What Laws are still valid to christians

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You could apply Pascal's wager on following the law. There is so much evidence that points to the law being valid today. Jesus telling his followers to learn the law from the Pharisees (do as they say not do). The apostles continued to follow the law long after Jesus ascended. (Peter referring to unclean meat) What if you got it wrong when it comes to the law ?
What if we are wrong? Then we can thank God even more for Grace.

Then again, Would it even matter. We have zero % chance of fulfilling the law. so I am still baffled at how many people want to praise themselves as being law keepers. instead of maturing in Christ.

A true Child of God would understand the law can't save them, and if they are looking to what God wants them to do. they would not break even the questionable laws now would they?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No one can keep the law that is correct. We still need the grace of God to get to heaven but we also need to attempt to keep the law. It is what all the prophets did. Jesus is a good example in keeping the law.

Thats the point, Jesus did not try to keep it. He did what God wanted. and since he was ALWAYS in the will of God. the law was fulfilled.

He showed us what the law could not do. How to be more righteous than the pharisees, not by keeping the law, but by following God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Is this from theology or from the Bible?
it is from scripture.

the law, also called mosaic law. also called the law of moses. when any of these terms are used. it speaks of the whole. not the part..

 
Jun 30, 2011
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Law of Love - Godliness is loving - hmm - Love God Love people - sum of the commands - do we honestly believe here in the Holy Spirit and His work in us?
 
Y

Yury

Guest
I wrote that down in previous post.

Yes, that's right, but trying fulfill the law we haw a chance:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Absolutely not! Certainly, I would not have known sin *except*through the law. For indeed I would not have known what it means to desire somethingbelonging to someone else if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”

because:

Rom 3:20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law, because the knowledge of sin comes through the law.
but next post I just corrected myself. Instead of saying 'we haw a chance' I said 'we have a chance'. I hope that does make sense of what I said.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Hmmm, sounds real good except it is not what scripture says...

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul wrote this twenty some years after his conversion. He says that he was still fighting the battle.[/
QUOTE]
24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
looks like verse 24 and 25 gives the answer.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I wrote that down in previous post.



but next post I just corrected myself. Instead of saying 'we haw a chance' I said 'we have a chance'. I hope that does make sense of what I said.
Yeah I saw the mistake. I still do not understand though.

If we TRY to obey the law. We have a chance.

again, a chance at what?
 
Jun 30, 2011
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Love Debt - Voddie Baucham - YouTube

on Love Debts we have to alll



this tore me up
Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments"You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Hmmm, sounds real good except it is not what scripture says...

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul wrote this twenty some years after his conversion. He says that he was still fighting the battle.[/
QUOTE]
24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
looks like verse 24 and 25 gives the answer.
It is the answer, but to say that a converted person never has thoughts contrary to the Commandments is naive at the very least. Paul admitted to such thoughts after over twenty years of conversion, so to tell me a real Christian never has thoughts (and/or actions) of sin is completely inaccurate.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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How can we tell when we're being led by the Spirit and when we're being led by our own flesh?
Some believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry, because they feel a love and dedication toward each other. What would you say to them? And,
without looking to the Bible to tell us what to do (a written code), how can we as believers lay down our sense of self in favor of
what God wants us to do?

These questions have confused me for a long time.
My very nature leaves no doubt within me that homosexuality is contrary to God's creation order.
Ro 1:26-27 confirms it.

The Scripture says God created them Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

I don't need a written regulation to tell me, when it's written all over my nature (heart), that the practice
of homosexuality is contrary to God, just as God's other moral laws are written all over my heart.
 
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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Who says the bible, or more specifically the OT, isn't useful for edification and instruction? I think most every Christian would agree on that.
It's within the context that the Spirit writes God's law on the heart of the believer, freeing them
from the written code of the Mosaic law with its curse (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10).
 
Jan 27, 2013
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It is the answer, but to say that a converted person never has thoughts contrary to the Commandments is naive at the very least. Paul admitted to such thoughts after over twenty years of conversion, so to tell me a real Christian never has thoughts (and/or actions) of sin is completely inaccurate.
if the answer is jesus, what commands. what is a real christain. the sin will always fight, given it has a hold on you, because it gets it power from the law. we real christain get power from jesus, and are guided by his spirit.
when you look at law as a guide then your naive.
but i understand ware your coming from, because learning to stand firm in the fath, is a battle in it self.
 
Y

Yury

Guest
Yeah I saw the mistake. I still do not understand though.
If we TRY to obey the law. We have a chance.
again, a chance at what?
Oh, now I get it. Sorry my bad. I was ambiguous.
Okay, I just wanted to say that the same as a Apostle Paul learned what is sin are through the Law - as he said -

Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Absolutely not! Certainly, I would not have known sin *except*through the law. For indeed I would not have known what it means to desire somethingbelonging to someone else if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”

- so just as well we can learn through the Law.

That was my point. Thus, the whole Scripture, including the Law, can be performe all those functions as Paul said that:

2Tim 3:16-17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God,
and [is] profitable for
doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I hope that is helpful.
Best regards, Yury.
 

Galatians2-20

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2013
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Who says the bible, or more specifically the OT, isn't useful for edification and instruction? I think most every Christian would agree on that.
Agreed. I don't have a problem with the OT either. Neither do I have a problem with people wanting to obey the moral law just as long as their motivation to do so is love for the Lord that results in a sincere desire to live a life pleasing to Him and not some warped sense of trying to earn salvation.

In the words of an old mentor of mine; "Obedience to the moral law only appears as legalism to those who are not motivated by love."

:)
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Messiahs words are very clear:

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

Iniquity is Word #458 from word #459, Greek Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning not subject to (Yahweh's) Laws, transgressor.

Iniquity is anomos/amonia in greek

a = without

nomos = Law

we and up with, "I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice without Law."

Mattithayh 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
 
Feb 9, 2010
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The laws that are still valid today to the Christian are moral laws that are laws of love.The New Testament says that love is the fulfilling of the law.

The Bible says that Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing it to His cross because they could never provide spiritual salvation.Therefore let no man judge you in meats,drinks,respect of holy days,new moons,or sabbath days,which means they cannot tell you to keep them because Jesus took them out of the way.

But the moral laws Jesus did not take away for they cannot be taken away for they are moral laws,laws of love to love God and people.

This includes the 10 commandments for they are moral laws,laws of love towards God and people.

Paul said we do not do away with the law but we establish it.

Everybody has to fulfill the law like Christ which love is the fulfilling of the law which we can do by the Holy Spirit.
 

Galatians2-20

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2013
261
19
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Thats the point, Jesus did not try to keep it. He did what God wanted. and since he was ALWAYS in the will of God. the law was fulfilled.

He showed us what the law could not do. How to be more righteous than the pharisees, not by keeping the law, but by following God.



Jesus was a devout Jew, of course He kept the law of Moses and there examples of such in scripture. What Jesus did not keep was the traditions of Pharisees found in the Talmud such as the ceremonial washing of hands before eating, etc. However, Jesus did more than "keep the law". He fulfilled it and continues to fulfill it to this very in day in those who choose to walk by His Spirit and not the flesh.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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The laws that are still valid today to the Christian are moral laws that are laws of love.The New Testament says that love is the fulfilling of the law.

The Bible says that Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing it to His cross because they could never provide spiritual salvation.Therefore let no man judge you in meats,drinks,respect of holy days,new moons,or sabbath days,which means they cannot tell you to keep them because Jesus took them out of the way.
Colossians 2:16-23, "16Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God.20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh."

I think we have v16 down, I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul (Paul) in nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT writers.

20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?

So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.

21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle

the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a child in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.

22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,

So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."

23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.

Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"

you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc

the jews did make their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh hashanna and more. when they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the jews.

But the moral laws Jesus did not take away for they cannot be taken away for they are moral laws,laws of love to love God and people.

This includes the 10 commandments for they are moral laws,laws of love towards God and people.

Paul said we do not do away with the law but we establish it.

Everybody has to fulfill the law like Christ which love is the fulfilling of the law which we can do by the Holy Spirit.
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might(Deut 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself(Lev 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:

Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
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Hmmm, sounds real good except it is not what scripture says...

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul wrote this twenty some years after his conversion. He says that he was still fighting the battle.
That whole Chapter is about separating the Flesh and the Spirit of God: Being dead to flesh, and alive to God in the Spirit of God, through the operation of God, that began at belief