What Laws are still valid to christians

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Entole is virtually always translated as commandment, not law. But quibbling about calling entole commandment or law is pointless. The point is that John didn't say laws or commandments (plural); he said commandment (singular).
.......................

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

For there are certian men who have crept in and turn the mercy of Yahweh into a license to sin......
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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It doesent sa on the 2 Commandments hang some of the Law it says all. If we break any of them we have broken one of these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 2:4-11, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai (Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.”
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Which all boils down to this...

This is [GOD's] commandment -- that we should believe in the name of his son Jesus Christ, and we should love one another, as he gave commandment. 1 John 3:23
How do we love? Our way or His way?

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity abound, the love of the many will grow cold.."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Yahweh's Law is LOVE, and directly connected to loving Yahweh's way.
 
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It doesent sa on the 2 Commandments hang some of the Law it says all. If we break any of them we have broken one of these 2.
No it means that when we keep these 2 commandments, we have kept everything required by the 10 commandments. You place the letter above the spirit. The spirit wrote the letter. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. You basically are saying that the 2 greatest commandments hang on the 10 lesser commandments.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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No it means that when we keep these 2 commandments, we have kept everything required by the 10 commandments. You place the letter above the spirit. The spirit wrote the letter. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. You basically are saying that the 2 greatest commandments hang on the 10 lesser commandments.
So you may lie and your still keeping the 2?

Or worship gods and still keep the 2?

Or etc, etc, etc, etc, and still keep the 2?

We will keep it simple, which of the 10 can you break and still keep the 2? Prove to me we can break one of these and still keep the 2 and I will never preach faith + works.

What you say is nonsense, do you even believe what you said?
 
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How do we love? Our way or His way?
Concerning brotherly love, I do not have need to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another, 1 Thessalonians 4:9

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
This is Yahweh's law: That we believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Are you a part of the Covenant ratified in Yahshua's blood? If so how can you be in such oppisition to the thing that is written on the hearts of those who are a part of Yahweh's Salvation to mankind?

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."
8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The rule of life for the Christian is not the Ten Commandments, but the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. We are to put on Christ, not the Ten Commandments.

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Hmmm, and yet the very words of Christ say...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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That's a false characterization that I don't participate in. The bible plainly says that those in Christ are dead to the law of Moses. Laws have no authority over dead people. So again, if you are under the law's authority, that just means you haven't been baptized (spiritually) into Christ.
Why is obedience associated with baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Which all boils down to this...

This is [GOD's] commandment -- that we should believe in the name of his son Jesus Christ, and we should love one another, as he gave commandment. 1 John 3:23​
Actually, it boils down to two Great Commandments...

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These two Great Commandments are the brief comprehension of the Ten Commandments. You know, the Law that Paul established...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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So you may lie and your still keeping the 2?
Or worship gods and still keep the 2?
Or etc, etc, etc, etc, and still keep the 2?
We will keep it simple, which of the 10 can you break and still keep the 2? Prove to me we can break one of these and still keep the 2 and I will never preach faith + works.
What you say is nonsense, do you even believe what you said?
We've played this little game before; and you are no fun to play with because you run away to avoid answering the tough questions. So I won't bite; it's a waste of time.

Nevertheless...

The letters of the law are to be distinguished from the spirit of the law. The spirit wrote the letters, which are just a means of describing the invisible law of GOD. You believe that the letters themselves are GOD's law and are immutable, even though this has been shown to not be the case numerous times.

David broke the letter of the law when he ate showbread from the sanctuary, but obeyed the law of GOD: faith.

The disciples broke the letter of the law by gleaning grain on the sabbath, but were justified by their faith in Christ. (I know. You want so badly to say that they broke the pharisees' law, not the law of Moses. But the Israelites who merely tried to gather manna in the wilderness on the sabbath, but didn't actually gather any because there wasn't any to gather, were condemned by GOD; whereas the disciples actually gathered grain on the sabbath.)

And then there's the priests working on the sabbath, and Boaz marrying a Moabite (which the law forbade) and being blessed with being an ancestor of both King David and Christ.

The list goes on and on. Faith and love are the law of GOD, and they always have been, even if the letters of the law make it look to the carnal mind that they aren't.
 
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Actually, it boils down to two Great Commandments...

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These two Great Commandments are the brief comprehension of the Ten Commandments. You know, the Law that Paul established...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
We establish the law by actually keeping it as it is meant to be kept: faith in GOD and love of the brethren.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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No it means that when we keep these 2 commandments, we have kept everything required by the 10 commandments. You place the letter above the spirit. The spirit wrote the letter. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. You basically are saying that the 2 greatest commandments hang on the 10 lesser commandments.
The two Great Commandments are the summary of the Ten Commandments, just as they are the summary of the statutes and judgments. What we find is that the overriding Law is Love.

Can you give me some details?

Yes, the Law of Love is really Love God and Love your neighbor.

Can you give me some details?

Yes, Love God is explained in the first four Commandments. Love your neighbor in the last six.

Can you give me some details?

Yes, the statutes and judgments explaine the nuances of the Commandments.

This is why Christ says this...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
 
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Are you a part of the Covenant ratified in Yahshua's blood? If so how can you be in such oppisition to the thing that is written on the hearts of those who are a part of Yahweh's Salvation to mankind?
I am only in opposition to those who teach that the letters of the law are greater than the law itself. The law written in our hearts is just figurative language for the indwelling holy spirit, which continually gives the righteousness of GOD that the letters of the law demand.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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We establish the law by actually keeping it as it is meant to be kept: faith in GOD and love of the brethren.
So, help me out here, can we keep it in the Spirit if we are breaking the letter of the Law? Try that defense in a court of law some time. It won't work there anymore than it will work in the court of the Most High...

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ - NKJV
 
Sep 4, 2012
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The two Great Commandments are the summary of the Ten Commandments, just as they are the summary of the statutes and judgments. What we find is that the overriding Law is Love.

Can you give me some details?

Yes, the Law of Love is really Love God and Love your neighbor.

Can you give me some details?

Yes, Love God is explained in the first four Commandments. Love your neighbor in the last six.

Can you give me some details?

Yes, the statutes and judgments explaine the nuances of the Commandments.

This is why Christ says this...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
But all of this can only be obeyed and realized through faith in GOD and the love of GOD. Thus these are the two overriding commandments that fulfill everything described in, and commanded by, the letters of the law.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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I am only in opposition to those who teach that the letters of the law are greater than the law itself. The law written in our hearts is just figurative language for the indwelling holy spirit, which continually gives the righteousness of GOD that the letters of the law demand.
No, it is exactly what God says it is. Those who have the Law written in their hearts will obey from the heart. They will not have other God's before God. They will not bow down to idols. They will hallow the name of God. etc.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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But all of this can only be obeyed and realized through faith in GOD and the love of GOD. Thus these are the two overriding commandments that fulfill everything described in, and commanded by, the letters of the law.
And on this we fully agree. Israel could not keep the Law of God, they did not have the heart to...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

But we can obey from the heart...

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

We, by faith, can obey and do the things that are pleasing to God...

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.


We may not be as far apart on this as it seems.
 
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And on this we fully agree. Israel could not keep the Law of God, they did not have the heart to...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

But we can obey from the heart...

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

We, by faith, can obey and do the things that are pleasing to God...

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.


We may not be as far apart on this as it seems.
But Peter himself said that the law of Moses was an impossible burden to keep, and said that those who teach the law of Moses must be kept are provoking GOD.

So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke [of the law of Moses] that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.” Acts 15:10-11​
 
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