What Laws are still valid to christians

[2Thewaters]

The law of love is still valid to christians

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:


Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


if you loved your neighbor would you steal from him?
Thou shalt not steal.
If you loved your neighbor would you fornicate with his wife when he was gone?
Thou shalt not commit adultery
if you loved your neighbor would you go kill him?
Thou shalt not kill.
If you loved your mother and father, would you dishonor them?
honor your father and mother
if you loved yourself would you covet and spend money for the childrens clothes and schooling to buy an iphone?
thou shalt not covet.

Jesus said to someone who wanted to get into heaven
what shall I do?
he said keep the law of love
dont kill steal commit adultery etc.

No chritian will go to heaven if he kills steals lies commits adultery fornicates and dishonors his mother and father

so the new gospel you dont have to keep the law means you dont have to love anyone is false.

Jesus said:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

some christians say to fulfill is to destroy it

so they say Jesus said this:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to destroy.
makes no sense at all

fulfill means to keep it perfectly
Follow me
read the gospels and see how he lived.
follow me.

after Jesus diead, rose and went to heaven Paul taught this:
1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

and they won't if they do not repent (change their life)

 

[2Thewaters]

I hope we dont get banned from this website by posting a bible verse
(hope)
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

so just to let you know I was part of a church that taught all you had to do is confess Jesus is your savior from sin and then you are saved and you can keep on sinning.
Sounded real good.
but it really bothered me
then I read the Bible and found that is the doctrine of the nicolaitians
Righteousness by presumption. instead of what Jesus taught
REPENT (change your nlife and habits) for the kingdom of love is at hand!
John Baptist also taught this
so that is what I teach.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sure that the arguments on this thread will never be resolved. I've seen it before in a thread that had over one thousand posts. And the beat goes on. If there is a division in the ranks, then there is a division between the sheep and the goats. That scares me. I suppose that's the fear of the Lord.

Hebrews 4:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Psalm 95:7-11 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Put it together. All included.

yes let us put it together.

1. What does scripture say about us? we are sinful. there is no good in us. we all have sinned and fallen short of Gods standard.
2. What is Gods standard? The law
3. We have failed to live up to this standard. are failing to live up to it, and will never live up to it.
4. What is the penalty for falling short? We Owe God death
5. What then, can be the ONLY payment for sin which will appease God (propitation)? The death of his son.

So. Looking at all of these facts. Why do people continue to say we must earn salvation by TRYING to be good? When scripture is clear. no matter how good we are. we will never be good enough.

Scripture says even gentiles, who were not given the law, do what is right by the law (God wrote it in their hearts) the problem is they did not believe in God. they chose to obey what THEY deemed was morally right and morrally wrong, thus in doing good. it was still evil in Gods sight, and still worthy of Condemnation (bloody rags)

so would it surprise us that those trying to obey God to be saved (or not lose salvation) are no different than these gentiles who do not even believe in God? No. why>? because it is still self focused.

Even those of us who are born again can do good for the wrong reasons. To us it is sin, because it is self motivated, not motivated by following the spirit. Those who follow the spirit do not live sinfull live. not because they obey the law. or are trying to obey it. But because their mind is focused on the things of God. Not focused on trying to be good.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hope we dont get banned from this website by posting a bible verse
(hope)
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

so just to let you know I was part of a church that taught all you had to do is confess Jesus is your savior from sin and then you are saved and you can keep on sinning.
Sounded real good.
but it really bothered me
then I read the Bible and found that is the doctrine of the nicolaitians
Righteousness by presumption. instead of what Jesus taught
REPENT (change your nlife and habits) for the kingdom of love is at hand!
John Baptist also taught this
so that is what I teach.

Mind telling us what church or denomination this is? I have yet to see any church say this.. Are you sure you understood them correctly?

if they are teaching this, they teach a licentious gospel. Which is not of God. but the legalism you see taught here is just as dangerous. as both are false gospels set up to praise self (they are bothed based on pride) and not based on Christ.

 

[Elin]

Galatians 5:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Speaking of Paul:

We are no longer under the law of Moses but are under the law of Christ, which is the law of God for the NT believer (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).

The law of Christ is the law of love (Mt 22:37-39; Ro 13:8-10) written on the heart of the NT believer, and which fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10), but with no curse attached (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10) for not keeping "every word."

Those in Christ, on whose hearts the Holy Spirit writes the law, do not need a written code to know how to love, any more than a mother needs a written code to know not to let her child play in the street, or go out into the cold without his coat, or. . .

You're gonna' have to decide if you believe the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the writers of the NT, in which light all Scripture is now to be understood, and in which light the Mosaic law is correctly understood.

You're gonna' have to decide if you are going to be a NT Christian, or some other kind of Christian.

 

[royalscot]

Galatians 5:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.



Here are the instructions, or (hear the instructions) of how to love your neighbor. God describes and identifies an attitude we are to have toward others.

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. 7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9“A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!Galatians 5

you missed these verses and go to law give to moses again. yet still quote the latter of the chapter.

Leviticus 19:1-18 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
[SUP]2[/SUP]Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, ye shall offer it at your own will.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the LORD: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.[/QUOTE

speaking to who underlined by 2.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. again in the same chapter

 

[just-me]

So. Looking at all of these facts. Why do people continue to say we must earn salvation by TRYING to be good? When scripture is clear. no matter how good we are. we will never be good enough.

Scripture says even gentiles, who were not given the law, do what is right by the law (God wrote it in their hearts) the problem is they did not believe in God. they chose to obey what THEY deemed was morally right and morrally wrong, thus in doing good. it was still evil in Gods sight, and still worthy of Condemnation (bloody rags)

so would it surprise us that those trying to obey God to be saved (or not lose salvation) are no different than these gentiles who do not even believe in God? No. why>? because it is still self focused.

In all honesty, I haven't seen people saying that we are to earn our salvation in CC. Maybe you have determined that's what they are saying, but I haven't noticed that blatant ridiculous comment. To be obedient to our Creator, and Lord of Lords, doesn't give us the right to say "we can't keep God's law so let's just neglect it because we are in the final and New Covenant now."

Refering to the scripture you presented in Romans. Romans 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, *do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I researched that, for it is used quite often in the forum. Keep in mind that Paul is ministering to the gentiles, so he is speaking to the gentiles about the gentiles. That should pose a question in our minds. He is talking to the saved about the unsaved. According to what I have found it would read (as we talk today) like this.

For whenever the unsaved, who have no teaching, naturally (being the physical aspects of survival) abide by the teachings (even though they don’t have them) keep those principles taught in the law.

The key phrase that is usually missed is *"do by nature." That is to clarify the natural aspects rather than the Spiritual.

Jeremiah 31:35-36 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In all honesty, I haven't seen people saying that we are to earn our salvation in CC. Maybe you have determined that's what they are saying, but I haven't noticed that blatant ridiculous comment. To be obedient to our Creator, and Lord of Lords, doesn't give us the right to say "we can't keep God's law so let's just neglect it because we are in the final and New Covenant now."

Of course you can't see it. They agree with your twisted view that we MUST obey Gods law. So you ignore the fact they claim one can lose salvation if they do not do it. And thus, in reality, Claim to say the very thing you claim you have never seen in Christian Chat.

And you continue you blindness by saying people claim we can neglect Gods law in the NT. when in reality NO ONE is claiming this.

There is a difference in saying the law can not save us, Nor make us righteous. And saying we can neglect it.. But you can;t see this because of your continued blindness. Sorry to be so blunt, But I see no other way to understand your blindness in both issues.

Refering to the scripture you presented in Romans. Romans 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, *do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I researched that, for it is used quite often in the forum. Keep in mind that Paul is ministering to the gentiles, so he is speaking to the gentiles about the gentiles.

lol.. You need to study more. Many jews were in the roman church. Not just Gentiles. If he was speaking to gentiles as gentiles, he would have used different words. He is speaking to these jews. This is proven in vs 17 : [SUP]17 [/SUP]Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Now, if your going to try to prove me wrong. you could at least study some. Your not going to win any browny points by making such HUGE mistakes.

That should pose a question in our minds. He is talking to the saved about the unsaved. According to what I have found it would read (as we talk today) like this.

For whenever the unsaved, who have no teaching, naturally (being the physical aspects of survival) abide by the teachings (even though they don’t have them) keep those principles taught in the law.

The key phrase that is usually missed is *"do by nature." That is to clarify the natural aspects rather than the Spiritual.

Again, If your going to make assumptions, you should read the whole passage, and not distort the passage to your own belief.

He is speaking to JEWS. Trying to ADD law to grace.. Do not judge is the context. For all people will be judged. whether they have the law or not..

Jeremiah 31:35-36 (KJV)

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Not sure what Israel, being a nation, has anything to do with this conversation

 

[just-me]

Of course you can't see it. They agree with your twisted view that we MUST obey Gods law. So you ignore the fact they claim one can lose salvation if they do not do it. And thus, in reality, Claim to say the very thing you claim you have never seen in Christian Chat.

My twisted view? You know I’ve never said, or endorsed that we MUST or are even capable of keeping the law

And you continue you blindness by saying people claim we can neglect Gods law in the NT. when in reality NO ONE is claiming this.

I fail to see the difference in the Old Testament law and the New Testament law for Jesus said He did nothing of Himself except what He was told by the giver of the law.

There is a difference in saying the law can not save us, Nor make us righteous. And saying we can neglect it.. But you can;t see this because of your continued blindness. Sorry to be so blunt, But I see no other way to understand your blindness in both issues.

Your adversarial attitude is blunt for sure. Are you telling me that my blindness is teaching that if one doesn’t obey the Mosaic Law in detail that they will forever be lost? The Bible doesn’t say that.

lol.. You need to study more. Many jews were in the roman church. Not just Gentiles. If he was speaking to gentiles as gentiles, he would have used different words. He is speaking to these jews. This is proven in vs 17 : [SUP]17[/SUP] Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

I admit the oversight, but I was addressing the aspect of believers and non-believers, not necessarily the difference between Jews and gentiles. My mistake. Paul was anointed to minister to the Gentiles and incorporating verse 17 is very good to see the over all picture. Thank you for pointing that out. So let’s incorporate verse 18 also

Romans 2:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest (comfortable or lean on) in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

Now Paul is mentioning the law in verse 18, and doesn’t say it’s wrong for them to be instructed by it, and neither do I. However, your assumptions (In your first quote) that I teach, endorse, or write the "Twisted" things you accuse me of are totally out of line, for I do not. So I will let the readers of this post determine what kind of people you and I really are.

2 Timothy 3:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without *natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
There’s that word “*natural” again
The point I was bringing that the Gentiles didn’t have anything but their own way of living to lean on or to be comfortable with. Thanks for pointing out that He was writing to the Jews in the letter to Rome. My oversight.

Now, if your going to try to prove me wrong. you could at least study some. Your not going to win any browny points by making such HUGE mistakes.

I’m not into the brownie points. I would also say you are not winning many of those either by your spiteful rhetoric.

Again, If your going to make assumptions, you should read the whole passage, and not distort the passage to your own belief.

Ephesians 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

He is speaking to JEWS. Trying to ADD law to grace.. Do not judge is the context. For all people will be judged. whether they have the law or not..

Romans 1:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Not sure what Israel, being a nation, has anything to do with this conversation

It has everything to do with the law of creation. I suggest you study more as you have exhorted me to do. May God bless you in all wisdom, and understanding. Amen

 

[just-me]

Refering to the scripture you presented in Romans. Romans 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, *do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I researched that, for it is used quite often in the forum. Keep in mind that Paul is ministering to the gentiles, so he is speaking to the gentiles about the gentiles. That should pose a question in our minds. He is talking to the saved about the unsaved. According to what I have found it would read (as we talk today) like this.

For whenever the unsaved, who have no teaching, naturally (being the physical aspects of survival) abide by the teachings (even though they don’t have them) keep those principles taught in the law.

This was a mistake of mine that Eternallygratful pointed out to me in post #887. He brought it to my attention in post# 888. I repent!
I made an attempt to clarify that as I was concentrating on saved and unsaved, not necessarily Jews and non-Jews.

 

[danschance]

Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. Ex. 31:16

This says the Sabbath shall remain forever. This is what sabatarians want us to think as well.

Let's see how this is applied.

12For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Gen 17:12_13

God declares circumcision is forever in the exact same fashion as Sabath was declared to be forever.

Forever?

1It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Gal.5:1-4 (See also Romans 2:29)

Paul claims we are not to practice circumcision even though in Gen17:12-13 God had claimed it would forever? Is this is contradiction? No, Jesus came to fulfill the law, not do away with it. Instead of having a foreskin removed from a penis, God requires the old man to be removed from our heart and this still stands.

The same applies to the Sabbath. Instead of resting on Saturday, we know take rest in Christ. So in essence, circumcision and the Sabbath still applies but in different ways. Those who cling to the mosaic laws and grace will be cut off from Christ (Gal. 5:1-4).

 

[just-me]

Paul claims we are not to practice circumcision even though in Gen17:12-13 God had claimed it would forever? Is this is contradiction? No, Jesus came to fulfill the law, not do away with it. Instead of having a foreskin removed from a penis, God requires the old man to be removed from our heart and this still stands.

The same applies to the Sabbath. Instead of resting on Saturday, we know take rest in Christ. So in essence, circumcision and the Sabbath still applies but in different ways. Those who cling to the mosaic laws and grace will be cut off from Christ (Gal. 5:1-4).

You nailed it right. As Christians, we live by the Spiritual understanding of the law. Without the Spirit we cannot understand the truth God has ordained from the very beginning. AMEN

 

[just-me]

Actually the circumcision of the heart is Old Testament law confirmed by Paul who was not against the law if it is handled as God originally intended it to be.
1 Timothy 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Romans 2:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Hebrews 10:27-29 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My twisted view? You know I’ve never said, or endorsed that we MUST or are even capable of keeping the law

You have been teaching law since you came in hear. And you agree with everyone who teaches it, Whether they believe it is for salvation or not..

And once again, You fail to speak to the jist of my argument, Thus ignoring everything which would show I am correct.. Why do you always do this?

I fail to see the difference in the Old Testament law and the New Testament law for Jesus said He did nothing of Himself except what He was told by the giver of the law.

Thats not the point, The point is you do not understand why the law was given. And what it is supposed to do.. You think it makes you Holy, When it can not. And the OT law is hugely different from the NT. There are only two laws in the NT. The law of faith and the law of love. Doing these two commands. One will not break the OT laws. But again, You fail to see this.

Your adversarial attitude is blunt for sure. Are you telling me that my blindness is teaching that if one doesn’t obey the Mosaic Law in detail that they will forever be lost? The Bible doesn’t say that.

Yet there are people here who would not agree with you. And you blindly say they do not. So you just proved my point.

And yet you continue to say people neglect the law. When no one does. (except the licentious. of which i do nto see any here) I was trying to show you the difference, But i guess you took it personally.

I admit the oversight, but I was addressing the aspect of believers and non-believers, not necessarily the difference between Jews and gentiles. My mistake. Paul was anointed to minister to the Gentiles and incorporating verse 17 is very good to see the over all picture. Thank you for pointing that out. So let’s incorporate verse 18 also

Romans 2:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest (comfortable or lean on) in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

Now Paul is mentioning the law in verse 18, and doesn’t say it’s wrong for them to be instructed by it, and neither do I. However, your assumptions (In your first quote) that I teach, endorse, or write the "Twisted" things you accuse me of are totally out of line, for I do not. So I will let the readers of this post determine what kind of people you and I really are.

Yet again, you did not read further.

24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,”

Why is it blasphemed? They preach and judge by the law. When they themselves are judged as lawbreakers. They are hypocrites. And instead of preaching the gospel of love and grace, they preach the law Just like many legalistic churches have done since pauls day. because they teach law and not grace.

I’m not into the brownie points. I would also say you are not winning many of those either by your spiteful rhetoric.

I Am just frustrated at the blindness of people. They claim people do not teach law for salvation when they obviously do. They claim others disregard the law when they do not. It gets old!

It would be one thing if you would also chasten those trying to use law to get saved, or keep from losing it, But you don't. You stick up for them, and claim they do not teach it, Which if we look deep down inside, we both know is not true.

Ephesians 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:



Romans 1:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.


It has everything to do with the law of creation. I suggest you study more as you have exhorted me to do. May God bless you in all wisdom, and understanding. Amen

May God bless us both. And we see what is really happening.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This was a mistake of mine that Eternallygratful pointed out to me in post #887. He brought it to my attention in post# 888. I repent!
I made an attempt to clarify that as I was concentrating on saved and unsaved, not necessarily Jews and non-Jews.

I understand this. But I do not think this is what paul was trying to differentiate, He was calling legalistic jews out for trying to add to the gospel of Grace. As shown in later verses. Can you see this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can these people who are teaching law answer one simple question?

How does a person not commit adultry by the following the law of moses?

 

[Kerry]

Can these people who are teaching law answer one simple question?

How does a person not commit adultry by the following the law of moses?

Better yet how is a person free from sin by following law. All the law was meant for was to expose sin and provided no remedy. Only the cross can provide or did Jesus waste His time if we can do it on our own. The agony and whipping and beating He took was in vain if we can do it ourself.

 

[just-me]

Can these people who are teaching law answer one simple question?

How does a person not commit adultry by the following the law of moses?

Spiritual adultery, and serving other God's. People are do that even today. I think Baal was one of them in the OT. Making God in our own image, and so on. God's law is against that.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Deuteronomy 4:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Romans 1:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

 

[just-me]

Scripture says even gentiles, who were not given the law, do what is right by the law (God wrote it in their hearts) the problem is they did not believe in God. they chose to obey what THEY deemed was morally right and morrally wrong, thus in doing good. it was still evil in Gods sight, and still worthy of Condemnation (bloody rags)
so would it surprise us that those trying to obey God to be saved (or not lose salvation) are no different than these gentiles who do not even believe in God? No. why>? because it is still self focused.

I understand this. But I do not think this is what paul was trying to differentiate, He was calling legalistic jews out for trying to add to the gospel of Grace. As shown in later verses. Can you see this?

So are you saying whether a person is saved or not, by esteeming the law as good and Spiritual, doesn't make a difference, and the law is equally as useless to the believer as it is to the unbeliever?

 

[just-me]

Speaking of Paul:

We are no longer under the law of Moses but are under the law of Christ, which is the law of God for the NT believer (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).

The law of Christ is the law of love (Mt 22:37-39; Ro 13:8-10) written on the heart of the NT believer, and which fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10), but with no curse attached (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10) for not keeping "every word."

Those in Christ, on whose hearts the Holy Spirit writes the law, do not need a written code to know how to love, any more than a mother needs a written code to know not to let her child play in the street, or go out into the cold without his coat, or. . .

You're gonna' have to decide if you believe the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the writers of the NT, in which light all Scripture is now to be understood, and in which light the Mosaic law is correctly understood.

You're gonna' have to decide if you are going to be a NT Christian, or some other kind of Christian.

Why is it so hard for people to understand the Spiritual aspects of the law through the grace of Jesus Christ. I really don't understand that. Just because I revere the law doesn't mean I am endorsing it for people to be under it's condemnation as if I wanted God to damn everybody I say anything to. If Paul says that it is Spiritual, then I agree with him. It's good, it's holy. So is all that is Christ Jesus. I don't get where people come up with derogatory labels when I say such things.