Jesus was the end of the Law Rom 10:4. The Law was only given to the Jews and not Christians. There are many things which are sin, which can be considered law and you are not to violate them. Really though, Jesus summed it up at: (Matthew 22:34-40) [SUP]34[/SUP] After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. [SUP]35[/SUP] And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: [SUP]36[/SUP] "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" [SUP]37[/SUP] He said to him: "‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ [SUP]38[/SUP] This is the greatest and first commandment. [SUP]39[/SUP] The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ [SUP]40[/SUP] On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."
What Laws are still valid to christians
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H
A few general observations from my reading the last page. Does LOVE "cover" the law toward God and man? I would rather say; does LOVE (INCLUDE) both sides of the moral law? "cover", says to me, If I love God and man, then I can forget the Law. In other words, The law is gone and has no place in the Christian's life. NO WAY! We are to keep the letter and the spirit of the law. The letter says, don't kill; the spirit says, I don't want to kill, or, I want to kill, but I choose to love,LOL, have we not all said,Or thought, of some one, "I wish I could kill him".? But we ,really don't,kill them , Or we are saying, If I had the authority, I would give that person to the death sentence. ANOTHER THING: "dying with Jesus" is not a literal thing but a spiritual thing. We were not literally cricified "with" Jesus on the cross, The cross did nothing TO us. The cross did everything FOR us. Jesus' death only potentially saved us, not ACTUALLY saved us. I was crucified with Christ.LEGALLY, 2,000 yrs, ago; BUT my salvation experience was in 1961,when God circumised my heart and forgave my sins. THEN, I was enabled by God's work in me, to repent, trust and obey Jesus. And now I live for Jesus and know I am going to Heaven when I die. ANOTHER THING, Just because some pharisee "believed in Jesus does not mean they were saved. The Jews who wanted to kill Paul were not saved. Many who "believe"in Jesus today and insist on keeping the sabbath, feasts, dietary laws, most likely, are not saved. They have aborted grace. Love to all, Hoffco
H
A few general observations from my reading the last page. Does LOVE "cover" the law toward God and man? I would rather say; does LOVE (INCLUDE) both sides of the moral law? "cover", says to me, If I love God and man, then I can forget the Law. In other words, The law is gone and has no place in the Christian's life. NO WAY! We are to keep the letter and the spirit of the law. The letter says, don't kill; the spirit says, I don't want to kill, or, I want to kill, but I choose to love,LOL, have we not all said,Or thought, of some one, "I wish I could kill him".? But we ,really don't,kill them , Or we are saying, If I had the authority, I would give that person to the death sentence. ANOTHER THING: "dying with Jesus" is not a literal thing but a legal, potential thing. We were not literally cricified "with" Jesus on the cross, The cross did nothing TO us. The cross did everything FOR us. Jesus' death only potentially saved us, not ACTUALLY saved us. I was crucified with Christ.LEGALLY, 2,000 yrs, ago; BUT my salvation experience was in 1961,when God circumised my heart and forgave my sins. THEN, I was enabled by God's work in me, to repent, trust and obey Jesus. And now I live for Jesus and know I am going to Heaven when I die. ANOTHER THING, Just because some pharisee "believed in Jesus does not mean they were saved. The Jews who wanted to kill Paul were not saved. Many who "believe"in Jesus today and insist on keeping the sabbath, feasts, dietary laws, most likely, are not saved. They have aborted grace. Love to all, Hoffco
H
Sorry for the double post, but it is a technical problem with this site or my computer. I click, post and got the message, "you can not post again" for, so many seconds. I don'think the timer on this site works well. who knows, not me, it is a big mystery to me. But , I will say a BIG THANK YOU, to this sire for letting me participate, I do enjoy talking The Bible to others. Love to all, Hoffco
Please tell m e if I am wrong in this:
I agree that the Love of God is the fulfillment of all Law, as all law hangs off the two of Love/
Yet if "I" try to fulfill them and do or not do this, am I in essence under Law still? I mean cause I can go to God and ask for more forgiveness right? And then pick me back up by my boot straps and begin all over again as to attain what Christ has already attained yes or no?
And if yes to that, how can I then claim "I" am walking by Faith? Faith is belief right? And in God this Faith (belief) is not by man's works is it?
I agree that the Love of God is the fulfillment of all Law, as all law hangs off the two of Love/
Yet if "I" try to fulfill them and do or not do this, am I in essence under Law still? I mean cause I can go to God and ask for more forgiveness right? And then pick me back up by my boot straps and begin all over again as to attain what Christ has already attained yes or no?
And if yes to that, how can I then claim "I" am walking by Faith? Faith is belief right? And in God this Faith (belief) is not by man's works is it?
H
Faith with out obedience is dead. To Homwardbound, I think your heart in good and holy and wanting to obey God, and you do live for Jesus; but, your real problem is samatics, meanings of words, Your definition of real saving faith is wrong,you have bought into the modern gnosticism of glorifing "FAITH " apart from works, this can/should not be done,in the extreme way that preachers do it. Most good ,evangelical pastors have a good heart but bad thinking .like you. You said,"faith is belief", this is wrong, real faith is action, commitment to the real beliefs of the Bible.Faith is not the action of God, it is our action by God's enablement., power. Faith is work on our part "the work of God" is our action not God's action. You are allowing yourself to be deceived by Jesus words, many of His words were given as a "trick" to keep the non-elect from coming to a real commitment to Himself, He put up smoke screens to keep the non-elect in the dark, so, they would not come to the real faith, commitment to Him, and He would HAVE to honor His priomise to save the sinner ,who repents, trusts, and obeys Him. As God hardened the heart of Pharow. Love to all, Hoffco
H
"how can "I" claim to walk by faith?" homward, this is good; But you don't rightly define what "walking" means. It is OBEYING the MORAL laws OF JESUS. Which YOU do every day; BUT your twisted thinking will not allow you to put into BIBLICAL words, Just read the Bible with an open mind to receive Jesus' WHOLE message. Love to all, Hoffco
You know what's interesting? I stopped contributing and reading this thread weeks ago. So for kicks, I took a look at the recent stuff.
For the most part, its the same arguments by both sides about the same things. So out of genuine curiosity, has anyone who's been active in this thread learned something or been prompted by the Spirit to change anything?
Peace,
Matt
For the most part, its the same arguments by both sides about the same things. So out of genuine curiosity, has anyone who's been active in this thread learned something or been prompted by the Spirit to change anything?
Peace,
Matt
I was away for longer than that, and what I have determined is that the carnal mind can't be subject to the law and that's why there will be never ending arguments with the carnal minded people who keep arguing.
Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
hmm interesting this thread is still going i only have one thing to say, tonight a friend invited me to bible study and i met some amazing people some young born again christians also, and we were discussing among ourselves and one of them said, we are born to a sinful nature which means we are slaves to sin he also gave his testimony of being addicted to pornography and how God change him and only God can change him he also talked about his cousin i believe that is hooked on cannabis, his parents tried taking him to rehab nothing work, why didn't it work? because he is still in a fleshful nature so he has to yield towards sin no matter what he does or how hard he tries, so the point i'm trying to make is, how can we follow something when we have a sinful nature? how can you tell someone do this or that when by nature we are slaves to it and must do it? if you don't know my story i will give you a briefing about it, i was hooked on cannabis also and pornography, what did you think change me? did you think you think looking at the 10 commandments change me and made me whole? No. absolutely not, that's just the thing.. if only God can truly save you why are you looking to something else? because of God i am no longer hooked on pornography, cannabis or that sinful nature, so after seeing the power of christ why would you just ignore all that he has down and run back to dead works? " thou shalt not do such and such " please see what i am trying to say i'm not saying the law is bad or evil all i'm saying is.. your only focus should be on CHRIST and christ alone everything else is a distractions, remember we have to surrender our lives to him, which means let him live the life and lead it for us not we doing our own thing, i hope you take this into your heart and understand what i am trying to say God bless you all
Thank you Hoffco for your deep concern it is appreciated, yet you do not know me, nor I you. I do know that God just love me and it is my response to God as in King David's response of the coming Messiah in his time when written by King David
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
Today I see it this as looking back in utter thankfulness and do as I am led by God not man. I call it bloom wherever I am planted
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
Today I see it this as looking back in utter thankfulness and do as I am led by God not man. I call it bloom wherever I am planted
Hello,
1 Tim.1
[5] Now the end of the (Christian) commandment is (@) charity out of a pure heart,
and of a good conscience, and of (1) faith (in the Father and the Son) unfeigned:
[6] From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[7] Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
Take care.
1 Tim.1
[5] Now the end of the (Christian) commandment is (@) charity out of a pure heart,
and of a good conscience, and of (1) faith (in the Father and the Son) unfeigned:
[6] From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[7] Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
Take care.
***
Hello,
Agreed my friend,
As you say PLUS faith in the Father and the Son.
John.14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God (1), believe also in me (2)
I lost 30 years of my life before I got into the very valuable invisible side.
Most 'live' in 'death.'
Nothing works without CORRECT baptism and few know how it is done.
This is a 'religion' with secrets/ mysteries >>>
Matt.7
[6] Give not that which is holy (??) unto the dogs,
neither cast ye your pearls (??) before swine,
lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matt.16
[20] Then charged he his disciples/ Apostles
that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Luke.10
[21] In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said,
I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
that thou hast >> hidden these things from the wise (in their own eyes)
and prudent (in their own eyes),
and hast revealed them unto babes (the compliant/ co-operative ones):
even so, (good) Father; for so it seemed good in thy (unbiased) sight.
[22] All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth who (1) the Son is, but the Father;
and who (2) the Father is, but the Son,
and he to whom the Son reveals him.
I'm new here and I'm glad that you saw the TRUE Christian Law.
Keep well.
Hello,
Agreed my friend,
As you say PLUS faith in the Father and the Son.
John.14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God (1), believe also in me (2)
I lost 30 years of my life before I got into the very valuable invisible side.
Most 'live' in 'death.'
Nothing works without CORRECT baptism and few know how it is done.
This is a 'religion' with secrets/ mysteries >>>
Matt.7
[6] Give not that which is holy (??) unto the dogs,
neither cast ye your pearls (??) before swine,
lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matt.16
[20] Then charged he his disciples/ Apostles
that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Luke.10
[21] In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said,
I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
that thou hast >> hidden these things from the wise (in their own eyes)
and prudent (in their own eyes),
and hast revealed them unto babes (the compliant/ co-operative ones):
even so, (good) Father; for so it seemed good in thy (unbiased) sight.
[22] All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth who (1) the Son is, but the Father;
and who (2) the Father is, but the Son,
and he to whom the Son reveals him.
I'm new here and I'm glad that you saw the TRUE Christian Law.
Keep well.
H
To Wordsponge, Thank you for your words of wisdom. It is really sad to see the apostacy in the churches todays. I have been blessed lately by John MacArthurs tapes on "Strange Fire". I enjoy all his sermons, and John Pippers'. I am a retired lay pastor, widowed , remarried and a missionary in Davao city, Philippines. Love to all, Hoffco
You have done exactly what law keepers do - claiming we are obligated to follow the law of Moses, but then pick and choose which commandments and laws they want to keep. If we must keep the 9 commandments, where is the authorization to dispense with (or delete as you said) the 4th commandment? Christ said that not a jot or tittle of the law was to be done away with, yet you say an entire commandment has been deleted?
There is no such thing as GOD's moral law. There is only GOD's spiritual law. Moral law is an invention of fallen man to subvert, gut and ignore GOD's spiritual law, which has very severe penalties for disobedience. Men seek to avoid the condemnation of GOD's spiritual law my co-opting it and transforming it into something that matches their imagined level of obedience, and call it GOD's moral law. An example of this is saying that GOD's moral law is 9, but not 10, commandments.
GOD's spiritual law requires perfect righteousness. There is only one way to attain that: faith in the son of GOD and loving one's neighbor as one's self.
There is no such thing as GOD's moral law. There is only GOD's spiritual law. Moral law is an invention of fallen man to subvert, gut and ignore GOD's spiritual law, which has very severe penalties for disobedience. Men seek to avoid the condemnation of GOD's spiritual law my co-opting it and transforming it into something that matches their imagined level of obedience, and call it GOD's moral law. An example of this is saying that GOD's moral law is 9, but not 10, commandments.
GOD's spiritual law requires perfect righteousness. There is only one way to attain that: faith in the son of GOD and loving one's neighbor as one's self.
N
Paul makes it clear in Romans.
ALL THINGS ARE LAWFUL, BUT NOT ALL THINGS ARE BENEFICIAL.
IF it is no longer you who lives but Christ "God" who lives in you.
Then ALL things that you do don't determine who you are.
The bigger question here is what are we here for??, and if we walk in the light as he is in the light, what can we achieve???
Sin holds us back from what we can believe in our minds. "The battle is in your mind"
Sin stops us from believing that God is alive in us!
We need to do as Jeshua did.
He saw who he was through the scriptures as God incarnate.
And WE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD ASWELL. JESHUA WAS OUR OLDER BROTHER LIKE THE PRODICAL SON TELLS US.
AND ESAW.
IF WE OBEY GOD, not for our salvation but for the kingdoms cause, WE BRING THE FULNESS OF THE KINGDOM.
Christ comes alive IN US.
"Why do you stand gazing into heaven?" The same Christ you saw go into heaven will so come in LIKE MANNER AS YOU SAW HIM GO" he isn't coming down ppl!!!!
ALL THINGS ARE LAWFUL, BUT NOT ALL THINGS ARE BENEFICIAL.
IF it is no longer you who lives but Christ "God" who lives in you.
Then ALL things that you do don't determine who you are.
The bigger question here is what are we here for??, and if we walk in the light as he is in the light, what can we achieve???
Sin holds us back from what we can believe in our minds. "The battle is in your mind"
Sin stops us from believing that God is alive in us!
We need to do as Jeshua did.
He saw who he was through the scriptures as God incarnate.
And WE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD ASWELL. JESHUA WAS OUR OLDER BROTHER LIKE THE PRODICAL SON TELLS US.
AND ESAW.
IF WE OBEY GOD, not for our salvation but for the kingdoms cause, WE BRING THE FULNESS OF THE KINGDOM.
Christ comes alive IN US.
"Why do you stand gazing into heaven?" The same Christ you saw go into heaven will so come in LIKE MANNER AS YOU SAW HIM GO" he isn't coming down ppl!!!!