circumcision to a Jewish synagogue, which illogic you failed to address, and

you--for my labeling as lame your misstating, loose handling and illogic in defending
your unbiblical view.

I don't know about you but I'm not. I'm merely pointing out what you said was not Christian-like, which is not the first time, isn't it?

Are you saying that Gentiles are not to preach the gospel?

To use the strategy you frequently employ: you might want to ask Jesus.

Indeed he did, for James is giving the reason for the concessions to the Jews.
For generations, from childhood they had been trained in the law,
which was from the highly venerated Moses, to whom and through whom God spoke.
So the Gentiles needed to bear with them if they hated to part with the law (1Co 8:4-13),
and must gradually ease them into their freedom in Christ (Gal 2:4-5).

The gentile believers could have set up their own church studying scripture and worship on a different day, correct?
Wait, haven't they already done so?

 

[chubbena]

I choose not to go down that bunny trail when it has been previously addressed ad nauseum in this thread.

Review the thread.

you are right. If the gospel writers or Jesus were like you the NT could be a lot shorter.

 

[Elin]

I consider the word "lame" abusive and provocative. You will be repaid.

Interesting. . .

I guess we are both incensed:
me--for your misstating Scripture, stating Paul told believing Gentiles to abstain from idolatry,
and your loose handling of Scripture, implying believing Gentiles practiced idolatry,
along with your illogical explanation of Acts 15:21, that the Apostles were giving insructions on
circumcision to a Jewish synagogue, which illogic you failed to address, and

you--for my labeling as lame your misstating, loose handling and illogic in defending
your unbiblical view.

I don't know about you but I'm not. I'm merely pointing out what you said was not Christian-like,

Good to hear.

Guess I misunderstood your bolded comment.

 

[Isdaniel]

proverbs 28

9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

 

[homwardbound]

God is not a tyrant, God is just in all God does period. We are the creation Hoffco, God is the creator. So what do you think God wants? Us to create or to respond to God. Which one pleases God? Did Christ create or respond to Father?

 

[homwardbound]

Take eating pork for example, Christ said I was not what you ate that mattered.I't is what comes out of a man,from his heart that makes him unclean,that which proceeds from his lips,lies,cursing all sorts of iniquity.That which he stores in his heart,and mind that is sinful.The true condition of a man from within.

So maybe time to just believe God that he took care of all that was needed through Son for us to get a heart transplant for Father thanks to Son by Son at Son's death cleansed the deck to present us Holy before Father and Father when we believe we receive the heart transplant, a free gift from Father thanks to Son Christ? Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! maybe can that be true from Father
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

What Laws are left any besides belief? Not by works? ever. Flesh itself has no righteousness does it? Any of its own ever?
If I have to earn before or after then this gift is made void from God, praying we re listening.
If I or anyone could be righteous by works at all ever, then Christ went to the cross in vain and the power there is made of no effect.

 

[homwardbound]

proverbs 28

9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Today Jesus is the Law of Love to all from God the Father passed over the Law giver Moses. passed from death literally trying to be perfect in and of self to life in the resurrected Christ in the Spirit of God, by Father. Maybe read Romans 6 and 7, praying God opens your ears to the Spirit, if God has not already done so through the cross of Son, death first to flesh then life in the resurrected Christ via the Spirit of God living in and through us. We being nothing more than A vessel to be used by God the Father as Father directs just the same as Christ did, led by Father in the Holy Ghost of Father. did not Jesus after ascension send us the same Holy Ghost that led him?
So what Law are we under the letter or Spirit, not that Spirit is Law. I know having a choice I have come not to trust self or any worldly things here on earth, giving my all to God through Son, Thank you Jesus fro this, that I know I could never earn ever. So I gave up and God took over. Maybe time for us all to quit hiding the Lamp (CHRIST) in just our hearts and ask God for the exchanged life. My life for his Life. me reckoned as dead at the cross the death of Christ, then see the new life in the resurrected Christ in the Spirit of Christ, because today in the Spirit is the only way God can be worshipped in truth
John 4:23-24. Praying God opens up our heart and we get and see the new heart that God gives us through the cross of Son, and no other way to get this, for Christ is the way, the truth and the life unto Father and this is attained through the cross